Skythian/Saka or Parthians

michaelguth · Post by **michaelguth** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:26 am

Playing in an early period tournament, Rise of Rome and Immortal Fire lists 800 points. which would you play with, Skythian/Saka or Parthian. Both armies would start with a core of light horse, 10 or 12 battlegroups of 4. The Skythian/Saka have light horse with bow/swordsmen. The Parthians are bow only.

Both armies can have either superior lancers/swordsmen armored, or upgrades to cataphracts. The Skythian/Saka are limited to 12 elements of heavier cavalry total.

Neither army has much in the way of infantry, either can get some medium foot with bow or light spear to contest bad going. One theory though regarding light horse armies is that it is better to find clear terrain to fight in than to try to contest the brush....

Opinions welcome.

Mike Guth

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:37 am

skythian if you like predominantly shooting and manuver.

Parthian if you want the abilty to smash directly forward.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:33 am

With Parthian you can have 6 BGs of poor LF. Gives you a big army for few extra points.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:35 am

Actually you can have 5 BGs of poor LF with Skythian also.

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:08 am

While the poor LF is tempting it restricts your room for manouvre. Fine if you want to slug, less so if you want to float... I know I have tried floating and the LF just become cheap VPs to your opponent.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Both armies are actually very, very different.

Parthian Light Horse is Bow only. The majority of LH you will come across will be Bow, Sword. What this means is that you will never be able to stand toe to toe with any other light horse - so when your Cataphracts fight, they will need to fight unsupported. This is not necessarily a bad thing - but one that is often difficult for players to realise. They often tend to try and re-inforce failure when the cataphracts aren't winning.

Skythian can have either Cav (Bow, Swd), Cav (Lance) or Cataphracts. I would advise Cav with Lance. Your Bw, Swd Light Horse are in sufficient numbers to dominate other skirmishers and simply use the Lancers as the coup de gras.

I would advise to take lot's of Poor Light Foot with both armies to bulk them up. They need to be used CAREFULLY. In the right place at the right time they are still very, very useful. However, in the wrong place or at the wrong time they can be walking Attrition Points....

There are other options of course - Early Sarmation and Bosporan. Both of these have slightly different flavours, whilst being predominately Lancer Cav and Light Horse.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:49 pm

dave_r wrote:Both armies are actually very, very different.
....

I would advise to take lot's of Poor Light Foot with both armies to bulk them up. They need to be used CAREFULLY. In the right place at the right time they are still very, very useful. However, in the wrong place or at the wrong time they can be walking Attrition Points....
.

So is the right place for the poor Light Foot where they can provide extra shooting and screening or is it wherever you need to be able to teleport your more important units

.

Chris

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:18 pm

Both options are good

michaelguth · Post by **michaelguth** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:11 pm

I used Saka with a couple of units of Cataphracts, just for fun, they haven't ever been in a battle, and many groups of light horse bow/sword. My opponent showed up with HYW English masquerading as Persian. I had trouble staying away from his bow armed foot, but eventually got around his three light cavalry units guarding his flank. This despite his winning the terrain roll and gumming up the flank. STill, in 3 hours I could only kill three units, and was about to lose a Cataphract unit to the massed bow fire on my flank.

Thanks for the advice!

Are there any armies with armored light cavalry?>???

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:19 pm

Some later armies get protected light horse. I'm not aware of any horse archer ones that do but haven't looked extensively.

One disadvantage of cataphracts versus armored cavalry lancers is that they have a lot harder time staying or getting out of trouble.

Chris

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:49 pm

Are there any armies with armored light cavalry?

Santa Hermandad Nueva Castilian.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:50 pm

dave_r wrote:
Are there any armies with armored light cavalry?
Santa Hermandad Nueva Castilian.

True but in general there is not a lot of point in armoured light horse. It only makes a difference in melee after all and the vast majority of things you want to be in melee with whey you are light horse are unprotected.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:39 pm

hammy wrote:
dave_r wrote:
Are there any armies with armored light cavalry?
Santa Hermandad Nueva Castilian.
True but in general there is not a lot of point in armoured light horse. It only makes a difference in melee after all and the vast majority of things you want to be in melee with whey you are light horse are unprotected.

Especially since in this case the Ginettes don't get Sword for melee. Protect LH or Unprotected LH with sword are effectively as good and cheaper.

Chris