Free France Campaign

[ColonelY]

But anyway not deploying HALF of the available troops, I think that definitely it's keeping (far) too many reserves.

Hints:
1. Often one of the key is to create some local superiority (in terms of number, and/or quality, of troops available at a certain point to crush easily and quickly the enemy units there)...

2. And don't forget either another important factor: the time (or rather here the number of turns) at disposal!

[ColonelY]

Anyway, keeping too many reserves (especially without knowing exactly for sure whether they will be able to reach the battlefield easily later or not! ) may have both immediate consequences: loosing time (probably several turns at least) & keeping the risk of granting the local superiority to the enemy thus taking probably more casualties and being even more delayed...

But now I understand (much) better what lies behind some of your comments about the scenarios Dakar (where I was at first trying to find some explanation based on possible trigger issues) and Gabon.
(Yeah, for example about Dakar: "units disappearing", "forced to rush at the end", suggesting several turns more, up to 55 from 48, or about Gabon: "enough turns for minor victory" (why "minor"?) or about the too few troops that have been sent to take the mine... By the way, there, as you've written, the recon plane may indeed be very, very useful!)

So, I would say, Jeff please continue to give us your feedback, but please also make sure you try to deploy most of your troops as soon as possible - reserves can always be kept directly on the map/battlefield as well!


And, most importantly, have fun!

[jeffoot77]

the probleme is : why not to have the possibility to deploy some troops after the turn 2 ? For example, in the Kura mission, if the player has underestimated the numbers of enemy defending the airfields, it is possible to send some troops to help from south. The more freedom in gameplay the player has, the more fun the game is.

edit: i finished the mission of Kura (rather pretty easy mission) but very cool mission. Just a little disapointed when I tried to encircle the fort to make easier the attack but nothing has happened. I thought the enemy would be diminished and change to "orange" ...

[bru888]

Jeff, good catch. In Kufra, I did not provide for deployment after Scenario Start. There is enough room for initial deployment of your entire force in the beginning - the Colonel is right about the advisability of usually deploying everything right away - and that is what I had in mind here.

But you are also correct in that the player should have the option of keeping forces in reserve, so best practice is to offer deployment hexes for the entire scenario. I will fix that in the next update.

Sorry, though, about the fort. It is indeed well-supplied and self-sufficient. No shortcuts; you must attack!

[ColonelY]

[...] in the Kura mission, if the player has underestimated the numbers of enemy defending the airfields, it is possible to send some troops to help from south. [...]

Sure.

But then... okay, well, let's imagine for a while that the player has underestimated the number of enemies defending the AFs... that may be (or rather should then be) because most of the units of the player have been sent roughly towards the North... then, two options: either call some of these units back, following the main roads, so that they may reinforce around the AFs "from South" (exactly as you suggest seeing them coming)... or, instead of "calling back" units, sent a detachment roughly straight towards the east (from their northern intermediate position)... there are roads there as well! (And you aren't even forced to follow roads anyway, but it gives an idea.)

Obviously, the ideal is to try to send from start groups that are strong and complete enough (including various support units like ATs and AAs) to be quite autonomous. Too weak groups won't be of much use... and that's another reason to avoir keeping too many units back. Sending directly rather "autonomous" groups of units will then limit the movement of "reinforcements" from one sector of the battlefield to another and, therefore, save time as well.

Besides, in this scenario, there is a (really) good reason to send directly a solid bunch of troops towards the airfields... it's written in the corresponding objective description, i.e. the "Destroy Buma Aerodromo", which reads "All three airstrips that comprise Buma Aerodromo must be demolished to complete this objective. Doing so will end the Italian air attacks." => "DOING SO WILL END THE ITALIAN AIR ATTACKS." Obviously, to take less losses on the way, the sooner the better. To accomplish this soon, or "sooner", then enough means are required, and so...

*******

[...] i finished the mission of Kura (rather pretty easy mission) but very cool mission. Just a little disapointed when I tried to encircle the fort to make easier the attack but nothing has happened. I thought the enemy would be diminished and change to "orange" ...

Yes, this one is easier.

Disapointed about this?

Okay, here is the thing: the efficiency may be diminished (therefore the colors, yellow, orange or red) if units are outsupplied. Thus, encircling is often very useful, that's perfectly correct.

But the thing is: from where does the supply comes from? You've usually several supply outputs on these map, for each side (Axis forces vs Allied forces)... to see where they are, use the "space" bar when playing the scenario... push the "space" bar and see what's changing on screen (only as long as you do push on it): the number in each big circle found on a hex or another tells you how many supply comes from this hex, the small number over each unit will tell you how many supply this particular unit needs to be/stay fully operational... now you'll get a better idea on how it works, where does really supply comes from, how many is required within some "Pocket" (encircled units) to stay operational, etc.

So, you can always reload a save (if you've had the option one savefile each turn selected - rather useful at times!) or even restart the scenario just the time to check this... Do you see the Kufra's fort? Okay, then now push the "space" bar... you see there are supply outputs in there and largely enough. What does it mean? Well, you can encircle this fort entirely, it won't make supply issue for the defenders. Is it coherent? Sure, because in this case, as it's a defensive position, they've certainly prepared some reserves (ammo, fuel, food, etc.) as well.


By the way, you may have noticed that English is not my mother tongue... So I may write a little " strangely " from time to time, but it should remain understandable and, I hope, helpful.

[ColonelY]

[...] But you are also correct in that the player should have the option of keeping forces in reserve, so best practice is to offer deployment hexes for the entire scenario. [...]

There is always the option as well to keep the "reserves" already deployed on the battlefield, but simply a little backwards (from the frontlines)...

Keeping a little longer the deployment hexes stays an option as well... But in any case I wouldn't do it "for the entire scenario" Few turns after the deployment strictly speaking should be largely enough, shouldn't it?

Moreover, later in any scenario (or almost at least), we'll always control at least some village or town from where some units can be put on map as well, so...

[ColonelY]

Thinking back, I maintain that this for the entire duration of the scenario would make little sense and, therefore, should (especially) not be done.

Look: for example, what would be the point of deploying a few remaining units (for God knows what reason), say 5 turns before the end of the scenario, or something similar, at the very south of the map? By the time these units get back north to the fort (the last point of resistance at this stage of the scenario, in principle)... Well, it's simple, there would be absolutely NO point in doing that! (And yes, I took a little extreme case on purpose as sometimes it helps making things obvious. )

So: "during the entire scenario", especially not anyway because it wouldn't make much sense in itself.
(But you already knew my opinion on that. What's new is the following:)

To be able to deploy troops on some of the first turns of the scenario (even if it makes the player "waste time"), well, why not? It's an option...

Anyway, it shouldn't concern ALL the current deployment hexes either, but only a handful of them, only a part of them... Why? Well, as we have enough hexes to deploy everything from start in this case, if we keep/see the same number of available hexes for 2, 3 or 4 turns (or perhaps even a little longer) and each time we put down only one or two units... well, we may soon get the feeling that it's "too much" and that, maybe, we "run out of units" to fill all those spaces... it might create an awkward feeling of imbalance...

That is why I think this last element should also be taken into account. So I would say: not during the whole scenario (we'll know! ) and not all hexes each time/turn either.

[GabeKnight]

The changes inside the first missions are good, plays much better now.

As for deployment hexes: If there are not enough (flagged) towns on a large map and some stray enemy unit endangers your main supply hub somewhere on the other side of the map you'll be glad for some deployment hexes then... remember, not everyone plays this game the same way.

For example I've watched one of "Night Phoenix's" youtube playthroughs of the RedSteel/Winterstorm mission just yesterday. He played at level 5 difficulty and I was amazed, seriously amazed, how he could win using such flawed tactics. IN MY OPINION.

[ColonelY]

[...] remember, not everyone plays this game the same way.

Sure, you're right about this.

Hey, as now this titillates my curiosity, I'll have a look at this "Night Phoenix's" RedSteel/Winterstorm mission.

[ColonelY]

10MarethLine:

I just went for a third full playtest of this scenario...

Here's some feedback about the last version of it; there are some new points and some "old" that I haven't noticed previously... Anyway, here it is:

-> Clear the road for the Tiger tank: no rough desert or it won’t be able to travel south… only (normal) desert or eventually difficult terrain.
(Same considerations for Axis units eventually being able to try exiting the map using this road.)

-> Perhaps consider adding some light garrison in Oudref (some regular infantry unit)…
Otherwise once El Hamma and Gabès (or even Oudref instead of Gabès) are taken, the Tiger will directly be outsupplied… it’s supposed to have come from the North and shouldn’t be so easy to outsupply… I prefer adding a light garrison there instead of an somehow artificial supply output of 10 just behind the Tiger. (Besides, this garrison may help or try covering the eventual retreat of Axis forces along this road, so…)

-> Your “restor axis airstrip” triggers are rather unlikely to be effective because the Axis need to control the corresponding hex… if we’ve advanced and really captured or taken these grounds…

-> ‘Would have had a Major Victory at the 35th turn (out of 50)… I’ve kept Gabès under the Italian flag (without any enemy unit left around) on purpose… to gain time going to battle some warbeast in the north, for example
Okay, I know the scenario which make things easier, but… one may have to consider reducing the amount of turns, but here on this part the feedbacks from other players as well would be nice, for some comparison and hopefully some fine tuning!

-> During several turns the enemy planes were in a yellow supply situation… T29, then 31 to 32 at least, then 35 again… despite their losses (in airstrips but in planes as well)… every time they lose an airstrip, I take the hex as well, so… so, what about still adding an extra airstrip for them, let’s say perhaps near a road, exactly in the middle between Oudref and the closest Coastal Gun?

-> "Wilder's Gap" vs "Walker's Gap"… Are we here talking from two different locations? This may be a little confusing as it is now…
(And if it’s the same location, possibility to target this sector during the corresponding event at the very start of the scenario – which would then require to move the cam for the very next event, the last one being already focusing, cam included, the ships. )

-> Consider adding a cool and immersive event once the Aussies dogfighter join the battle (targeting the hex where they stand/fly)… perhaps with the same nice picture as in Operation Exporter (a little wink!)… and the opportunity to briefly mention as well the British recon plane and extra bomber plane, as well as the 2 Construction groups units…

-> British Indian may come relatively quickly low on resources… a gift from 10 extra RPs once we take command of these units?

-> One tiny little hex starts out of the fog of war, isolated, few hexes West from our US planes (during deployment and turn 1)…

-> Event “Breakthrough!”, in its text “[…] [The XXX Corps is now under player control.]”… well, not right now, but from the start of the next turn! Perhaps worth being clarified...


Et voilà !

[GabeKnight]

Hey, as now this titillates my curiosity, I'll have a look at this "Night Phoenix's" RedSteel/Winterstorm mission.

I kid you not. In all fairness: 1) I switched the audio off and 2) I think he played the scen for the first time. Still, knowing all this I shook my head half the time about his moves, unit deployment and management.
Some dumb moves are okay and mistakes sure happen...but...

(And... Sorry to, whoever this NightPhoenix persona may be. As said, it's only my own humble opinion on the matter... )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJlRLHq ... z&index=30

[bru888]

10MarethLine:

I just went for a third full playtest of this scenario...

Here's some feedback about the last version of it; there are some new points and some "old" that I haven't noticed previously... Anyway, here it is:

-> Clear the road for the Tiger tank: no rough desert or it won’t be able to travel south… only (normal) desert or eventually difficult terrain.
(Same considerations for Axis units eventually being able to try exiting the map using this road.) That's one way to corral a monster tank. Literally corral it with rough desert and mountains! Fixed; the road from El Guettar is cleared.

-> Perhaps consider adding some light garrison in Oudref (some regular infantry unit)…
Otherwise once El Hamma and Gabès (or even Oudref instead of Gabès) are taken, the Tiger will directly be outsupplied… it’s supposed to have come from the North and shouldn’t be so easy to outsupply… I prefer adding a light garrison there instead of an somehow artificial supply output of 10 just behind the Tiger. (Besides, this garrison may help or try covering the eventual retreat of Axis forces along this road, so…) Opted for adding supply to northern map edge road hexes which makes sense in that the Germans still controlled northern Tunisia.

-> Your “restor axis airstrip” triggers are rather unlikely to be effective because the Axis need to control the corresponding hex… if we’ve advanced and really captured or taken these grounds… Working as intended. Axis is allowed to replace airstrips only if they have been bombed. If the Allies have overrun the sites of these airstrips, it is doubtful that the Axis would have time to build more elsewhere.

-> ‘Would have had a Major Victory at the 35th turn (out of 50)… I’ve kept Gabès under the Italian flag (without any enemy unit left around) on purpose… to gain time going to battle some warbeast in the north, for example
Okay, I know the scenario which make things easier, but… one may have to consider reducing the amount of turns, but here on this part the feedbacks from other players as well would be nice, for some comparison and hopefully some fine tuning! You just advocated moving the turns from 48 to 50. I think one or two other guys said they took 47 turns or so, and that was before adding the Tiger tank.

-> During several turns the enemy planes were in a yellow supply situation… T29, then 31 to 32 at least, then 35 again… despite their losses (in airstrips but in planes as well)… every time they lose an airstrip, I take the hex as well, so… so, what about still adding an extra airstrip for them, let’s say perhaps near a road, exactly in the middle between Oudref and the closest Coastal Gun? It is intended that the Axis air units will suffer when their existing airstrips are taken/destroyed.

-> "Wilder's Gap" vs "Walker's Gap"… Are we here talking from two different locations? This may be a little confusing as it is now…
(And if it’s the same location, possibility to target this sector during the corresponding event at the very start of the scenario – which would then require to move the cam for the very next event, the last one being already focusing, cam included, the ships. ) I get a mental block sometimes; in this case, I must have encountered a "Walker's Gap" earlier in my life or in a previous one. I kept making that mistake and correcting it and I still goofed it up in a message. Fixed; it should be "Wilder's Gap" (which is way off to the south, by the way, and could not be shown on the map. That is why I included a mini map in one of the messages.)

-> Consider adding a cool and immersive event once the Aussies dogfighter join the battle (targeting the hex where they stand/fly)… perhaps with the same nice picture as in Operation Exporter (a little wink!)… and the opportunity to briefly mention as well the British recon plane and extra bomber plane, as well as the 2 Construction groups units… No, there is enough in here already.

-> British Indian may come relatively quickly low on resources… a gift from 10 extra RPs once we take command of these units? They start getting income as soon as they appear, just like the regular British.

-> One tiny little hex starts out of the fog of war, isolated, few hexes West from our US planes (during deployment and turn 1)… That is an air deployment hex which stands out only because it is not in the line of sight of the American aircraft. As you say, it disappears once the turns are advanced.

-> Event “Breakthrough!”, in its text “[…] [The XXX Corps is now under player control.]”… well, not right now, but from the start of the next turn! Perhaps worth being clarified... Yes, so clarified.


Et voilà !

Thanks. These changes will be included in the next update, which should be soon. I have turned Normandie-Niemen around and am quite satisfied with how it is coming out now. It will need tweaking as to target values but there are a bunch of interesting tidbits in it. That does not guarantee that it will be any good but I am convinced that it is the best that I can do to present a purely aerial battle in this game.

[Erik2]

I wonder if it is feasible to remove/redeploy (all?) land units at certain turns to display the changing frontline under the air-war.
Probably too much work...

[bru888]

I wonder if it is feasible to remove/redeploy (all?) land units at certain turns to display the changing frontline under the air-war.
Probably too much work...

Slavemaster! ( )

[Besides, all of the action takes place in one day . . . ]

[ColonelY]

About 10MarethLine:

This time: First, various digressions. Then an idea.

-> Number of turns: Yes, I'm a little unsure about it right now... Indeed, you're right, someone talked about 47... before adding garrisons to both El Hamma and Gabès... And before adding as well the Tiger tank. But I'm almost certain that this single unit won't affect much the battle - but it'll be a great and nice touch. Still, having slightly increased this number to 50 is a safety (or fairness?) and there shouldn't be any problem about this. (You've put 52 at the very start, if I'm not mistaken.) Yeah, it should be fine like this. Maybe a little too much though?... (I've noticed that these garrisons don't last long anyway thus don't change much and, well, I don't expect this tremendous warbeast to be a game-changing unit either... as vastly outnumbered anyway, and starting half-depleted.)

-> About the airstrips, I know well the principle, of course, the question was more if one wants or not that the supply counts for enemy planes. Now it does count slightly, or perhaps may count slightly (at worse "yellow" seen, that's not dramatic - sure enough it depends on how the battle goes, on how the player plays).

-> For the British India, well, the principle was very well understood as well... it was just suggesting (again) a small gift/help/boost for them.

Anyway, no big deal there!



Now, an idea.

You know, having played several times the same scenario while having experienced different things may be really useful... to make comparisons!

For example, it's much better (based on what I've seen) to send our British and Free French dogfighters quite in the North from start (so not keeping them too cautiously in reserve nor sending them too much westwards to cover our bombers which, obviously, have to help French and Greeks to advance trough the mountain passes)... so that some of the enemy dogfighters come to duel them, and then the US planes have a little less tough time directly. I found it gave the impression of being more balanced, more pleasant in this case...

Another point thanks to these comparisons:

As a result, I remember the surprise, the astonishment, the impression of excellence, the enthusiasm I felt when I saw... well, do you remember this "detail" here:

[...]
-> Really excellent to see some artillery shots being taken in full AI mod… another set of rounds a little later before we take control? Together with a small British artillery riposte, even?
[...]

[...] Heh, I realized that the "artillery shots being taken in full AI mod" are not intended but happen when the enemy's planes fly overhead and spot friendly units. I did not want any action on the Mareth Line until the Tebaga Gap breakthrough. Well, it really doesn't matter because all of those placeholder British roundel units get removed anyway when the Eighth Army is activated. Call it "dramatic effect"! [...]

Yes, precisely, but this effect is of the most beautiful effect, as one says. So when it wasn't there, for having seen it once, I missed it.

Now, you know where I'm coming, don't you?


I think it would be a nice touch, a cool extra little something. But then, there is a question of dosage... too much is out of the question... too little, it would be useless at all...

It could perhaps be done like this:
1. At the 5th turn and during an entire turn, reveal (by triggers) the center of the British units in front of the Mareth Line so that the Axis troops there in front (and in range) may take a handful of shots during one turn. (Of course, then unreveal it.)
2. At the 10th turn and during ..., perhaps this time the left flank ... so that... (Idem.)
3. At the 15th turn ..., ... the right flank...
4. At the 20th turn... the center a last time...

Then, if enemy planes fly over the Allied formation, then some extra (bonus) action may be triggered. But if not, then there could still be something!
That should be relatively easy to implement.
And not too intrusive either. And won't make the turns last much longer.
But a good reminder that something is about to happen there...
Indeed, as you've written, it really doesn't matter it they take some (light) casualties as they'll get removed anyway... (they just don't have to be destroyed by these shots)
And in case at turn 20 we already control the troops there, even in this case, revealing a little more won't cause any issue so it won't be a problem either, so...


In short it won't (and can't!) break the scenario, nor unbalance it nor anything. But it should be relatively easy and quick to implement, and moreover bring some nice extra little touch...


Bru, what do you think: according to you, is it worth trying?

[ColonelY]

Hey, as now this titillates my curiosity, I'll have a look at this "Night Phoenix's" RedSteel/Winterstorm mission.

I kid you not. In all fairness: 1) I switched the audio off and 2) I think he played the scen for the first time. Still, knowing all this I shook my head half the time about his moves, unit deployment and management.
Some dumb moves are okay and mistakes sure happen...but...

(And... Sorry to, whoever this NightPhoenix persona may be. As said, it's only my own humble opinion on the matter... )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJlRLHq ... z&index=30

Thanks
('Damn, it's quite long with these 4 vids. )

[bru888]

About 10MarethLine:

Bru, what do you think: according to you, is it worth trying?

Thanks, Colonel, but I consider Mareth Line to be finished, unless you find any other errors or glitches such as hemmed-in Tigers.

[ColonelY]

Okay

[bru888]

Anybody else realize that it's been a year and two days since I started this thread?

[bru888]

Anybody else realize that it's been a year and two days since I started this thread?

Even worse, that I am only half way through (see my next post) a projected total of 22 scenarios? (But, I have picked up the pace of production in the past few months, I believe.)