Axis Operation 1945 Review

[Rokosovsky]

Hello, I apologize in advance for bad English. I am an old fan from Russia since the first part of this series, but I did not expect propaganda in the second part of the game. Now I will explain what I mean. I don’t know here in the review it was necessary to write or create another topic or write directly to the publisher or developers, it is not known who did it, so I decided to write it in the review for now, I will be glad if someone tells you where it is better to write with this question. In general, the essence of the problem, in the Vienna Offensive mission, in the original it is shown that Iva Brandt was killed, tortured, raped and that Soviet soldiers did it for the atrocities that the axis did on the territory of the USSR and they say that the Soviet government would not do anything with such crimes of their soldiers on the territory of Hungary and Germany. In my opinion, this is either a poor knowledge of history from the publisher or developer, because it is not known which of them added this to this mission, or propaganda in order to denigrate the Soviet army, as usual in our modern time.
I am a fairly educated person, I know history well, and now I will briefly tell you how it really was. Yes, there were such cases as murders and rapes on the territory of Germany, Hungary, etc., but there were a small number of them, the second, almost all of these cases were massively punished in the Soviet army to the point of being shot. That is, the mission clearly shows untruth or propaganda that they say no one was punished for this, as I wrote above, they were punished and how, all the more you need to understand that this is a war and such cases could be in any army, both in the Soviet and in the American and in the British, but normal educated people who know history well and are in their right mind will not, because of a couple of hundred such cases, denigrate the entire Soviet army and its exploits or any other allied army because of this.
But it is the Soviet army that stands out in the mission and not a word is said about the atrocities of the Germans themselves and especially the Hungarians on the territory of the USSR. The Germans and their allies spread two world wars, killed 20 million people in the USSR, and after that the publisher of this game or one of the developers adds in this mission such a lie trying to show what a good and peaceful Germans and Hungarians were in the West, although in history most Germans and Hungarians supported Hitler and their Nazi authorities and turned a blind eye to the camps, etc. And these civilians were far from civilians, and I repeat, yes, this does not negate what those soldiers of the USSR did, but I repeat, as I wrote above, for this we were shot in the army and no one let it go, and in the allied army, also for rape and looting was shot, but this does not underestimate the exploits of these armies and these peoples. And I want to say the last thing in this story. In the Russian translation of this mission, it does not say that she was raped, etc., that is, there is a feeling that in order to avoid conflict, a slightly different translation was made for the Russian player, and propaganda was poured into the ears of the Western player to show that they say look how good the West is, what advice is bad.
In general, you should be ashamed of the publisher or developer for such things, as you did not expect this from you. What your troops did in the world during the two world wars and what they did especially in Poland and Russia, how many millions of people died in Poland and Russia, especially both soldiers and civilians, and you are still starting to raise the topic that Soviet soldiers tortured someone, etc., although these cases were few and they were punished, in general, you should be ashamed of the West. Even take the same Ukraine as the West and NATO is now pumping weapons to Ukraine and hushing up its crimes since 2013 in the Donbass and denigrating Russia, all the same Western Goebel propaganda. Dear players, if there are those among you who know history well, do not listen to this propaganda, they are trying to completely denigrate the USSR and whitewash the West and push the West against Russia in a modern war. I didn’t want to say anything about politics, but this mission about Iva Brand outraged me how they brought it up.

P.S Sincerely, Pavel fan from Russia with love.

[Kerensky]

Vichy France proves this would not be entirely unrealistic. That would be a complex political situation to re-instate the French government (even if part of France would remain annexed), but I can see the point and how it could be done by a more moderate ruler in the right circumstances. As for India, Germany already did some movement to support anti-British rebellions in the Middle East, even if all of them were token gestures at best, so this also fall into the realms of possibility. Plus there's the obvious logistical situation and proven examples of what the Japanese tried in the region, for example Thailand, and here we are looking only at a declaration of supporting independence, not even getting India directly involved on the same side.

Vichy France did not call itself Vichy France. They referred to themselves as 'The French State'. And in all the historical documentation I've come across, I don't think I've ever seen a map of Greater Germany that takes over France. It seems very clear to me no permanent occupation of France or full annexation was ever really considered.

I mean, it's very probable Germany would try to land grab that hotly debated and contested Alsace Lorraine region as part of the negotiation to de-occupy France. And I'm sure Germany would make obvious attempts to promote pro-German elements within France to lead the new French State.

But these things are par for course for centuries of European politics pre-WWII.

And remember, letting India 'go free' came with strings attached. Germany gets that huge British Pacific Fleet in exchange, along with the agreement to not let Europeans interfere with India. Stefan Wagner points out that very specific language, and it's an obvious nod to Japanese Imperial ambitions. I imagine there could well be a deal between the new Germany and Imperial Japan to agree to let India fall under Japan's ever growing sphere of influence. In exchange for... I dunno... providing political willpower, resources, and manpower to support an invasion of the United States?

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Hello, I apologize in advance for bad English. I am an old fan from Russia since the first part of this series, but I did not expect propaganda in the second part of the game. Now I will explain what I mean. I don’t know here in the review it was necessary to write or create another topic or write directly to the publisher or developers, it is not known who did it, so I decided to write it in the review for now, I will be glad if someone tells you where it is better to write with this question. In general, the essence of the problem, in the Vienna Offensive mission, in the original it is shown that Iva Brandt was killed, tortured, raped and that Soviet soldiers did it for the atrocities that the axis did on the territory of the USSR and they say that the Soviet government would not do anything with such crimes of their soldiers on the territory of Hungary and Germany. In my opinion, this is either a poor knowledge of history from the publisher or developer, because it is not known which of them added this to this mission, or propaganda in order to denigrate the Soviet army, as usual in our modern time.
I am a fairly educated person, I know history well, and now I will briefly tell you how it really was. Yes, there were such cases as murders and rapes on the territory of Germany, Hungary, etc., but there were a small number of them, the second, almost all of these cases were massively punished in the Soviet army to the point of being shot. That is, the mission clearly shows untruth or propaganda that they say no one was punished for this, as I wrote above, they were punished and how, all the more you need to understand that this is a war and such cases could be in any army, both in the Soviet and in the American and in the British, but normal educated people who know history well and are in their right mind will not, because of a couple of hundred such cases, denigrate the entire Soviet army and its exploits or any other allied army because of this.
But it is the Soviet army that stands out in the mission and not a word is said about the atrocities of the Germans themselves and especially the Hungarians on the territory of the USSR. The Germans and their allies spread two world wars, killed 20 million people in the USSR, and after that the publisher of this game or one of the developers adds in this mission such a lie trying to show what a good and peaceful Germans and Hungarians were in the West, although in history most Germans and Hungarians supported Hitler and their Nazi authorities and turned a blind eye to the camps, etc. And these civilians were far from civilians, and I repeat, yes, this does not negate what those soldiers of the USSR did, but I repeat, as I wrote above, for this we were shot in the army and no one let it go, and in the allied army, also for rape and looting was shot, but this does not underestimate the exploits of these armies and these peoples. And I want to say the last thing in this story. In the Russian translation of this mission, it does not say that she was raped, etc., that is, there is a feeling that in order to avoid conflict, a slightly different translation was made for the Russian player, and propaganda was poured into the ears of the Western player to show that they say look how good the West is, what advice is bad.
In general, you should be ashamed of the publisher or developer for such things, as you did not expect this from you. What your troops did in the world during the two world wars and what they did especially in Poland and Russia, how many millions of people died in Poland and Russia, especially both soldiers and civilians, and you are still starting to raise the topic that Soviet soldiers tortured someone, etc., although these cases were few and they were punished, in general, you should be ashamed of the West. Even take the same Ukraine as the West and NATO is now pumping weapons to Ukraine and hushing up its crimes since 2013 in the Donbass and denigrating Russia, all the same Western Goebel propaganda. Dear players, if there are those among you who know history well, do not listen to this propaganda, they are trying to completely denigrate the USSR and whitewash the West and push the West against Russia in a modern war. I didn’t want to say anything about politics, but this mission about Iva Brand outraged me how they brought it up.

P.S Sincerely, Pavel fan from Russia with love.

I'm fine with this as long as they would put the same kind of things into future allied campaigns, personally. And I believe they would do that since such hints are already given, you can accidentally encounter SS guards in the Camp area in the training scenario in Poland near Javorzno, see Manstein mentioning "German occupation has backfired on us now" in Zhitomir briefing, and see that large camp facility near Munich which is of course, the Dachau Camp. Maybe we should give them some time and see how this would play out when the narritive view has moved away from Germany, like that famous movie said, "let the bullet fly for a while"?

The text about Brandt's end is blurred in the original one too, they are trying to avoid a too direct description from the start, not in the Russian localisation specificly.

Regarding the conflict that currently goes on, I remember someone that said "oh we should name the locations in current one so that people know it is where the Russians are attacking now" and it was turned down by the developers to stay away from that topic. I hope this can, not to negate your claim, as least prove that they are not the same western propaganda (which we the Chinese hate a lot too) you can find everywhere.

[adiekmann]

Hello, I apologize in advance for bad English. I am an old fan from Russia since the first part of this series, but I did not expect propaganda in the second part of the game. Now I will explain what I mean. I don’t know here in the review it was necessary to write or create another topic or write directly to the publisher or developers, it is not known who did it, so I decided to write it in the review for now, I will be glad if someone tells you where it is better to write with this question. In general, the essence of the problem, in the Vienna Offensive mission, in the original it is shown that Iva Brandt was killed, tortured, raped and that Soviet soldiers did it for the atrocities that the axis did on the territory of the USSR and they say that the Soviet government would not do anything with such crimes of their soldiers on the territory of Hungary and Germany. In my opinion, this is either a poor knowledge of history from the publisher or developer, because it is not known which of them added this to this mission, or propaganda in order to denigrate the Soviet army, as usual in our modern time.
I am a fairly educated person, I know history well, and now I will briefly tell you how it really was. Yes, there were such cases as murders and rapes on the territory of Germany, Hungary, etc., but there were a small number of them, the second, almost all of these cases were massively punished in the Soviet army to the point of being shot. That is, the mission clearly shows untruth or propaganda that they say no one was punished for this, as I wrote above, they were punished and how, all the more you need to understand that this is a war and such cases could be in any army, both in the Soviet and in the American and in the British, but normal educated people who know history well and are in their right mind will not, because of a couple of hundred such cases, denigrate the entire Soviet army and its exploits or any other allied army because of this.
But it is the Soviet army that stands out in the mission and not a word is said about the atrocities of the Germans themselves and especially the Hungarians on the territory of the USSR. The Germans and their allies spread two world wars, killed 20 million people in the USSR, and after that the publisher of this game or one of the developers adds in this mission such a lie trying to show what a good and peaceful Germans and Hungarians were in the West, although in history most Germans and Hungarians supported Hitler and their Nazi authorities and turned a blind eye to the camps, etc. And these civilians were far from civilians, and I repeat, yes, this does not negate what those soldiers of the USSR did, but I repeat, as I wrote above, for this we were shot in the army and no one let it go, and in the allied army, also for rape and looting was shot, but this does not underestimate the exploits of these armies and these peoples. And I want to say the last thing in this story. In the Russian translation of this mission, it does not say that she was raped, etc., that is, there is a feeling that in order to avoid conflict, a slightly different translation was made for the Russian player, and propaganda was poured into the ears of the Western player to show that they say look how good the West is, what advice is bad.
In general, you should be ashamed of the publisher or developer for such things, as you did not expect this from you. What your troops did in the world during the two world wars and what they did especially in Poland and Russia, how many millions of people died in Poland and Russia, especially both soldiers and civilians, and you are still starting to raise the topic that Soviet soldiers tortured someone, etc., although these cases were few and they were punished, in general, you should be ashamed of the West. Even take the same Ukraine as the West and NATO is now pumping weapons to Ukraine and hushing up its crimes since 2013 in the Donbass and denigrating Russia, all the same Western Goebel propaganda. Dear players, if there are those among you who know history well, do not listen to this propaganda, they are trying to completely denigrate the USSR and whitewash the West and push the West against Russia in a modern war. I didn’t want to say anything about politics, but this mission about Iva Brand outraged me how they brought it up.

P.S Sincerely, Pavel fan from Russia with love.

Hello Pavel,

I understand your point of view. Many in the West do not fully appreciate or are aware of the unbelievable sacrifices made by the Soviet peoples to defeat Nazi Germany. They won the war. It is a scar that still affects the peoples of the former Soviet Union to this day and understandably so.

However, I do have a university degree in history that concentrated in this time period and included courses centered on the Soviet Union. You are misinformed if you believe, or were taught, that Soviet atrocities were exceptions rather than the rule. I know from my studies, from historical documents that were cited, that even the official Red Army newspaper - sorry, it's been 30 years so I can't remember all the specific details - overtly encouraged Red Army soldiers to extract revenge once they entered German territory. Furthermore, I also know of this from primary sources, such as Germans who told me what they witnessed first-hand. One of them included my uncle who was not a Nazi, but conscripted into the Wehrmacht at 17 in 1943. He was taken prisoner at Königsberg (Kalinsgrad) in 1945 and held in a Soviet POW camp until 1950. He was a farm boy, not a Hitler-loving Nazi. By the way, he also spoke of the German atrocities that he witnessed.

Please do not take any of this as an attempt to apologize for Nazi crimes in the war, but let us not be blinded by the crimes that seem to occur in very war, by every nation. Combat often brings out great and tragic stories of heroism and comradery, but even more frequently the worst in man. It is not a competition of "who was worse." The Germans began the war, and unlike in 1914, there cannot be any debate about it this time.

I won't get into the current conflict in Ukraine as this is not a forum for political discussion, but it saddens me deeply to read about the suffering and loss on both sides. To hear familiar place names and to know that that ground is being steeped in blood once again...

Finally, when/if a Soviet campaign is made, I would fully expect the reverse to be told from their POV, and not expect anyone to say, "But Stalin did..." Suffering is suffering all the world over. I think it better that we recognize the suffering that all endured, rather than follow the false apologetic histories for any of the perpetrators.

[Rokosovsky]

Hello, I understand you.

[Rokosovsky]

Hello Pavel,

I understand your point of view. Many in the West do not fully appreciate or are aware of the unbelievable sacrifices made by the Soviet peoples to defeat Nazi Germany. They won the war. It is a scar that still affects the peoples of the former Soviet Union to this day and understandably so.

However, I do have a university degree in history that concentrated in this time period and included courses centered on the Soviet Union. You are misinformed if you believe, or were taught, that Soviet atrocities were exceptions rather than the rule. I know from my studies, from historical documents that were cited, that even the official Red Army newspaper - sorry, it's been 30 years so I can't remember all the specific details - overtly encouraged Red Army soldiers to extract revenge once they entered German territory. Furthermore, I also know of this from primary sources, such as Germans who told me what they witnessed first-hand. One of them included my uncle who was not a Nazi, but conscripted into the Wehrmacht at 17 in 1943. He was taken prisoner at Königsberg (Kalinsgrad) in 1945 and held in a Soviet POW camp until 1950. He was a farm boy, not a Hitler-loving Nazi. By the way, he also spoke of the German atrocities that he witnessed.

Please do not take any of this as an attempt to apologize for Nazi crimes in the war, but let us not be blinded by the crimes that seem to occur in very war, by every nation. Combat often brings out great and tragic stories of heroism and comradery, but even more frequently the worst in man. It is not a competition of "who was worse." The Germans began the war, and unlike in 1914, there cannot be any debate about it this time.

I won't get into the current conflict in Ukraine as this is not a forum for political discussion, but it saddens me deeply to read about the suffering and loss on both sides. To hear familiar place names and to know that that ground is being steeped in blood once again...

Finally, when/if a Soviet campaign is made, I would fully expect the reverse to be told from their POV, and not expect anyone to say, "But Stalin did..." Suffering is suffering all the world over. I think it better that we recognize the suffering that all endured, rather than follow the false apologetic histories for any of the perpetrators.

Hello, I certainly agree with most of what you said, but until the end we hardly know how it really was. But I will say one thing, the Russian people are very kind, and even despite the agenda of politicians in those days, our people tried to treat the Germans prisoners and ordinary people well, and in other countries too. And the fact that you wrote such instructions and appeals as in those newspapers and magazines, so it was more likely that the fight against Nazism was meant, just a fight, to raise morale, etc., this does not mean that the Soviet people went with thoughts only to take revenge, the Soviet people went to the west to destroy fascism and liberate the peoples of Europe from it and wished only good for the Western peoples.

[adiekmann]

Hello, I certainly agree with most of what you said, but until the end we hardly know how it really was. But I will say one thing, the Russian people are very kind, and even despite the agenda of politicians in those days, our people tried to treat the Germans prisoners and ordinary people well, and in other countries too. And the fact that you wrote such instructions and appeals as in those newspapers and magazines, so it was more likely that the fight against Nazism was meant, just a fight, to raise morale, etc., this does not mean that the Soviet people went with thoughts only to take revenge, the Soviet people went to the west to destroy fascism and liberate the peoples of Europe from it and wished only good for the Western peoples.

There are good people of all nations/ethnicities in the world. I believe most people are good, but we fall victim to the propaganda of governments whose agendas it is to divide us for various reasons (money, religion, power, corporate interests, ideology, distraction, etc.). Is it the fault of our leadership? Or something more fundamental to our species? Humans have been fighting each other and coming up with BS reasons to hate one another since the beginning of our time on the planet. Why is that?

My uncle was NOT treated well in his five years of captivity. He could hardly speak of it and my cousin says many decades later she would hear him awake in the middle of the night screaming of the mistreatment he suffered. In other words, it still haunted him forty years later. When I say the Soviets/Russians committed atrocities during/after the war, I do not mean to condemn the whole Russian people. But I gave you only one example. I know others, and not just soldiers, who told me stories of their experiences during and/or right after the war. There was good reason why German troops (and many civilians for that matter) made every effort to reach the Western Allies lines to surrender to them instead. This is not made up or exaggerated.

My brother went to Russia several years ago on a business trip and had great things to say about the people. The Russian people have had a difficult history, unless you were one of the select few on top. I have long believed that the more people can interact with people of other nations, religions, cultures, etc. the better we all are for it. We all share far more in common than what separates us.
That starts with recognizing the humanity within us all, and recognizing our faults. We can all learn from one another.

Pavel, this will be my final post on this matter. I wish you all the best!

-Andrew

[o_t_d_x]

I dont think, that stalin or the soviet state encouraged their soldiers to rape and kill (greater)german civilians.

They were communists and the german underclass had to be freed of hitler, in their point of view. After all their final goal was the world revolution of all underclasses. Killing and raping foreign underclass wont be the best tactic to achiev that. So i am convinced that its right, that russian soldiers who where caught killing or raping civilians or pows, have been shot.

Did they get all ? Of course not, not even close. I am very sure, that your claim, that it have been only few, is wrong. Millions of german and austrian women claimed that they had been raped by russians. My grandma too. But of course i understand, that the evil that you do to others, will come back to you, sooner or later. We killed and raped, so we were killed and raped. Thats very human.

Btw.: I saw a doku on the german state tv, zdf, that admitted that many american soldiers raped french, german and austrian women. In addition the doku claimed, that black man who raped where brought to justice, white soldiers not.

Btw2: Not all in the west like what our fuxxing goverments do. The problem is, that the EU is a very non democratic institution. Only base democracy is REAL democracy, this representative thing is only a dictatorship of the rich, an oligarchy. If Europe truly would be a democracy, then the EU should have ASKED THE EUROPEAN people IF they want sanctions and IF they want to support the ukrain. But they didnt, they dont like real democracy, because the will of the people is the enemy of an oligarchy and the rich. (and of course our dictators are the rich...we have no democracy in reality, these lobby axxholes decide more then all votes together, all lobbyists should be shot for high treason)

So the loosers in wars are always the same: the underclasses of the countrys, no matter which side. I would stop all help for the ukrain at once, because it absolutly makes no difference if corrupt russian elites or corrupt ukrainian elites lie to and exploit the ukrain people. All this shit can lead to the end of all our lives in the worst case, and dont think that couldnt happen accidently, it nearly happened in the past. (operation able archer) Its just not worth the risk, maybe biden learns that too, sooner or later. Because IF russia strikes ag. europe with nukes, then they will hit the us too. They are their arch enemys, wouldnt make much sense to spare them.

My final advice to the russian people: Make a revolution,force a BASE democracy and you the russian people, can say to the americans: You have no democracy, you are not free, but we are. Wouldnt that be a change ? Russia the land of the free. And we in the west should do the same. Our goverments are our enemys, not the soldiers of other countrys, they are just underclass, without power. Just as we are.

[Ryba666]

Also soviets attack Poland in 17 september (soviets was a ally with germans), also attack Finns in december of 1939 and occupied baltic state. Also i must mention about genocide on Polish officers mady by NKVD in 1940 in Katyń.

[Kerensky]

I dont think, that stalin or the soviet state encouraged their soldiers to rape and kill (greater)german civilians.

Ilya Ehrenburg.

[Jammero]

Also soviets attack Poland in 17 september (soviets was a ally with germans), also attack Finns in december of 1939 and occupied baltic state. Also i must mention about genocide on Polish officers mady by NKVD in 1940 in Katyń.

You are right in general but no, soviets and germans were not allies. The pact was not about ally it was about dividing territories and not to attack each other. Allies are not signing such pacts...

[Jammero]

Hello, I apologize in advance for bad English. I am an old fan from Russia since the first part of this series, but I did not expect propaganda in the second part of the game. Now I will explain what I mean. I don’t know here in the review it was necessary to write or create another topic or write directly to the publisher or developers, it is not known who did it, so I decided to write it in the review for now, I will be glad if someone tells you where it is better to write with this question. In general, the essence of the problem, in the Vienna Offensive mission, in the original it is shown that Iva Brandt was killed, tortured, raped and that Soviet soldiers did it for the atrocities that the axis did on the territory of the USSR and they say that the Soviet government would not do anything with such crimes of their soldiers on the territory of Hungary and Germany. In my opinion, this is either a poor knowledge of history from the publisher or developer, because it is not known which of them added this to this mission, or propaganda in order to denigrate the Soviet army, as usual in our modern time.
I am a fairly educated person, I know history well, and now I will briefly tell you how it really was. Yes, there were such cases as murders and rapes on the territory of Germany, Hungary, etc., but there were a small number of them, the second, almost all of these cases were massively punished in the Soviet army to the point of being shot. That is, the mission clearly shows untruth or propaganda that they say no one was punished for this, as I wrote above, they were punished and how, all the more you need to understand that this is a war and such cases could be in any army, both in the Soviet and in the American and in the British, but normal educated people who know history well and are in their right mind will not, because of a couple of hundred such cases, denigrate the entire Soviet army and its exploits or any other allied army because of this.
But it is the Soviet army that stands out in the mission and not a word is said about the atrocities of the Germans themselves and especially the Hungarians on the territory of the USSR. The Germans and their allies spread two world wars, killed 20 million people in the USSR, and after that the publisher of this game or one of the developers adds in this mission such a lie trying to show what a good and peaceful Germans and Hungarians were in the West, although in history most Germans and Hungarians supported Hitler and their Nazi authorities and turned a blind eye to the camps, etc. And these civilians were far from civilians, and I repeat, yes, this does not negate what those soldiers of the USSR did, but I repeat, as I wrote above, for this we were shot in the army and no one let it go, and in the allied army, also for rape and looting was shot, but this does not underestimate the exploits of these armies and these peoples. And I want to say the last thing in this story. In the Russian translation of this mission, it does not say that she was raped, etc., that is, there is a feeling that in order to avoid conflict, a slightly different translation was made for the Russian player, and propaganda was poured into the ears of the Western player to show that they say look how good the West is, what advice is bad.
In general, you should be ashamed of the publisher or developer for such things, as you did not expect this from you. What your troops did in the world during the two world wars and what they did especially in Poland and Russia, how many millions of people died in Poland and Russia, especially both soldiers and civilians, and you are still starting to raise the topic that Soviet soldiers tortured someone, etc., although these cases were few and they were punished, in general, you should be ashamed of the West. Even take the same Ukraine as the West and NATO is now pumping weapons to Ukraine and hushing up its crimes since 2013 in the Donbass and denigrating Russia, all the same Western Goebel propaganda. Dear players, if there are those among you who know history well, do not listen to this propaganda, they are trying to completely denigrate the USSR and whitewash the West and push the West against Russia in a modern war. I didn’t want to say anything about politics, but this mission about Iva Brand outraged me how they brought it up.

P.S Sincerely, Pavel fan from Russia with love.

Павел, понимаю Ваше недовольство и где-то даже разделяю. Воибо тогда надо больше писать и о зверствах нацистов. Но вам верно ответили - это точка зрения немецкой стороны.

Про Украину сейчас - это зря, имхо. Жалко всех, но тушить конфликт полноценной войной - только "гений" Путин мог придумать...

И да, меня никто в преступлении начала этой т.н. "СВО" не разубедит, воибо по официальным данным самих ЛДНР за 2021 год погибло всего 8 гражданских от бомбежек и т.д., т.е. даже не на уровне уличной преступности. Эти статьи можете нагуглить и сейчас, они до сих пор висят, так что это не пропаганда. А сейчас гражданских гибнет в сотни раз больше, не говоря уж о сотнях тысячах военных с обеих сторон. Поэтому очевидно, что это всё не ради людей делалось. Для чего? Я не знаю, Путин и Ко, похоже, сами толком не знают, потому что постоянно путаются в показаниях. То одна цель, то другая, то третья. Скорее похоже на корпоративную войну за ресурсы и ЧСВ.

[Jammero]

Another fact is that gamedevs were doing ao45 much shorter than for example aoscw and ao1939, what is strange while we had much more space and territory to make battles and much more powerfull enemy. I am not saying that it should be with 20-30 missions, but if they wanted to finish that side of conflict than we should receive at least more than 11 missions.

My guess is there might be some West-DLC, maybe just one, since I cant imagine how you fill up 3 years just on the western front. Thats why you never really leave the eastern front and there is still a lot to play. But like I said, just make peace with the russian without conquering moscow is sad und not plausible.
"Hey sorry, we invaded your country by mistake and killed millions of soldiers and even more civilians. Lets make peace!" I dont think so.
But like I said before I think the guys are game designers and creating a ahistorical storyline is some bonus for us, so it's ok.

I have always thought it interesting that everybody assumes that the Soviets would have given up if the Germans took Moscow. I never really thought so. I think they would have continued to fight. It may have hindered them as it was a transportation and communication hub, but they had already moved the factories to the Urals and there's little reason to believe they would have given up. They didn't when Napoleon took the capital. But what would it have taken to effectively end Soviet participation in the war? Taking over the whole country? I don't think that's plausible for the Germans either.

At first, I thought the recovery of the A-bomb in the Munich scenario was to lead to the Germans back-engineering their own atomic weapons. That, may have forced peace with not only the Soviets, but the United States and Britain too.

Wonder how the US campaign in the Pacific DLC will end? Do you save up all of your CD points and get the A-bomb to end it, or do you have a grand invasion of the Japanese home islands?

No, soviets would not given up losing Moscow but the war would be near the end in fact. Everybody forgets about Moscow coal basin. Donbass is german's now, trains just stopped. No mobility for the armies. Plus no lendlease through North. Next step is Stalingrad, frontline is poor and narrow. The beginning of the end.

And plan was not to take all USSR, but to improve fuel balance by Russian south and take out last ally of Great Britain on continent. The line was Astrakhan-Archangelsk, what would be with Russians beyond it Germans didn't care. They even didn't want to kill all them beyond the line. Russians should die themselves there.

[DefiantXYX]

Even take the same Ukraine as the West and NATO is now pumping weapons to Ukraine and hushing up its crimes since 2013 in the Donbass and denigrating Russia, all the same Western Goebel propaganda. Dear players, if there are those among you who know history well, do not listen to this propaganda, they are trying to completely denigrate the USSR and whitewash the West and push the West against Russia in a modern war. I didn’t want to say anything about politics, but this mission about Iva Brand outraged me how they brought it up.

Hmmm strange, you got access to this game but not to some objective news? But I guess everything that happens in ukraine are just some cases and everything is completely enlightened by the russians and I guess every soldier still gets shot, who did something wrong?

Btw. more than 1 Million german prisoners died in russia and you talk about just some cases and russia tried the best to treat the prisoners very well? That is ridiculous.

This campaign is shown from the perspective of some good german soldiers. Of course the reportings are subjective, but there are a lot of hints of german war crimes. In the first years you can even take some influence of it, sadly the later DLCs never picked that up. If Wagner and you as the generals would have done more to safe lives and raise against the regime the end would be more smooth.

But we should get back to the topic. I didnt really read some feedbacks yet, are you guys happy with this DLC?

[Grondel]

But we should get back to the topic. I didnt really read some feedbacks yet, are you guys happy with this DLC?

no.

sers,
thomas

[RVallant]

Always suspicious when propaganda bots come along and advocate for certain factions...

It's quite amusing that most World War II-themed games tend to paint the German Wehrmacht as "heroic," disregarding their horrendous crimes. Yet, given the alternative-history nature, having a few "virtuous German heroes" isn't too objectionable.

I'd say the problem is that if you want to talk about what the Nazis had done, you would not make a Panzer Corps 2 at all, do some Soviet Corps...oh no the Soviets were all evil you can't make that in a game try some Allied Corps...oh no the Allies also murdered their POWs and bombed civilians...I hope I made myself clear regarding this. If you bring one thing up, you will be forced to talk about it on all sides or perople would say it's unfair/you are hiding the truth/being bias/making propaganda for someone/gloryfying something etc etc. And the more you say, the more possible you can get someone unhappy or feel insulted so they refuse to buy your product.
You can't let players get involved in those shits even though they did exist. A few hints is the best, but it must be avoided to talk directly about the war crimes the Wehrmacht has done in a game in German perspective, so you don't put players in moral dilemma that can cause trouble for the company in real life, where one complain hurts you more than a hundred praise benefits. People coming to play this game does not want to be told about that, it's simply off topic. "don't play this game it forces you to kill people for the Nazis", and you are done for.

btw, Manstein did mentioned it once, very slightly, in Zhitomir on the path to defeat:

To state that German occupation administration has created far more enemies than friends is an understatement, and we are now paying the price for that.

I think, that it is usually better to be straightforward with historical events. In fact, I think if you make games like Panzer Corps, you have a platform to showcase the horrors of the ideologies of the war of that time, from all the sides that were involved, and I'm not saying they have to take a stance that the Allies were top tier, woop de doo.

You don't have to force the player to partake in it personally, or even 'aid' it explicitly. I think PZC2 has done a very stalwart job of showcasing this to people in the know.

As you referenced, Manstein notes that the occupation has left them with many enemies ~ if I remember my history classes right, there were plenty of initial support from various soviet states when the Nazis invaded, that ended up getting some retribution from the Soviets when the war swung the other way.

Also, we see references to the Collection groups (I cannot for the life of me spell any of the German words) when we do the Polish and French campaigns, if I remember right in '39 we have a prestige sink for conveniently 'releasing' the prisoners we collect instead of turning them over for 'processing.'

Also, in '45 if you know the history behind the Hungary occupation, our partaking in that effectively sends millions more Jewish people to be processed.

The fact is, in WW2, playing as the German Army, even if you want to try and say you're not part of the Nazi ideas and themes, you are conducting their ground/air campaigns, you are facilitating the conquests and extermination of various ethnic groups and people. Too many war games shy away from this fact, (Hearts of Iron for example has a strict policy of pretending it simply doesn't happen) and to me this is entirely disrespectful to the people we lost during the wars.

It is also, I think, partially why we are seeing a resurgent of right wing thinking in real life today across the world, people have been allowed for too long to pretend that y'know, nothing really happened, nothing really went on, or if it did, it wasn't THAT bad etc etc.

Anyway, I'm going off on one and I don't want the moderators to throw the ban stick around.

At the end of the day, I think these topics need to be handled and handled respectfully ~ yes, all sides committed atrocities, we see this with the reference to the UK bombing campaigns, the SS groups, the occupation, etc etc.

I think the developers and writers have done a very solid job in implying/showing what they can through the Axis Operations, and I hope in the future, they will be emboldened to showcase it more directly (as they did with the massacre of 42 corps ~ that was particularly harrowing), because telling the truth/showcasing history should never be something that people should be afraid of IMO.

[Kerensky]

I think the developers and writers have done a very solid job in implying/showing what they can through the Axis Operations, and I hope in the future, they will be emboldened to showcase it more directly (as they did with the massacre of 42 corps ~ that was particularly harrowing), because telling the truth/showcasing history should never be something that people should be afraid of IMO.

That was definitely an attempt at visual story telling to work alongside the text of that scenario.

[RVallant]

I think the developers and writers have done a very solid job in implying/showing what they can through the Axis Operations, and I hope in the future, they will be emboldened to showcase it more directly (as they did with the massacre of 42 corps ~ that was particularly harrowing), because telling the truth/showcasing history should never be something that people should be afraid of IMO.

That was definitely an attempt at visual story telling to work alongside the text of that scenario.

It worked for me, the writing hit home as well, a senseless waste of life, but that was barbaric to roll over people with tanks, sheesh.

I am looking forward to seeing such notes in the Pacific, and perhaps if it is made, the Soviet campaigns, so we get to see it all.

Anyway!

As of five minutes ago I just finished 1945, Historical, taken the Vienna route. It ties things up nicely, but I do have to ask, was Rudel's gold robbery something that actually happened? Was fleeing to Spain for the officers and deserters actually something they could do?

I'm aware that the vast majority of Germans really did want to surrender to the Allies rather than the Soviets, but I hadn't considered routes to Spain.

Ida Brandt didn't deserve to die the way she did, that was a nasty way to go, quite sad to see, but important to showcase all the same. I have a save file at the last turn of that mission, so I might go it alone to see the Berlin conclusion. Seelow Heights was sad, none of my officers stayed with me? Boo!

After this, no doubt I will have a break from the game and then return to my save file in 1942 to do the a-historical route.

As of now, my hour count is 430 hours, so just about halfway to how long I played the first game (795 hours). I am looking forward to any potential 1946, and of course Pacific ~ but my personal desire is an Allied and Soviets campaign. One day, perhaps.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

As of five minutes ago I just finished 1945, Historical, taken the Vienna route. It ties things up nicely, but I do have to ask, was Rudel's gold robbery something that actually happened? Was fleeing to Spain for the officers and deserters actually something they could do?

I'm aware that the vast majority of Germans really did want to surrender to the Allies rather than the Soviets, but I hadn't considered routes to Spain.

The Rat Line did exist in real history, which was exactly a route helping Germans leave the war from Spain.

[RVallant]

As of five minutes ago I just finished 1945, Historical, taken the Vienna route. It ties things up nicely, but I do have to ask, was Rudel's gold robbery something that actually happened? Was fleeing to Spain for the officers and deserters actually something they could do?

I'm aware that the vast majority of Germans really did want to surrender to the Allies rather than the Soviets, but I hadn't considered routes to Spain.

The Rat Line did exist in real history, which was exactly a route helping Germans leave the war from Spain.

That sent me down the wikipedia rabbit hole, interesting topics to read about. I knew of the escape to South American nations, but I didn't realise there were organisations set up to help them evade warcrime prosecutions. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.