Combat calculation

[Gwaylare]

Zero randomness is advertised as "what you see on prediction is what you get", and this is how many players actually want it, so I don't think it's an option to make it random in any way. However, going to "everything is 100 instead of 10" is an interesting idea which potentially could be done as an option. Have you tried it (just open a scenario in the editor, and mass-make all units 100 in Configure Units mode)? Does it give a good enough result?

Good idea to test this. The editor really allows a little change like this. See screenshots attached.
That looks quite fine I think. Instead of 4 kills for the soviet unit we now did 41 (or 4.1) and for the germans we have 34 (3.4) which was 3 before. This is much smoother than it was before, so I like it. I will do a second test together with scout, to see how small improvements do change results.
One side effekt was massive increase of exp, so it is not possible just to modify maps.

BTW, note that we WILL allow to set any randomness you want in MP scenarios, once Advanced Options is unlocked. Zero will only remain as the default.

Thanks I like to have RNG in multiplayer on one hand, but on the other hand we just need to have a standard for multiplayer games. It is very confusing if RNG is different in every multiplayer game. Especially for new players it is really hard. But I will enjoy to have the option to use it in special games.
So I can deal with having no RNG in multiplayer, if this is what most of the other players do like, until I convinced them to believe the opposite

So what I am looking for is an improvement of an implementation for multiplayer. May be no RNG is the right way to go for multiplayer, but we have to fine tune the effects a little bit.

Best regards
Gwaylare

[Gwaylare]

Second try with a scout and we do see a great change.

So the scout does +10 to accuracy, while the german unit got some entrenchment while waiting for the scout. This leads to an accuracy of 55, which does mean an increase of 10%.

The inflicted damage now is 45 instead of 41 before, which does reflect an 10% increase.

Remember with the current implementation we had 4 kills without a scout and together with a scout we get 5 kills, which is an increase of 25%.

[armedevil]

Combat calculation remains really nonintuitive.

I had a 10-step fighter that had a prediction of 7.98 against a 9-step bomber (accuracy 90%, kill 90%).
Even if I achieve 9 kills in a row, I do not get a chance for a tenth kill, as an 'optimization' (9 kills is the max possible).
But then the 50%-50% calculation between 'real result' and prediction kicks in, giving 8.49 rounded down to 8.

So, against a 10-step enemy you have a solid chance of 9 kills ('expected' will be > 8 ), but against a 9-step enemy 8 kills is the max. So the 'optimization' of stopping after 9 kills turns out to change the range of possible outcomes. This is not how optimizations should work. And 9 defenders should not get better outcomes than 10 defenders.

(also: there is an enhanced chance, it seems, of low probability '1 kill' results).

[Haze0008]

Code: Select all

I'm also confused with this as the 'logic' Rudankort describes is NOT the way it worked in PC1. As he describes it, a 10 strength unit attacking a 5 strength unit will have a hit chance probability curve that is truncated/maxed at 5 kills as the defender can only lose 5 units. However, in PC1, a 10 strength unit with a 50% kill chance when attacking a 5 strength unit, had 10 chances to roll a 'killing' shot and, therefore, the probability curve centered at 5, due to the fact that the attacker had 10 shots, not because the defender only had 5 strength. The attack could be anywhere from 0 (no killing shots) to 10 (all killing shots). Killing rolls numbering over 5 were allowed, but couldn't cause more damage than the 5 strength of the attacked unit. The defenders strength determined the max number killed while the attacking unit determined the number of kills (and potentially, non-counted overkill). See the pictures below showing a second attack (following a previous Bf109 attack) from a 10 strength Bf109 on a 5 strength Polish biplane from the first scenario of GC39 which shows the attacker getting 6 'kill' shots out of 10 on a 53% kill probability and 7 'kill' shots out of 10. Also, the pre-attack probabilities did not decline after the first attack due to the lower strength of the defender. Also, the combat modifiers/calculations didn't change no matter how much damage the first attack did, the attack values remained the same, predicting 5 kills for both attacks. Obviously, it would predict fewer if less survived the first attack, but it did not give a lower number for the second attack as described above. If a similar attacker is allowed a maximum of 5 'kill' shots in PC2 despite having 10 attacks, then this is very much different than PC1 and more like the OOB idea of being harder to chase down and finish lower strength units.

How do I enable the screen that you posted with combat results?

[Grondel]

How do I enable the screen that you posted with combat results?

Those screens are not from PC2. u get a similar statistik by hitting "L"(default setting)in PC2.

sers,
Thomas