Lost dice

[AlanYork]

Apologies if this has been covered before.

If you have a Burgundian mixed BG with front rank of 4 defensive spear and rear rank of 4 longbow that's 12 dice at impact when somebody hits them; 8 dice from the front rank and 4 from overhead shooting. But if the lads become disrupted then they have to lose 1 dice per 3 so it's down to 8 dice.

Where do the 4 deducted dice come from? The guys in hand to hand or the guys shooting from a back rank?

The reason I ask is that back ranker shooters may well have a higher dice score to required to hit than their front rank comrades as there is minus for overhead shooting.

[hazelbark]

The rules say proportional whenever possible or something like that.
So 2 must come off the front rank and 1 from the rear. Then owner's discretion for the 4th.

[hammy]

The rules say proportional whenever possible or something like that.
So 2 must come off the front rank and 1 from the rear. Then owner's discretion for the 4th.

Close but no cigar Dan.

There are 8 front rank dice and 4 rear rank dice. Lose 1 per 3 front rank and 1 per 3 back rank and you end up with 2 spare front rank and one spare back rank dice. As you have 3 dice you must still lose one and you must lose one of those you have the most of i.e. a front rank dice. You only get to choose if you have even numbers so if you have 4 dice two each on two different POAs then you can choose which one to lose.

[richafricanus]

Out of interest, how many dice do the Burgundians fight with in the melee? Obviously 4 from the front rank spear, but do the longbow fight as well and if so at what factors?

[lawrenceg]

Th RAW state you must lose dice in proportion if possible.

If it is not possible, the only constraint is that you must keep 1 dice for each different target BG or part of the target BG for which a different POA applies.

There is no requirement to get as close as possible to proportional if it is not possible to get it exact.

It is not possible to lose 4 dice in a 2:1 ratio, so if you lost three rear rank dice and one front rank then you would be legal within the RAW.

As all dice at both POAs are at the same part of the enemy BG, I think you would be legal to lose all the rear rank dice.

IMO this was not the authors' intent, but it is what they wrote, and somehow it got through beta testing.

[willb]

Th RAW state you must lose dice in proportion if possible.

If it is not possible, the only constraint is that you must keep 1 dice for each different target BG or part of the target BG for which a different POA applies.

There is no requirement to get as close as possible to proportional if it is not possible to get it exact.

It is not possible to lose 4 dice in a 2:1 ratio, so if you lost three rear rank dice and one front rank then you would be legal within the RAW.

As all dice at both POAs are at the same part of the enemy BG, I think you would be legal to lose all the rear rank dice.

IMO this was not the authors' intent, but it is what they wrote, and somehow it got through beta testing.

If the rear rank has a different POA than the front rank, then you could not lose all the rear rank dice according to the second sentence. If the POA's are the same then it does not matter which dice are lost as long as they comply with the part about losing them per target. The or in the first sentence is inclusive, thus you must keep 1 die for each different target BG for which a different POA applies.

[hazelbark]

The rules say proportional whenever possible or something like that.
So 2 must come off the front rank and 1 from the rear. Then owner's discretion for the 4th.

Close but no cigar Dan.

There are 8 front rank dice and 4 rear rank dice. Lose 1 per 3 front rank and 1 per 3 back rank and you end up with 2 spare front rank and one spare back rank dice. As you have 3 dice you must still lose one and you must lose one of those you have the most of i.e. a front rank dice. You only get to choose if you have even numbers so if you have 4 dice two each on two different POAs then you can choose which one to lose.

Interesting theory Hammy, but as Lawrence points out, where do you get this?

[marioslaz]

The rules say proportional whenever possible or something like that.
So 2 must come off the front rank and 1 from the rear. Then owner's discretion for the 4th.

Close but no cigar Dan.

There are 8 front rank dice and 4 rear rank dice. Lose 1 per 3 front rank and 1 per 3 back rank and you end up with 2 spare front rank and one spare back rank dice. As you have 3 dice you must still lose one and you must lose one of those you have the most of i.e. a front rank dice. You only get to choose if you have even numbers so if you have 4 dice two each on two different POAs then you can choose which one to lose.

Interesting theory Hammy, but as Lawrence points out, where do you get this?

I would say p 94 (last 2 bullets of allocating combat dice paragraph). Anyway, IMO proportional reduction should be the rules even if not written in the rules.

[ottomanmjm]

Out of interest, how many dice do the Burgundians fight with in the melee? Obviously 4 from the front rank spear, but do the longbow fight as well and if so at what factors?

The longbow get 4 dice and fight at the same POA as the front rank. However they do not count as a second rank of Spear so there is no Spear +POA for the front rank spear.

[marioslaz]

Out of interest, how many dice do the Burgundians fight with in the melee? Obviously 4 from the front rank spear, but do the longbow fight as well and if so at what factors?

The longbow get 4 dice and fight at the same POA as the front rank. However they do not count as a second rank of Spear so there is no Spear +POA for the front rank spear.

Yes, and this means that don't Burgundians fight as front rank spears, but that front rank spears fight as Burgundians