Chariots in Swifter than Eagles

[Decoucy2]

Ok - so i've been very much enjoying both FOG II and FOG II Medieval. Having had a long-standing interest in the high bronze age I was very much looking forward to the release of Swifter than Eagles. Having played Swifter than Eagles (STE) now for a while, I've very much enjoyed it as well, but I do have a few questions.

The main issue raised by STE is in the army lists. Almost every serious study of high bronze age chariots tends to argue that they followed the Mittanian model (i.e. they were primarily armoured horse archers). This applies to Mitanni, Kassite Babylon, the Middle Assyrian Empire, Syrian and Canaanite principalities, Egypt, Hatti, the Luwians, and the Myceneans (Drews, 1993; Lorenze and Schrakamp, 2011; Wernick, 2013; and many many more). However, the STE army lists provide spear armed chariots for Myceneans, Luwians, and Hittites.

While I can see a case from a game perspective - in terms of providing more variety - in giving some army lists spear armed chariots, making this the only option available to these lists seems odd given that the apparent bulk of the available evidence tilts very strongly towards all of the high bronze age palace cultures deploying bow armed chariots presumably used in a very similar way. We know that both the Mycenean and Hittite written records record stores of arrows alongside chariot parts and where we have written accounts of chariot training or the deeds of kings we often have reference to bows. Most high bronze age royal iconography in Anatolia shows the king with a bow - not to mention the questionable physics of spear equipped chariots in the first place (Wernick, 2013).

I'd like to see an option - or alternative set of lists - that allow for the Mycenean, Luwian, and Hittite Imperial lists to deploy bow-armed chariots in place of the - probably mythical - spear armed Anatolian light chariot or heavy Mycenean/Hittite chariot.

Cheers,
De Coucy

[rbodleyscott]

We acknowledge that we have deliberately gone with older interpretations (based on contemporary depictions) in the interest of tactical variety. (In a period where there would otherwise be relatively little if we went with the more recent interpretations).

If anyone makes a mod using the later interpretations, we will be happy to make it available for in-game download.

At its simplest such a mod could merely entail a modded ArmyList.txt file with all those spear-armed chariots replaced by Mitan_L_Char. (Called "Maryannu Light Chariots" in game).

[Joch1955]

I have also been playing the Swifter than Eagles DLC a lot since I have always had an interest in the Hittites. Considering the Hittites completely disappeared from history for almost 3000 years and even now, the documentary evidence is still fragmentary and evolving, I would rather keep the player’s options open as to what may or may not have been available. That said, if someone does a Hittite army list mod, I would try it.

Note the bow equipped “Maryannu Light Chariot” is already available to the Hittites in Custom battles and I tend to pick those since they much more flexible than the spear armed “Anatolian Light Chariots”.

p.s. - I have to admit I never thought I would be involved in a grog discussion about the composition of Hittite armies.

[Ray552]

De Coucy,

Thanks for a very interesting post - I'd wondered in passing about the mechanics of using a thrusting (not a throwing) spear from a chariot, but your mention of Wernick's article was illuminating:

"K(no)w More Spears From The Backs Of Chariots: Problems With The Battle Of Kadesh’s Thrusting Spears - egyptianexpedition.org (page has a link to a downloadble .pdf)