DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

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Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

Here is a publication of the statistical data on the casualties in the test games of the DAW campaigns from 2015-2020. I think that this can be quite interesting for some players. It gives you a rough overview of the number of enemy units you have to deal with during the individual scenarios. This can be helpful to mentally prepare for the respective missions. It can also help you to decide whether these campaigns are for you at all. I can well imagine that some players are sometimes overwhelmed by the mass of enemy units in DAW.

To give you a feel for the ratios, I have included my loss statistics for the Grand Campaign at the end. Of course, the losses are always a little different depending on the difficulty level and game, but they should be similar for different players with certain deviations.

The left block (green) shows the AI's losses and the right block (red) shows my losses. Various small positions are summarized under " Diverse" (river boats, structure and transporter, armored train). The 4 DAW campaigns were played with "General" level throughout. The Allies Campaign under "Rommel". I played the Grand Campaign under "Colonel" and active SoftCap 2015 for the first and so far only time. I also played the Grand Campaign West in 2017 with active SoftCap under " Field Marshal". Except for the Grand Campaign East (2015), I generally played with the "Dice Chess" setting.

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DAW Campaign 36-37

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DAW Campaign 39-41

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DAW Campaign 41-43
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

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DAW Campaign 44-46

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DAW Allies Campaign
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

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Grand Campaign 39-41

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Grand Campaign 42-45 East

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Grand Campaign 42-45 West


I'm also putting this data here in the forum because I would like to present a new idea in the near future that will shed light on the possibility of playing the game Panzer Corps in a slightly different way than you normally do.
rubyjuno
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by rubyjuno »

Wow, thanks for making these spreadsheets and for sharing them, it's fascinating to look through this data. Players will be grateful to have theses figures to refer to when they play your amazing campaigns.
Sonja89_1 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:33 pm I'm also putting this data here in the forum because I would like to present a new idea in the near future that will shed light on the possibility of playing the game Panzer Corps in a slightly different way than you normally do.
I'm intrigued...
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

rubyjuno wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:39 pm Wow, thanks for making these spreadsheets and for sharing them, it's fascinating to look through this data. Players will be grateful to have theses figures to refer to when they play your amazing campaigns.
Sonja89_1 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:33 pm I'm also putting this data here in the forum because I would like to present a new idea in the near future that will shed light on the possibility of playing the game Panzer Corps in a slightly different way than you normally do.
I'm intrigued...
I think I will be able to say more about this by the end of May. But there's something else before then ...
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NEW VERSION <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Over the past few months, I have taken a closer look at the DAW mod. The campaigns were created between 2015-2020 and the modification was released in several versions from 2016-2020. Since there have been some improvements over the last 4 years, I have decided to publish a renewed version (DAW 24-05) here. It will not contain another new campaign, which is probably not really necessary given the total of 178 individual missions, but it will contain a lot of improvements that will also eliminate some of the weak points previously included. The main items are as follows:

A small number of units have had their appearance improved. Some frequently used units (e.g. Panzer III, Tiger, Hummel) have been given distinctive camouflage patterns, making them easier to identify on the map.

Previously, the firing animations for a large number of units were slightly misplaced, and for some units they were clearly inaccurate. This is now much more accurate. In total, the positioning of a quarter of the units has been corrected.

New or more accurate photos (big units) have been added for several dozen units.

The flag representations in the briefing cards have been given a higher resolution and thus a better quality.

I made another change to the trench representation in the fortification tile. It is a mixture of the previous form from version 20-07 and the form as in D2R. It is a representation with which I am now finally satisfied.

All texts have been re-translated from the German original for the English version, resulting in a much better English version.

A number of slight changes have been made to the missions, which have reduced the overall difficulty of the game. I would like to list a few points below.
Mission "Danzig" (Cam1) received a slightly changed victory condition and an additional bonus unit.
In 8 missions of the 2nd campaign, slight changes were made to the map or units were slightly changed or a bonus unit was added.
In the start mission "Syrien (Syria)" of the 4th campaign, the problem with the additional units in the border area was fixed. At the same time, the core set of your own units was significantly strengthened when restarting from the 4th campaign.

The Channel Islands, Stavanger, Dombas, Narvik, Cyprus and Netherlands missions of the 4th campaign have been reduced in difficulty.
The length of the scenarios that lead to the end of the campaign if lost has been extended by 2 rounds (1st campaign) or 4 rounds (2nd - 4th campaign). This is to prevent premature elimination as far as possible.

The simplifications that I have included in the missions will certainly not make DAW easy to master. It will continue to be a difficult task to master. I've simply softened some of the overly hard points a little. Essentially, every player should set the right level for themselves. So don't approach this task with the same expectations and attitude as the Grand Campaign, otherwise you'll probably get frustrated. Over the past few months, I have experimented quite a bit with the difficulty variants. I will present the results on these pages in a few weeks.


This new DAW 24-05 version is available for download on the first page. Have fun playing.
HHT1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by HHT1 »

Pünktlich zum Internationalen Kampf- und Feiertag der Arbeiterklasse. :)
Will ich mal gleich etwas auf dem anderen Weg kämpfen.
Gute Arbeit. Wie immer.
Danke Sonja.
Thunderhog
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Thunderhog »

Awesome, I do love this mod but the German to English translation was always a bit hard to understand. I do hope to see another campaign to come from you at some point.
rubyjuno
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by rubyjuno »

Hi Sonja, thanks for you continued hard work on this excellent mod.
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

Schön wieder mal von dir zu hören, Hans (HHT1). Gutes Gelingen bei all deinen Aktionen.
Thunderhog wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 8:20 am Awesome, I do love this mod but the German to English translation was always a bit hard to understand. I do hope to see another campaign to come from you at some point.
When I made the 4 DAW campaigns, the technology was still a bit bumpy (my school English was even bumpier). In the meantime, the translators are already producing good results. This has now been incorporated into this new version. I was very pleased that you had fun with DAW. It is highly unlikely that there will be an additional campaign for DAW. As I already wrote, the scope is already ample, even for hardcore players. But there could be a new project, if I don't die of old age before then.

My thanks back to you, Rubyjuno. Your encouraging words always have a motivating effect on me. By the way, I just bought the game “Field of Glory 2 - Medieval”. It has some similarities to Panzer Corps and is quite interesting. However, the game controls take some getting used to and are cumbersome. In addition, some of the game mechanics are quite dubious. Attacks by knights on archers merely drive them forward and inflict only light casualties on them. There are times when a cavalry unit pursues a demoralized unit, temporarily stops taking orders and in some cases disappears from the map along with the enemy unit. What a bunch of bastards - they should be throwing themselves at other enemies and not having a picnic somewhere. The trembling banners on fleeing units are also very cute. It's a funny game.
PeteMitchell
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by PeteMitchell »

Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481
HHT1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by HHT1 »

PeteMitchell wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 10:40 pm www.deepl.com
Sorry
I forget :oops:

Pünktlich zum Internationalen Kampf- und Feiertag der Arbeiterklasse. :)
Will ich mal gleich etwas auf dem anderen Weg kämpfen.
Gute Arbeit. Wie immer.
Danke Sonja.

Just in time for the international day of struggle and celebration of the working class. :)
I want to fight a bit the other way.
Good work. As always.
Thank you Sonja.
LarsGert
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by LarsGert »

Sonja89_1 wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:56 pm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NEW VERSION <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Over the past few months, I have taken a closer look at the DAW mod. The campaigns were created between 2015-2020 and the modification was released in several versions from 2016-2020. Since there have been some improvements over the last 4 years, I have decided to publish a renewed version (DAW 24-05) here. It will not contain another new campaign, which is probably not really necessary given the total of 178 individual missions, but it will contain a lot of improvements that will also eliminate some of the weak points previously included. The main items are as follows:

A small number of units have had their appearance improved. Some frequently used units (e.g. Panzer III, Tiger, Hummel) have been given distinctive camouflage patterns, making them easier to identify on the map.

Previously, the firing animations for a large number of units were slightly misplaced, and for some units they were clearly inaccurate. This is now much more accurate. In total, the positioning of a quarter of the units has been corrected.

New or more accurate photos (big units) have been added for several dozen units.

The flag representations in the briefing cards have been given a higher resolution and thus a better quality.

I made another change to the trench representation in the fortification tile. It is a mixture of the previous form from version 20-07 and the form as in D2R. It is a representation with which I am now finally satisfied.

All texts have been re-translated from the German original for the English version, resulting in a much better English version.

A number of slight changes have been made to the missions, which have reduced the overall difficulty of the game. I would like to list a few points below.
Mission "Danzig" (Cam1) received a slightly changed victory condition and an additional bonus unit.
In 8 missions of the 2nd campaign, slight changes were made to the map or units were slightly changed or a bonus unit was added.
In the start mission "Syrien (Syria)" of the 4th campaign, the problem with the additional units in the border area was fixed. At the same time, the core set of your own units was significantly strengthened when restarting from the 4th campaign.

The Channel Islands, Stavanger, Dombas, Narvik, Cyprus and Netherlands missions of the 4th campaign have been reduced in difficulty.
The length of the scenarios that lead to the end of the campaign if lost has been extended by 2 rounds (1st campaign) or 4 rounds (2nd - 4th campaign). This is to prevent premature elimination as far as possible.

The simplifications that I have included in the missions will certainly not make DAW easy to master. It will continue to be a difficult task to master. I've simply softened some of the overly hard points a little. Essentially, every player should set the right level for themselves. So don't approach this task with the same expectations and attitude as the Grand Campaign, otherwise you'll probably get frustrated. Over the past few months, I have experimented quite a bit with the difficulty variants. I will present the results on these pages in a few weeks.


This new DAW 24-05 version is available for download on the first page. Have fun playing.
Thank you so much for not abandoning your mod and making us happy with the new version!
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

LarsGert wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 1:29 pm Thank you so much for not abandoning your mod and making us happy with the new version!
I'm very pleased that you're still enjoying DAW. By the way, I hadn't forgotten your hint about the minesweeper group “Mausi” from last summer. However, I would have had to assign a different class to the sea mines in order to install such a character. This would have jeopardized compatibility with old game saves. At least the riverboats are a good alternative to searching for naval mines.

At this point I would like to point out that this version 24-05 is downward compatible with the earlier version DAW 20-07. This means that a campaign started in March, for example, can be continued with the new version, preferably after completing a scenario.
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

A few weeks ago in April I hinted that I would like to suggest an idea for playing Panzer Corps in a slightly different way. I want to go into this in more detail today.

It's all about the difficulty level. Usually, most players start with the default setting (Colonel) and the combat cases on “Normal”. This is also how I played through my first campaigns. Later, I set the combat randomness to “Dice Chess” (this is another topic in itself and will not be discussed further in this article). I gradually increased the difficulty level to “Rommel” during the test phase of D2R. This was also because I realized that some players were getting into prestige trouble with DAW, while I had no problems in this regard. Keeping my losses very low has never been difficult for me in strategy games.

With this approach, you basically choose a suitable difficulty setting, adjust it so that you can reach your DVs relatively safely and play through the campaigns in this way. This can be quite enjoyable and also bring some fun, but in the long run it becomes like chewing gum that is kept in your mouth for too long. You can also see this in the Let's Play videos for Panzer Corps. Even at higher levels, it gets boring at some point if 95% or more of the game ends up being a DV. It's a bit like a high jump competition where the jumper places the bar 10 cm below his own best mark and then jumps over this lower height again and again without changing the jump height again. As a spectator, the best you can do is wait for a failed attempt or stop watching at some point.

For most players, the rough difficulty setting (Colonel, General, ...to Ultimate) is also too far apart. To come back to the high jump analogy, it is roughly the same as if the jumpers would only jump the heights 1.00 m / 1.50 m / 2.00 m / 2.50 m. Almost all good jumpers would jump over 2 m and then fail. Almost all good jumpers would jump over 2 m and then fail. After all, Panzer Corps has fine-tuning options that only a minority will use. I would like to focus on these fine adjustments with my suggestion.

Panzer Corps has been cleverly equipped with a very finely adjustable difficulty setting. If you now use these setting parameters flexibly and constantly change them, a player can easily test his own limits. Specifically, I suggest creating a difficulty scale, as I have shown here as an example. Following this scale, you start at the beginning of a campaign at the standard level (Colonel - 100). With each DV you jump to the next level (101, 102 etc.) for the following mission. If you achieve an MV in a scenario, you remain at the same level in the following mission. If you complete the scenario with a “Loss”, the difficulty level is reduced by one. The mechanism is therefore very simple and requires no additional study. You only have to reset the level at the end of each scenario (with DV + Loss), but with a little practice this can be done within 10 seconds.

Level-Skala.jpg
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The number scale (70 - 206) is strongly oriented towards the main difficulty levels (Colonel, General ... to Ultimate). For the easier levels such as General or Field Marshal, the level value is only increased by 1 or 2, for Rommel by 3, for Guderian by 4 and for Manstein by 5. This results in 51 different individual levels, 10 simplifying, the standard position and 40 aggravating. The player moves up and down these levels during a campaign, depending on his own success. Level 175 corresponds almost exactly to the Ultimate setting. The field marshal levels are a special feature. Normally, this is based on a reduction in player experience. However, I have already reduced this in DAW anyway, which is why I didn't want an additional reduction at this point. Conversely, this increases the experience of the AI units, which can be very aggravating in the later course of a campaign.

The advantage is that this entire system can be used for a wide variety of campaigns, not only for DAW, but mainly for longer ones. But you can also play a short campaign this way if you offset the starting point a little, for example starting at 125 instead of 100. The even greater advantage is that it can be used by all players, not just old, experienced veterans of the game, but also new players.

As more scenarios are completed with a “loss”, the question remains as to how to deal with scenarios that complete the campaign in such a case. You could then repeat the scenario, or alternatively use a cheat to switch to the next scenario while downgrading the difficulty. For this reason, among others, I have extended the scenarios in DAW that lead to a conclusion by 2 or 4 rounds.

Below I have statistics for 2 test campaigns. First, I put together a campaign from a whole series of missions that I had not played in my 2015-16 run, plus initial scenarios where key units were assigned. In the second example, I played the 4th campaign of DAW with the starting team for 1944. That was a really tough ride, as you can see at the end. This motivated me to add a number of small improvements to the missions. You can see from the two examples that the breaking point for the Grand Campaign was 155-160 and for DAW (4th campaign) 140-150.

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I'm not saying that this is the ideal way to play campaigns in Panzer Corps. It's an alternative way to do it. But you definitely reach your limits, you get bruised and suffer casualties. It's not for people who need their DV success at the end of a mission, although I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I also prefer a DV to narrowly failing. However, you ultimately learn more from such borderline experiences with individual defeats than from easily achieved successes. In any case, it is more important to preserve the substance of your troops and get as many units through to the end as possible than to achieve a single success. So try it out with any campaign.
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by LarsGert »

Sonja89_1 wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:08 pm
LarsGert wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 1:29 pm Thank you so much for not abandoning your mod and making us happy with the new version!
I'm very pleased that you're still enjoying DAW. By the way, I hadn't forgotten your hint about the minesweeper group “Mausi” from last summer. However, I would have had to assign a different class to the sea mines in order to install such a character. This would have jeopardized compatibility with old game saves. At least the riverboats are a good alternative to searching for naval mines.

At this point I would like to point out that this version 24-05 is downward compatible with the earlier version DAW 20-07. This means that a campaign started in March, for example, can be continued with the new version, preferably after completing a scenario.
It's OK. The boat that is in your mod does an excellent job of clearing mines, and whenever possible I always try to use it in one scenario or another, and besides, it can do more than just that. It’s just that its range is limited to water (rivers, including), and that minesweeper that I saw in another mod is simply universal in its own way, since it is an aircraft, just a convenience, although it is very vulnerable to fighters and anti-aircraft guns. Of course, you can use pioneers, but they do not clear mines without harming themselves. I repeat, no big deal.

I also wanted to discuss another issue. In chapter 39-41, after completing the Nordsee scenario, the next Luttich does not open, showing a black start screen. Fix please.
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

LarsGert wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 1:21 pm I also wanted to discuss another issue. In chapter 39-41, after completing the Nordsee scenario, the next Luttich does not open, showing a black start screen. Fix please.
I have just tested the position again. It works perfectly for me. I have also checked the campaign file carefully. The corresponding assignments are all correct. The error is not due to the modification.

The way you describe the faulty processing, there seems to be an incorrect assignment. The program is trying to call up a file that it cannot find. All it takes is a single character mismatch. I suspect that your computer may have a problem with the German letter “ü”, which is contained in the name “Lüttich”. Have a look in the directory “DAW39-41”. There you should find the individual scenarios for this campaign. Among other things, there should also be 2 files with the name “Lüttich”. If it looks a little different there, you could adjust the file name accordingly. Such an adjustment would also have to be made in the subordinate directory “Briefings” for another 4 files. In this case, also check the umlauts in the other mission names, e.g. “Brüssel”. As I said, these tips are only for cases where the file names do not correspond to the default.
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

Based on the new version of DAW-2405, I have started playing a full campaign for the first time since my 2016-2019 test games. In addition, I will use the level mode I introduced on May 29. This will make it a little clearer how this variant of difficulty selection works and affects the game. Let's see at what point the AI becomes so strong that I can no longer cope with it. That moment is sure to come, the only question is when.

I plan to present the respective scenarios here sporadically with 1 or 2 screenshots so that interested players can get a little insight, even if it certainly won't be a real AAR. In the basic settings I play it with dice chess and active "Reform Units". I will limit the restoration of units to a few special cases and then communicate this. As a matter of principle, I don't use cheats or the ongoing reloading of saved game states. If it does happen, I will indicate it in the descriptions.

Saar36-3.jpg
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The first scenario "Saarland" of the first campaign is something special. The player is immediately confronted with an overly strong opponent, who must be avoided rather than put up stiff resistance. The AI is clearly superior to the player in terms of both quantity and quality. The player's chance lies in maneuvering as successfully as possible and ensuring that a sufficient number of their own units survive. This is no easy task.

The French immediately attack Saarbrücken, which is occupied, advance towards Neunkirchen and then aim for Homburg. My own camouflaged Free Corps moves west past Homburg towards the south (1). On the strategic map you can see that I moved across the border with the unit (2) and subsequently managed to win a few secondary flag hexes of the French, which were undefended. Another militia was able to wind its way south through the border zone and reach an area where it subsequently remained undisturbed (3). Otherwise, I moved a sufficient number of militia units into a quiet region, where they remained undetected until the end (4). Alternatively, there is still the option of offering resistance with the Luxembourg militia, which can be achieved with skill and a lot of luck.

Saar36-21.jpg
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As already mentioned, it is not easy not to be overrun during this mission. If you don't succeed straight away, a second or third attempt can bring success. I also lost too many units on my first attempt and started it a second time. :)
rubyjuno
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by rubyjuno »

Interesting to read your strategy here. I played this scenario many times, every time losing too many units, before I succeeded. As you say, "If you don't succeed straight away, a second or third attempt can bring success", although in my case it was more than a second or third attempt...
Sonja89_1
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Re: DAW - Der andere Weg - The other way

Post by Sonja89_1 »

rubyjuno wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 7:20 am Interesting to read your strategy here. I played this scenario many times, every time losing too many units, before I succeeded. As you say, "If you don't succeed straight away, a second or third attempt can bring success", although in my case it was more than a second or third attempt...
This first scenario has (almost) no influence on the further course of the campaign. Therefore, the result is not so decisive. The point of this mission was to give the player a different perspective. Normally in Panzer Corps the player has either a superior quantity of units or, in most cases, a clearly superior quality. It's not uncommon for your own troops to be so strong that you simply have to hit many enemy units and ... That's it - problem solved. In real war situations, on the other hand, it often happens that you yourself are the rabbit that has to flee, just like in this scenario. The key is to save your own troops.

The second scenario is also not in the typical mission style. "Rheinprovinz" is mainly an occupation of terrain. There is only very limited combat. Here you can recover a little from the first mission, collect a lot of prestige, which you will still need, and get to know the Moselle and Rhine region a bit.

Rheinprovinz-10.jpg
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It is advantageous to assemble troops as quickly as possible near Trier, where the objective is to destroy 3 French cavalry units. This can be achieved with rail transports. I was able to deploy the 88mm Flak (second core unit) in ground combat mode (1) and gain 32 experience points in this scenario - Yeah.
On the strategic map you can see the starting positions east of the Rhine (2) and the approximate target points (3). There is enough time available, but you should not dawdle. In addition, a certain scout must be removed from the map via a special field (4). Otherwise, you have to fill your prestige account.

Rheinprovinz-13b.jpg
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