BRITCON 2008; Manchester, UK

[neilhammond]

I kept repeating the question of 'how to beat it' because noone seemed to have an answer to it.

Use Thracian / Illyrian / Pictish / Caledonian / Ancient British / Dacian / Gallic. And, I suspect, a well crafted EAP or Jewish Revolt might do the trick as well.

[olivier]

As hellenistic greek or MRR. I think MRR with it's small 2 BG of triarii can do very well !

[peterrjohnston]

I kept repeating the question of 'how to beat it' because noone seemed to have an answer to it.

You'd be better off asking "how to beat Graham". His no losses at Britcon is about par for the course for him.

[timmy1]

'However, the "the sky is falling" type response to the surprise success of an unexpected troop combination used by 2 top players (their success in itself being no surprise, only the troop combination they used) did not become any more plausible through constant repetition. It began to look as if there might be a hidden agenda.

We have seen a sequence of such "X is invincible and overpowered" posts since play-testing began, but none have proved accurate long-term predictions.

Time will tell, but I can guarantee one thing - the bottom places in future competitions will be littered with less skilled players attempting to reproduce Graham and Keith's success.
'

RBS's comments, quoted above, are correct (and if you have read any of my previous posts to RBS you will know how much it pains me to write this). I have only been here 3 or 4 months but I have seen 'Knights are unbeatable - where do I get a Santa Hermanidad Castilian Thingimydodah army from?', 'Shooty Cav are under princed, we MUST change the points RIGHT NOW' and now 'cheesey LIR/Dominate armies of small BG are king'. Both the first two were proven incorrect. I suspect that if you take Graham's list to Britcon '09, it will not be top 3. Lets wait until all 9 (or 11, whatever) Companians are in the wild and we have had a year of surprises and killer armies. Then we can make wild, uninformed, inflamatory remarks with no basis in fact (I bags being called Mike Campbell) or writing 20 posts a day, each of 5000 words, explaining why the previous poster was not entitled to membership of the human race and can't read (and those of you posting from Larryworld know who I mean). Good players find ways to win with armies good or bad. The best player at my club now experiments with 'mad' armies just for fun and still makes me feel as if I am seconds away from total disaster.

Please accept my apology if you have never played DBM as some of the above will not make sense.

[hammy]

all interesting points........ play it yourself, good players, bottom till the 19bg army arrived then top, nice blokes, great players, born winners, naturally talented army selectors etc etc.........

Err, if Graham and Keith were bottom until they decided to use 19BGs how come they were both seeded?

Graham has played 3 FoG tournaments, he finished 22/41 at the Challenge (his first FoG tournament), 3rd at the Oxford doubles and 4th at Chester.
Keith finished 34th at the Challenge and played with Graham at the doubles.

Having played Graham and Keith on top table in the last round at Oxford I can safely say that by that point they were more than competent players but still learing the rules.

Graham has a concept for the army, looked to maximise what he felt was the value for money things and came up with the swarm Roman list. I really doubt that it will be dominant for very long but the surpise value was significant.

[hammy]

I kept repeating the question of 'how to beat it' because noone seemed to have an answer to it.

You'd be better off asking "how to beat Graham". His no losses at Britcon is about par for the course for him.

I am not sure when Graham last lost a game at Britcon......

Checks the records:
2007 - 1st, 30 30 14 31 30 16
2006 - 4th, 16 31 31 24 16 16
2005 - 1st, 30 31 30 14 27 16
2004 - 1st, 31 30 27 24 30 16
2003 - 10th, 16 30 12 23 24 16 (hmm, something odd here)
2002 - 1st, 32 31 30 16 31 30
2001 - 14th, 31 13 32 20 20 1 (at last, found one. Graham lost 31-1 in the last round to Lorenzo Mele who won the comp)

Unless you count 14-18 as a defeat (and it really isn't one) then Graham has not lost a game at Britcon for 7 years.

What is new?

[madaxeman]

at least he is scoring less points under fog...

[carlos]

or writing 20 posts a day, each of 5000 words, explaining why the previous poster was not entitled to membership of the human race and can't read (and those of you posting from Larryworld know who I mean).

One of the best features of Fogworld is the lack of Larry. Most definitely.

[willb]

I kept repeating the question of 'how to beat it' because noone seemed to have an answer to it.

Use Thracian / Illyrian / Pictish / Caledonian / Ancient British / Dacian / Gallic. And, I suspect, a well crafted EAP or Jewish Revolt might do the trick as well.

something of a silly idea, but you can get an 18 bg early successor army with the same initiative and almost twice the bases as follows

6 bg of 8 egyptian phalanx
6 bg of 8 regular phalanx
1 bg of 6 slingers
1 bg of 4 LH bow
1 bg of 4 LH javelin/light spear
1 bg of 4 CV average light spear/sword
1 bg of 6 poor garrison MF
1 bg of 6 mob
1 IC and 2 TC
for 798 points

if you replace the IC with two TC you can upgrade the poor garrison to 4 average thureophoroi and increase the mob to 8 for 800 points.

[nikgaukroger]

Modertors hat on:

Gentlemen, no slagging off of other people please - even those not on this forum.

[marco]

i try to explain with my poor english

i like this discussion understable only by fogmaniacs
don't participate cause my level of game is not so good


what tell my experience of DBM :
two kind of player :
those who show the way
and those who try to follow
( and a strange kind : who don't care : "make this army because :1. i like this history
2. i like the models (hey, it's me !))
the first one let indice but it looks like "the da vinci code"
you think you find him....he's already gone !

but let's talk about french player !

and the no knight army of olivier !

he shows the way, but hard to follow, he's already somewhere esle (palmyre ?)


gilles belong to the strange kind (evrybody apreciate him in france)
very kind ( he played english army in english tournament...isn't it kind ! and continental )and good painter

and stephane brault is definitely a learning killer
if he'll come back next year he would be in the top three !
take care to his smile


marco "well i bought all these magnifique models but ...where is the army lists..."merlin

[davidandlynda]

What will be interesting is how it will go at Roll Call (25th/26th Oct for those not aware)
Roll Call is themed Legions Triumphant for one comp,see Bhgs site for others,
Will we all be using it or planning armies to beat it,indeed will Graham and Keith repeat its use or come up with something different to catch us out again.
I feel the playing surface will be more even in a themed event
David

[daveallen]

Roll Call is themed Legions Triumphant for one comp,see Bhgs site for others,

But 25mm still not themed.

Not fair!

Dave

[hammy]

Roll Call is themed Legions Triumphant for one comp,see Bhgs site for others,

But 25mm still not themed.

Not fair!

Dave

While themed would be good if you are trying to get more 25mm players open comps are a better plan until numbers pick up.

I could play in a 25mm comp as I have a 25mm army from 6th edition days but unless any theme allowed Seleucids I would have to play 15s.

[chubooga]

whats Roll Call gents? where is it held?

I can put a 28mm dominate (swarm or otherwise ) on the table if its at the right date?

cheers
jon

[neilhammond]

whats Roll Call gents? where is it held?

This year it's at HIGH WYCOMBE on 25th-26th October 2008. If you look on the BHGS site www.bhgs.co.uk and go to either events or calender you'll find it, along with the periods - 2 themed periods for 15mm; 1 open for 25mm FOG.

[daveallen]

I could play in a 25mm comp as I have a 25mm army from 6th edition days but unless any theme allowed Seleucids...

I can put a 28mm dominate (swarm or otherwise ) on the table if its at the right date

Is that two new recruits for the One True Scale then?

Hopefully, we can get enough 25mm players for future organisers to offer themed comps.

If you do go 25mm I promise not to use a swarmy Dominate army.

Dave

[donm]

Nik,

Is it true that at Roll Call the 25mm is on larger tables and using 40mm movement.

And before you ask, yes I can probably do two complete German 800 point armies

Don

[WhiteKnight]

Would be interested in 25mm comp at Rollcall, too. I can't find any ref as to comp parameters save it's open as to lists and 800pts. IMO that many pts needs an 8x4 table in this scale but I wouldn't want to dabble with 40mm MUs. That alters the size of terrain pieces, deployment areas, as well as move distances and command radii...at Rampage in Ilford 1000pts on a 9x4 table with standard MUs, all was perfectly fine.

Martin

[davidandlynda]

It is 8x5 although I can't comment on ground scale,I'll leave that to Bruce,I'll be doing 15mm I'm just to embarressed tio use my figures Lynda probably won't be playing 25mm either ,she can't reach the middle of the table
David