Leros on tournament settings

[stevefprice]

I think giving the Germans a quick win option is not the best idea.

In addition to Erik beating me in 4 turns I played myself at hotseat doing what I'd imagine a standard British defense to prevent landings.

They did and gave the German landing a kicking, but with 3 stukas and 3 Me109s, plus various gun boats the Germans can easily clear defenders from HQ and drop the paras into a position to take it by turn 4.

As a German player vs Erik I resigned in the with 2 turns to go. My 1.7 version tactics failed as large numbers of British reserves in transport are able to land swiftly and prevent the Germans grinding forwards in the NE of the island. Points wise I was just in the lead but would have lost as I had nothing to hold the locations.

The change to the gun batteries to be the shorter ranged land and naval guns rather than just anti-naval guns is also very significant as they are able to continue to pound the Germans as they land and get close.

So based on the current games I'd say the Germans can now get a quick easy win but otherwise will find it quite hard and the Brits have a much better chance, neither of which I'd venture to suggest is historical.

That said I suspect it needs far more testing.

Erik, I've added a link the replays of my hotseat game against myself. I risked damage to the German aircraft and paras but knowing I had more than enough fire power to force the Brits out. I expect Admiral Yamamato would find a way to do in 3 turns

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yhoxz2eqnhujl ... s.rec?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/27le259twxxnw ... s.rec?dl=0

[pupski]

Let's see how those Germans beat the British in 4 turns
At the start you cannot place all British pilots, that is right, right?

[stevefprice]

Let's see how those Germans beat the British in 4 turns
At the start you cannot place all British pilots, that is right, right?

Correct, you have to choose who you want in the seat

Ditto for the Germans now as there are more pilots than aircraft

[Erik2]

Guys, here's an updated version.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/56kpo1uqykz4l ... 2.zip?dl=0

Added more secondary objectives.
On-map Allied AI-controlled Greek/Italian partisans.
More elaborate unit exit/redeployment.
Increased German unit experience.
Added German supply ship.
Increased resource income.
Amphibious landings on difficult terrain prohibited.

[pupski]

What a nice scenario. I found one bug I think. I couldn't get to or buy from the South Africa tab in the purchase screen as the British. The other 3 tabs work fine but I can not reach or buy from the SA tab. Like replacing a crashed plane or looking at what else is available. It keeps showing the last pressed tab, the British units for example. Fun scenario, nice difficult challenge. A bit tricky with all those Stuka's bombing units on victory hexes but I am still alive, for now..

[Erik2]

Thanks.

The SA issue is probably due to this faction having no air units. I borrowed the fighter unit from the UK in the editor.
Reforming a dead fighter unit might be tricky as the SA resource income is pretty low.

The latest version has a number of silver flag locations scattered around the island. They should give the Germans 1 VP pr turn pr location if they bother to occupy them. Assigning 1 unit pr location may be just enough. Any German players tried that?

[pupski]

I was thinking of replacing the fighter with a recon-plane when available but I couldn't even look at the tab. Still that tab is there. Other tabs work even if you can not buy units from them. Haven't fully noticed the silver flags, it is such a complicated battle with so many options. Next time I will keep my droptroopers, uh, parachute guys alive .

[pupski]

It is a very nice battle. If you don't forget looking at the scoring it is very challenging as well. In our game at the moment we are almost equal in points. You almost forget that it is about keeping the objectives and not killing the units. I have bad weeks reading flags because I only understood that the bright gold beach flag was a victory point as well.

A bit tricky that there can be a sudden victory if the unit in the town is bombed and a paratrooper would land in the center. Almost happened in our game but I survived with 1 live left.

[pupski]

Oh wait, you still score for units!! Oh nooo...

[stevefprice]

Good fun Pupski, thanks for the paired game.

I'm still convinced the changes have shifted the balance too much towards the Brits. As the German player I lost although I was within a whisker of a turn 4 win with the para drop. I suspect it's doable every time against a player that has not played the revised scenario. My objectives gave me a red X on capturing primary Leros and the HQ locations. Score was like 30 to Brits and 26 to Germans. As per our game Erik, I was in the lead for ages then it got whittled down.

As British player I screwed up and had a cruiser to the South that was trapped. My mistake and it meant I was a ship short all game. May be worth considering opening up one of those blocking coastal waters to cater for numpties like me. In reality the ship would never have been stuck.

This one showed as a draw and all my primary locations registered a question mark despite clearly defending Leros Island and holding 3 key strong point objectives. Also points for destroying enemy didn't seem to register, certainly not on the result notification panel.

Leros Tournament 1.jpg (602.49 KiB) Viewed 908 times

The gun batteries are lethal and just drain German performance. Perhaps 2 of each type rather then either 4 vs naval or 4 vs infantry & naval?

Either way, history suggests the Germans should win on average, and certainly not with a 4 turn coup de grace. The Brits don't have that available to them, I'd expect lots of people feeling that's not right, remember the St Lo trick in the previous tournament :-/

[pupski]

I thought the units killed were not counted at first, I didn't notice them in the scoring so in the end I focused on the flag on the beach. Not sure what the score would be if you count all the lost German units . Funny to hear about the stuck ship. Sometimes I saw it's shadow but I was afraid to go and have a look but it was stuck, yes, shouldn't be possible.

By the way, I never got this Draw screen, game is stuck in waiting for opponent at turn 19.
Great to see it, I was aiming for it, or tried to reach that beach flag for +1 point in the last turn.

[pupski]

One point, I never received all these partisans and my opponent did. I wonder if that is... right/fair. I had no problem with it but we played a different scenario in a certain way.

[stevefprice]

One point, I never received all these partisans and my opponent did. I wonder if that is... right/fair. I had no problem with it but we played a different scenario in a certain way.

I've not looked in the editor for the triggers but I think it's related to Leros Town. In pre tourney settings games I've always assault with te Germans in the North East and South East, primarily to get the supply points, then I don't worry about supply boats. In those games the Greeks and Italians don't show, or if they do they vanish quickly.

In this game they helped me a lot but I'd say did not match their historical counter parts who did stirling work. Perhaps there should be more of them?

Sadly in the real battle it appears all the senior Italian officers were summarily executed if captured . I assume because they'd switched sides.

[pupski]

Ah yes, the commanders... I had so much commanders that were in prison, in the hospital or not able to find a fitting unit that I couldn't scroll down to the one commander at the end (let call him guy number 7) that I could have used. Is there a secret scroll button that I don't know of? You see him while minimized in the row but when you click the row maximises and I can not reach down to click him. If there is a button or way to click commander 6 and down please let me know!

[pupski]

Received the end game mail today. I found something buggy, will put the picture in a new topic.

[Erik2]

Nice discussion. I'm taking notes.

Re points for destroying units. The tournie rules were imported from the Wake scenario so hpefully they should work as well as in that official scenario...
I'll check the triggers.

Re partisans.
The latest versions have the Greek and Italian partisan units on-map, no random trigger.