Reworking Sea battles.

[Grondel]

As i mentioned elsewhere i started on reworking the Sea Battles, now that i don´t have to wait for Pacific any longer.

I would like the help of the community with this.

I will create a small mod that will display 2 ways of handling the sea battles.
Option 1 is all player controlled ships.
Option 2 is all AI controlled ships, but new big modells.

In addition all ships will be reworked. So far this are the ideas that came up. Feel free to let me know anything else that comes to mind.

Updated 09.02:

BB:
- Flank-speed-mode high move, low range
- Bombard-mode 10 range, 2 move
- lower vision than range in general, needs recons to bombard
- more hits than 10, def depending on armor

Cruiser:
same as BB with lower ranges
- more hits than 10, def depending on armor

Destroyer/Frigate: diff classes/roles
- range 0
Roles:
- Sub hunter mode move 3, recon ability
- FlaK Frigate AA 2/3 range
- Radar
- Landing support, range 2 AT/Arty support
- more hits than 10, def depending on armor

Patrole boats:
- Range 0 torpedo attack

Carriers:
- Range 1 AA
- more hits than 10, def depending on armor

- rework sea attack of Tac and strategics
- rework sea attack of artillerie and fortress.

Any ideas u might have are welcome.

sers,
Thomas

[Retributarr]

Fleet Instruction Protocols Implemented By Input From Player:
~~~Meaning that!... "The Player" can by inputting designated or by designating "instruction-Sets"... or "Courses of Action" to be implemented from a prepared "Operations Menu"... to determining how your Fleet or Fleet's will then respond or conduct their operations without your need for personal hand's on involvement.

I'm No-Navy-Barnacle!... i know very little about Naval-Tactics... but for those who do... maybe they can flesh out this idea or premise to make some good use and sense out of it.

An "Example" might be!... to primarily have a Fleet monitor or patrol a specific region for a specific purpose... until otherwise given new instructions or orders from "Fleet-HQ"("YOU the Player")... such as to join up with another Fleet or Fleets to conduct specific operations. This just may be one of those occasion's where the Player then takes direct control or involvement in Naval Actions by temporarily overriding the programmed "Instruction-Sets"... and then directing the Fleet or combined Fleets personally!.

Those who are knowledgeable and into the nuance's of Naval Operations can fill out the rest of this story!. One Last point!... when a Ship or a Fleet sustain a certain amount of combat damage... they should also have instructions as to where to go-to repair their vessels in "Dry-Dock".

[DefiantXYX]

I dont see a reason to rework everything. Did you play the first panzergeneral? I never had a problem with the ships there.
For the AO or your campaign I would keep it as simple as possible. As long as you dont plan to do some huge new maps with sea battles.

Some thoughts:
- submarines should be useful. Either they can "evade" when attacked or can at least fire first.
- bigger ships with higher range should fire first
- like any other units ship should not always attack at full strength. I never understood that feature
- individuell stats for some famous ships. Afair in Brighton some biritsh ship are stronger than the bismarck. Why had the whole royal navy pee in their pants when they saw the bismarck?
- no attack modes. especially the AA mode is a pain in the ass. Its ok if ships have a strong air defense, but not like that
- ship should be able to do some damage on ground units. I also like to abuse sometimes the fact, that you can move your units to the coast to get the survivor trait without talking any losses.

[Grondel]

I dont see a reason to rework everything. Did you play the first panzergeneral? I never had a problem with the ships there.
For the AO or your campaign I would keep it as simple as possible. As long as you dont plan to do some huge new maps with sea battles.

NH44 Sea Lion followed by Valkyrie and NH43 Pacific are planned and need decent Sea Battles. I waited for pacific with those, since i hate doing stuff twice and expected a rework of ships and how they work.

No more need to wait now.

sers,
Thomas

[RandomAttack]

I've never liked how visibility and range are handled at sea. Basically, "range" should never exceed "visibility". EX: For sea battles they should basically be the same for BBs. For DDs the visibility should be about the same but the range much less.
There were only a couple of instances in the ENTIRE WAR where a BB tried "indirect fire" against ships-- and none of them worked well. Always thought this mechanic simply doesn't work well at sea, but every developer always tries to cram it in like a land-based FOW. Different with shore bombardment where you have a spotter and stationary target.

[Stormchaser]

One interesting thing is that the AO 1946 Fugaku bombers actually provide a way to implement Torpedo Bombers by modding Ju 87C, Swordfishes and whatnot to have a ranged attack (Probably stick to Range 1, maybe 2 for late War Torpedoes.). Most likely won't be any animations, but still a big deal for allowing mass air attacks against a single ship. The role switch can then be used for Bombers capable of carrying bombs and torpedoes to swap loadouts mid battle.

Now if only there were floatplanes models to use for naval recon...

[Retributarr]

One interesting thing is that the AO 1946 Fugaku bombers actually provide a way to implement Torpedo Bombers by modding Ju 87C, Swordfishes and whatnot to have a ranged attack (Probably stick to Range 1, maybe 2 for late War Torpedoes.). Most likely won't be any animations, but still a big deal for allowing mass air attacks against a single ship. The role switch can then be used for Bombers capable of carrying bombs and torpedoes to swap loadouts mid battle.

Now if only there were floatplanes models to use for naval recon...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_H8K
Kawanishi H8K
The Kawanishi H8K was a flying boat used by the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service during World War II for maritime patrol duties. The Allied reporting name for the type was "Emily".


The Kawanishi H8K was a large, four-engine aircraft designed for long range and extended endurance on patrols or bombing missions typically flown alone over the ocean. The prototype first flew in January 1941, and H8K1s made their first combat sortie in March 1942. The robust H8K2 "Emily" flying boat was also fitted with powerful defensive armament, for which Allied pilots had substantial respect wherever this aircraft was encountered in the Pacific theater.

[Stormchaser]

One interesting thing is that the AO 1946 Fugaku bombers actually provide a way to implement Torpedo Bombers by modding Ju 87C, Swordfishes and whatnot to have a ranged attack (Probably stick to Range 1, maybe 2 for late War Torpedoes.). Most likely won't be any animations, but still a big deal for allowing mass air attacks against a single ship. The role switch can then be used for Bombers capable of carrying bombs and torpedoes to swap loadouts mid battle.

Now if only there were floatplanes models to use for naval recon...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_H8K
Kawanishi H8K
The Kawanishi H8K was a flying boat used by the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service during World War II for maritime patrol duties. The Allied reporting name for the type was "Emily".


The Kawanishi H8K was a large, four-engine aircraft designed for long range and extended endurance on patrols or bombing missions typically flown alone over the ocean. The prototype first flew in January 1941, and H8K1s made their first combat sortie in March 1942. The robust H8K2 "Emily" flying boat was also fitted with powerful defensive armament, for which Allied pilots had substantial respect wherever this aircraft was encountered in the Pacific theater.

Yes, Flying Boats are in the game with the H8K and PBY Catalina. I was referring more to the kind that had had floats underneath mounted on struts and could be launched via catapults off Cruisers and Battleships. Like the OS2U Kingfisher and Aichi E13A.

[scorehouse]

Order of Battle sea battles work great. anyway to incorporate their's into the Panzer? I much prefer Panzer to OoB as a whole.

[Grondel]

Order of Battle sea battles work great. anyway to incorporate their's into the Panzer? I much prefer Panzer to OoB as a whole.

OOB has multishot units, something PC2 can´t do in it´s current state. But i aim at something similar.

sers,
Thomas

[Retributarr]

Yes, Flying Boats are in the game with the H8K and PBY Catalina. I was referring more to the kind that had had floats underneath mounted on struts and could be launched via catapults off Cruisers and Battleships. Like the OS2U Kingfisher and Aichi E13A.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ja ... =0&first=1

Japanese WWII Catapult Launched Pontoon Reconnaissance Float Planes


Japanese Nakajima E8N1 'Dave' a ship-borne, catapult-launched, reconnaissance float plane