Moderator: Panzer Corps 2 Moderators
The first Hero for 109z is 'SuperiorManeuver'.BarbarianHunter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:05 am No Retaliation + Double Move + Double Attack + 109Z = UFO tier aircraft.
This evolves constantly. I'd need to sit down and review things once more as at this point I do not agree with some of my own reasoning from earlier (Readiness is at least B+ and certainly not D!), plus my play-style evolved a lot. New AO campaigns put some of the traits into new perspective and challenge runs did it even more.
You are OC entitled to your opinion, and yes, this is a hero that requires a specific way of playing, but given that it's UTTERLY, INSANELY* powerful if played correctly... if you don't want to use it, fine, but it's not a weak hero by any stretch of the imagination.FB wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:30 pmAs I said, you have the right to have your own favorite things, that suit your taste, like Provocator and have fun doing it. But if you like it, it will not make it optimal or the best.DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:26 pm If you use provocateur wisely the AI will wipe out itself in a few turns. That works in any year, on any map.
If I play wisely I will wipe out the AI in an area faster and in less turns than using Provocator and waiting for the AI to do it. Just outmaneuvering, encirclement and combined forces tactics, which was the real Blitzkrieg. And I can do it easily in 2 (or maybe even 3) areas in the same time, while you probably do not have 2-3 Provocator units.
One use of this hero is to prevent the impact of Katyusha swarms around 1942 an 1943. They might not do much damage, but if 3-4 hit a target, the suppression adds up, which can be risky. Still that's rather limited, since it only matters in tight formations and Katyushas tens to pick softer targets anyway when they can. The other is for the ultimate roadblock unit for Saarbrücken style missions or urban combat, where No Surrender/No Retreat combo can prevent the AI from getting through narrow spaces, as it does not know how to rotate front troops in any way. Still, I'd say the Survivor award comes in handy way more often than No Surrender, at least for me.Kerensky wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:59 am Does the No Surrender hero increase in value if the enemy uses vicious surrender mechanics? While I'll never, ever put Overwhelming Attack and Envelopment together on the same enemy unit. I've been trying out Shock Tactics on some artillery pieces to creating a real 'pin' effect.
And oh boy does it hurt. A lot of these extreme veteran deaths would have been prevented with a No Surrender hero of my own.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2976426773
I want to be careful not to be rude, but the entire concept of “breaking the game” when it’s single player seems fululky nonsensical to me. Find a certain hero trait over-powered? That has an extremely simple and fully integrated fix to that problem those that may be complaining the trait is too powerful (and caps just for emphasis because the answer cannot be stressed enough… DO NOT USE THAT HERO IF YOU THINK USING IT IS BREAKING THE GAME... or am I somehow massively missing some key point??Schwarzvogel wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:55 amExactly. Moreover, you aren't guaranteed to get any of those heroes in a campaign. I'm nearly through my historical campaign in the base game and I've never gotten a hero with Envelopment, Overwhelming Attack, First Strike, or Rapid Fire.Gfot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pmYou are not forced to assign those heroes to the same unit. You're also not forced to use the "broken" Verdeja. By asking for them to get MASSIVELY (your caps) nerfed, you're basically asking the devs to take away options from the people who actually enjoy those options. Instead of throwing terms like "ridiculous" and "pathetic" around, why don't you try to realize that different people have different ideas of what's fun and what's not, and respect them for it?impossible wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:50 pm there are ridiculous combos that breaks the game, out of which
- vigilant+ignore entrenchment on a tank
- envelopment + overwhelming attack on e.g. a recon ESPECIALLY coupled scavenger
- first strike+rapid fire on a fighter
are by far the most ridiulous. im sure there are many other combos which makes the game pathetically easy. also the verdeja 2 is a broken tank it needs to be MASSIVELY nerfed, its even better than the char b1.
As for Double Attack, I'd put that in "A" tier rather than "SS" since I don't find it to be as versatile as the Rapid Fire heroes since double attack can burn through ammo faster (whilst Rapid Fire doesn't consume extra ammo), and you aren't guaranteed to always find a second target in range to attack except with artillery and aircraft that have Double Move.
Regarding things which "break" the game, let's remember that this is single player we are talking about. You can play it however you damn well please. One can argue that General Traits like Master of Blitzkrieg similarly "break" the game by allowing your tanks to ignore minor rivers and take shortcuts. I've even seen some people claim that AA Veteran also "breaks" the game (it doesn't, as the rapid fire AA guns largely become dead weight once the tac bombers and fighters are gone as their AT values aren't strong enough to harm late-war tanks or even threaten 1943-era infantry much.)
Hope for another double attack, I think Pioniere with double attack and envelope would be priceless.What can I say, selecting "Aggressive deployment" as a strength. as I do, diminishes the returns for both Provocator and Camouflage and makes the gameplay more offensive oriented.nexusno2000 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:22 am
* The AI COMPLETELY ignores this hero and will gleefully commit SUICIDE with its best units, again and again. In this, it reminds me a lot of Camouflage.
Even if the AI did account for Provocateur, it would still be good as you'd lock the AI out of key avenues of attack.
YES!! Works best with both. So you can swap it between units as your needs for your current map require, or pick which you want it on more. Add a Double Attack hero to either as well, and watch the Soft Attack kills pile up!
In general, I find it is best on artillery, as it works both on offense and defense. Having it on counterbattery arty can just nuke the enemy's artillery, while having it on close support artillery can dissuade the enemy from even attempting to attack the unit(s) it is protecting. In particular scenarios (limited ground deployment, low slot limit early game, larger maps/maps with weird terrain, etc), it's better on strats
Strategic, since they are usually less used and lack exp, which affects the lethal rate of units that do mainly suppression damage. Lethal strategic bombers also allow you to nuke light AA with merely any damage taken, opening a safe zone for tactical bombers and fighters to operate within.
