Give it up

[Laboratorium]

I tried a couple of hours more. But the UI sucks, the mechanics are not intuitive, the starting positions suck, all nations consume much more gold and manpower than they have and there is no clear intuitive way to deal with it.

Maybe dismantle army?

So after a couple of turns the armies vanish...

Compared to the time on spending on the actual turns computing takes longer... So it is most wait for the game to compute without anything interesting happening.

The game turns black if you hit the range of the map...
It is not ready for any release and obviously a bad idea in the first place.

There is no medieval title, that does not beat this game, I know off. From Midieval Total War 2 to Europa Univeraslis, Crussader Kings, Civilization, kinghts of Honor... All beat this easily.

I will now uninstall and let it be the last Slitherine game I will buy in the future.
Have fun, if you really like it. Some people are weird in their tastes.

[Patrat]

I'll grant you that the UI is a bit clunky, but as for the rest, it sounds like you haven't taken the time to learn the game. I've never even opened the manual, I just watched a couple YouTube videos and started playing it. I'm loving it so far. This game corrects many of the flaws in Empires. In which it was way to easy to paint the map.

It also sounds like you might have some computer issues. I have a middling computer and the game runs just fine on it.

[SuitedQueens]

I tried a couple of hours more. But the UI sucks, the mechanics are not intuitive, the starting positions suck, all nations consume much more gold and manpower than they have and there is no clear intuitive way to deal with it.

Maybe dismantle army?

So after a couple of turns the armies vanish...

Compared to the time on spending on the actual turns computing takes longer... So it is most wait for the game to compute without anything interesting happening.

The game turns black if you hit the range of the map...
It is not ready for any release and obviously a bad idea in the first place.

There is no medieval title, that does not beat this game, I know off. From Midieval Total War 2 to Europa Univeraslis, Crussader Kings, Civilization, kinghts of Honor... All beat this easily.

I will now uninstall and let it be the last Slitherine game I will buy in the future.
Have fun, if you really like it. Some people are weird in their tastes.

GIT GUD or die trying. You chose the later I see. Funny that interface is almost the same as in Empires which you praised. Many mechanics are carried over, so you are lazy to learn a few new rules I see. There are balance problems but you don't even touch upon them since all you do is stare at loading screen after each reload when Easy AI crushes you. Accept the fact that its over and move on with your mundane life. I think Medieval 2 Total War is the only game your PC can handle.

[Laboratorium]

I can not see the numbers in the city screen other than in Empire
I can not see the legder either too small or if I enlarge it just cuts the right side.
I can not move the map (worst in the pick up screen) to the edge or it is game over as black screen.

Even playing one of the big powers I can not fight a campaign because there is no manpower for the army and no gold and after like 10 turns it is army gone. Not even on option to fight this by placing workers.

Talking about placing workers: The two column screen really really sucks. In empires you can see everything without having to look right and left...

Then the missing German translation... Even though it was sold as having German.
The missing German manual. Even though it was sold as having German translations.

It is just not fun.

I still do not know why there is 1 or 3 authority income per turn. It does not matter, because the game is uninstalled. But hell why is the key mechanic not explained, why is there no tooltip when I go over the authority showing me the balance and income? Would it show how bad the mechanic is? Hide the fraud? Or was the game just not ready.

Empire you have usually multiple regions conquered per turn. Here you can wait turns and turns to just capture one.
It is so boring. Why downgrade?

It not a good game idea and the execution is very unfinished so far.

For me it is unplayable with the sizes. Also changing the resolution in the setting has no effect. Not implemented yet.

I do not think anyone likes the multiplayer. Because there are less games running than for Empire.
And honestly even with the exploits in Empire (that could have been fixed) the game is very good for multiplayer.

All starting positions are fun playing.

Can t say that for example Buriad (or so) is fun playing, if you start by loosing your capitial. Because the opponent has 3times the army, the better Generals and is at war with you... On the flip side, if I play the Seleucs than taking the Buriads is no achievement at all because it is near impossible not win the Buriad capital and destroy the army within 2 or 3 turns...

Man do a decent Wego game which is fair and fun in multiplayer but not this. Good games are abstractions not simulations.

I have played play by mail and later play by email games for more than 3 decades. And I can tell a good game from a crap game. This is not designed to be a good Wego game.

[GeorgePattonIII]

I have played play by mail and later play by email games for more than 3 decades. And I can tell a good game from a crap game. This is not designed to be a good Wego game.

@Laboratorium - I can sympathize with feeling disappointed about purchasing a game you had high hopes for, but that didn't end up being quite what you wanted it to be. That's definitely a bummer, especially since you paid for it. And while Kingdoms is not a particularly expensive game, it's not really a cheap one either.

However, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors by pretending to have the final say on whether a game is "good" or not. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's really all it is - your opinion. Attempts to disqualify opposing opinions make you seem insecure and only serve to weaken your arguments.

I'm a long-time war gamer just like you (about 45 years for me). I own nearly every title ever released by Avalon Hill, Victory Games, SPI, GDW, Task Force Games, Games Workshop, and more. There's over 2000 games on my game room shelves. I also own almost every serious computer war game ever published by Matrix Games/Slitherine, AGEod, Battlefront, Paradox, etc. I've played them all...and I happen to like Kingdoms a lot.

I don't begrudge you for disliking the game, but it's not doing you any good trying to convince people that they should dislike it too. And why would you want to spoil anyone else's fun anyway? What good would that do?

Arguing angrily on the internet against faceless foes is easy to do...and far too common these days. But more often than not, if those same people were sitting and talking in the same room, I think they'd get along just fine.

So let's just pour ourselves a beer and play a game we like. : )

[choppinlt]

Can we pin this response?! Classic....

[Pocus]

The user seems to have severe drivers/compatibility issues, as he mentions black screens and cut-off visual elements. The ledger, for example, has the exact same format as Empires, so it's a surprise.

Regarding the mention that there is no tooltip for Authority, it actually takes a good chunk of the screen when you mouse over Authority. So, it could be another driver issue or something related to the video card. I understand that the experience is not pleasant and difficult to grasp if the player can't see any tooltips. I would be disappointed too.

But that's not the case. I would advise checking with support to resolve all hardware issues the user is suffering from first and foremost. support@slitherine.co.uk

Bonus: the Authority tooltip.

Hard to miss unless a video card issue.jpg (235.59 KiB) Viewed 1406 times

[Blathergut]

ARE there actually 999 regions on the map??!!??

[Surt]

ARE there actually 999 regions on the map??!!??

If there are the game will crash as there is no further upgrade levels
In short it means you have arrive at the max level of government types.

[Pocus]

ARE there actually 999 regions on the map??!!??

1566 actually

And now I think about it, what if a player manages to conquer 999, you might have spotted a bug here!

[bs_grom]

I love field of glory empires. And I immediately bought Kingdoms when it was available. But I have to agree that I don't like the interface. I can bear that it takes a long time to load, because it does, and I thought that maybe my hardware was too weak. I read the instructions and I like the mechanics. But the map's illegibility is off-putting. I played Poland and it was a pain. The borders are too unclear. The colors of the neighboring countries are similar. Why aren't vassals painted like in Empires? Poland at that time had no vassals at all.
The capital of Poland at that time was Gniezno, at least that is generally accepted, because in the Middle Ages it was not quite what it is today. Later there was Kraków, but that was later.
When I want to see the provinces, the colors are so similar that I can't tell which ones are different and how to build the buildings optimally. The buildings themselves are also less transparent (their graphics) but I might get used to that. Description of buildings: I liked the layout from Empires better, but maybe it's a matter of getting used to it. Raw materials are not very visible on the raw materials map. In general, I think that transparency is more important than pretty graphics. This illegibility means that for now I have to force myself to play this game instead of breaking away from it by force.
it would also be useful if negative numerical values ​​were in red.

[perris0707]

This is a game with a LOT of potential. But it still needs a lot of work as well. Hopefully modders will step up as they have so often in the past. I have over 100 hours invested in playing the game as the Eastern Roman Empire (on "easy" btw). NOT a fun experience unless you are a total masochist. Changes need to be made to how a player can build loyalty in their domain. Yes, I know that there are buildings that help in that area, or are supposed to anyway. But they are often not available in regions that need them the most. Money should be able to allow you either purchase buildings or speed up construction rather than having to move peasants around. Also the dynastic system needs improvement by allowing promotion of more nobles to peerdom, and at least being able to choose your successor. A lot more issues as well, but I don't want this to be a book. I am NOT giving up on the game yet, but it needs some important changes.

[Surt]

This is a game with a LOT of potential. But it still needs a lot of work as well. Hopefully modders will step up as they have so often in the past. I have over 100 hours invested in playing the game as the Eastern Roman Empire (on "easy" btw). NOT a fun experience unless you are a total masochist. Changes need to be made to how a player can build loyalty in their domain. Yes, I know that there are buildings that help in that area, or are supposed to anyway. But they are often not available in regions that need them the most. Money should be able to allow you either purchase buildings or speed up construction rather than having to move peasants around. Also the dynastic system needs improvement by allowing promotion of more nobles to peerdom, and at least being able to choose your successor. A lot more issues as well, but I don't want this to be a book. I am NOT giving up on the game yet, but it needs some important changes.

Well Byzant is not supposed to be easy or they overrun everything and win very easily.
There is no perfect build for this game, the limited choices, the hard decisions are what makes it fun and challenging.
It took me ~125 turns to stabilize the situation on balanced, after countless peasant revolts, pretenders, invasions from barbarians, coups etc.
The developer should place 5 death heads as difficulty for Byzant.

[choppinlt]

Constructive feedback is very helpful for the devs. I was on the beta, and I understand about the map. My initial reaction was not positive, however the schemes have grown on me. After initially playing, I got used to colors and think nothing of it now. So I hope you continue to give it a chance, because I just think it needs some getting used to.

I encourage everyone to review the Options screen on the main page. There are a number of adjustments you can make that could help. My favorite option that helps me is the ownership overlay where you choose CoA + Liege Color. So all your vassals use your color AND they have dual CoA (Coat of Arms) to help distinguish who owns what exactly.

...and yes to what Surt said...5 skulls for attempting the Byzants. Highly unrecommended for someone learning the game. They are very complicated from the start, but I can assure you that they can be made into a beast.

[Pocus]

There is a similar thread on Steam about Byzance's difficulty, here is a repost of what Edmon said about it, and I fully agree with him:

So, the primary issue with Byz is that - if it wasn't likely the hardest nation to play and most damaged empire economically - then it will happily run away with the game every single time to an easy legacy win.

And this will happen no matter who you are playing, leading back to a situation we had early on where Byz wins every game on turn 100 like clockwork. Making the game miserable for every other nation.

The games description for this nation makes it very clear that this is an exceptionally hard start (irrespective of general difficulty level) and is for veteran players only.

That said, it's something we can certainly review / look at if it's simply unplayable for most people - but as I said the main issue is that the moment Byz is stable, it's won the game. It already has all the size it needs for victory, it just has to hold on to what it has. It can potentially lose a huge chunk of itself and still be in a great position to retake what it's lost later on when it's more stable...

I'll add that with the upcoming 1.01 update, the Easy difficulty will be easier, and playing Byzantium, even if you are not too experienced in the game, should be more rewarding. However, you should not play Byzantium if you are not ready to check almost all your regions, aggressively remove costly buildings, and move a decent proportion of your freemen into commerce.

The other solution would have been to make Byzantium balanced from the start. Then you would have steamrolled everyone with ease. Would that have been better and more rewarding?

[PortoLover]

Byzantium is such a bitch to balance in these kinds of games. It's no wonder a lot of popular Medieval2 Total War mods start the campaign at a time where the Romans had already fractured.

I think there are no easy solutions short of hardcoding some events that periodically diminish Byz's stability, but then again that would fit very poorly with the open-ended nature of Kingdoms.

Maybe give them an inherent malus to loyalty and make it so christian nations can call crusades against them after a certain turn? It's not exactly historical, but then again it's so hard to model the events of the 4th crusade that it might just be easier to make it so Byz can be the target of a crusade...

[Patrat]

I'll add that with the upcoming 1.01 update, the Easy difficulty will be easier, and playing Byzantium, even if you are not too experienced in the game, should be more rewarding. However, you should not play Byzantium if you are not ready to check almost all your regions, aggressively remove costly buildings, and move a decent proportion of your freemen into commerce.

The other solution would have been to make Byzantium balanced from the start. Then you would have steamrolled everyone with ease. Would that have been better and more rewarding?

Make Byzantium easier on the Easy Difficulty sounds like a great solution.

Please don't make Byzantium into a ahistorical powerhouse on the Balanced setting.

[Pocus]

@Portolover: They have a specific event called Byzantium Court Intrigue
@Patrat: This would screw the game indeed.

But yes, it's very hard to find (if it's even possible) the right solution that will please everyone: from would-be Roman Empire restorers to new players wanting a powerful nation, to armchair historians, etc. It's a moving target!

[Laboratorium]

UI design is difficult... and this one got it very wrong.

Also dirver compatability issues... When I was in the beta, there were no problems with the graphics getting black when hitting the edges of the map... Someone broke it later...

But however I only stayed in the early versions, because I even back then hated the interface, the colors, the key game mechanic, the court and none was listening on how to improve the experience.

As I said, I wanted a good abstracted wego game with good multiplayer options and high replayabiltiy.

Not something where you can not read the numbers, because they overloaded the screens and had to make them tiny. And by adding fancy fonts and colors, the problem got worse. In Empires things are tiny too, but at least you can read the numbers (except for 5 and 3 with that font).

By the way: It is the Apple way: If the product is faulty, it is the customers choice and problem...
So if you have your game turn black, then it is never the programmer. But only the custormers outdated drivers.

Love this attitude.
Anyway good luck with the game, you will need it.

[Edmon]

UI design is difficult... and this one got it very wrong.

And that's the exact reason why you dont have bare minimum competence and taste required to access the quality of UI. I think the real point if contention here is painted horses you keep staring at every time you reload your game after being crushed by AI.

Also dirver compatability issues... When I was in the beta, there were no problems with the graphics getting black when hitting the edges of the map... Someone broke it later...

I think you are the only one who experience those eclipses. Maybe you should limit the stress in your life, but I assure you these problem has nothing to do with "dirvers".

But however I only stayed in the early versions, because I even back then hated the interface, the colors, the key game mechanic, the court and none was listening on how to improve the experience.

Maybe those perpetuating black screens are the remedy for your constant blind hatred? If you feel really intense to the point of constantly ranting on here you better place that mouse cursor on the edge, breathe slow&steady and relax..

As I said, I wanted a good abstracted wego game with good multiplayer options and high replayabiltiy.

And you got it. Now its time to dive back and enjoy your time. Bite in small chunks, dont overstimulate your sensory system.

Not something where you can not read the numbers, because they overloaded the screens and had to make them tiny. And by adding fancy fonts and colors, the problem got worse. In Empires things are tiny too, but at least you can read the numbers (except for 5 and 3 with that font).

You had 30 years of PBEM, but I assume that means Correspondence Chess into Battleship transitioned into World of Warcraft ran on potato PC? I mean if you can't handle this interface and refuse to take advice on Steam and here on how to increase fonts - ITs YOU problem.

By the way: It is the Apple way: If the product is faulty, it is the customers choice and problem...
So if you have your game turn black, then it is never the programmer. But only the custormers outdated drivers.

Special customer problems you should say cuz no one else had them. Check your privileage. You are mad now cuz you were so addicted to the game that you can't refund it now. Hook, line and sinker. Use WASD and minimap clicking as a workaround for your issue

This post was needlessly hostile in an otherwise respectful thread.

Remember- you can say whatever you want about the game - you are not welcome to say whatever you want about other members of our community.

Warned.