Operation Jubilee - Dieppe - Pls upgrade to 1.1

[GottaLove88s]

On Allied units, US rangers are present ('speaking' American), so are Free French commandos and Montreal fusiliers (speaking French)... Both sides enjoy the uber-dangerous snipers genuinely present at Dieppe...

[GottaLove88s]

From latest screenshots above... you'll see I finally figured out a way to approximate the 'Moorish' casino that dominated the Dieppe seafront... until it was flattened by the RAF, lol...

[Ranger]

GottaLove88's:
In case you didn't know ..I sent you a PM....(don't know if we get alerts to let us know we've received a PM)

Of possible interest to anyone reading about and/or researching the Dieppe Raid/Jubilee:
The book I'm currently reading about the Rangers participation in the Dieppe Raid ("Rangers at Dieppe" by Jim Defelice) references the book "The Shame and Glory", by Terrence Robertson, and says it "has been seen as the definitive work on the raid (Dieppe) by a Canadian historian since its publication in 1962". I just ordered a used copy of $4 on Amazon.


Cheers,

Thomas

[GottaLove88s]

Ranger, thanks for your PM! Just went to take a look. RESPECT for your previous job... Wow!

Yes please, it would be great to use your experiences as our Commando expert in residence...

I want to match your goal of creating something as close to historical reality as possible... with perhaps a little balancing to keep it fun and winnable for both sides... I believe the Allied unit breakout was 6,000 Canadians (mostly fairly green to raids), plus 1,000 highly trained commandos (including contingents of US Rangers & Free French)... Allies also had Churchill tanks, blitz buggies (jeeps), universal carriers, and recon armoured cars (mostly dropped in the centre, with the Canucks)... Does that sound about right?

Once our battle map is finished, several us (probably you, me, LandMarine, Morge, iProp, maybe Amaris if we can persuade him) should experiment with different force selection to figure out what works (closest to historical but still most fun to play)... Really grateful for your support!!

[morge4]

Map is looking great as usual Jon!

[LandMarine47]

Wow never thought it be this good but I want something the engineers to do. So they are treated more cautiously. Such as blowing a shingle or destroying an enemy barge hell maybe even making a pontoon bridge if possible. BTW will you add minefields like in Operation Husky? The accounts don't mention mines but I'm sure the beach must have 2 or 3 minefields laying around....

[LandMarine47]

Oh and with some further research the 10th Panzers were apparently some very elite tankesr and should be treated with caution. I say promote each tank to veteran or elite. As well as the British Commandoes should be elite and free French veteran. Rangers not since they go untested until this point in the war. Will there be crocs? Historically they showed up during the Normandy Campaign

[LandMarine47]

And last but not least i can see a little channel in the middle of the map between the beaches. Perhaps the Rangers should attack there. And will there be a U-Boat presence here? Historically the U-Boats could only engage seaborne units and weak air units. And will they be able to submerge? Where no one can see him but if left under to long must surface or death?

[GottaLove88s]

Wow never thought it be this good but I want something the engineers to do. So they are treated more cautiously. Such as blowing a shingle or destroying an enemy barge hell maybe even making a pontoon bridge if possible. BTW will you add minefields like in Operation Husky? The accounts don't mention mines but I'm sure the beach must have 2 or 3 minefields laying around....

Will use Amaris' real engineers... They can add/remove tank traps, cut forest, clear paths thru marsh (will maybe add thru shingle/pebbles?) and demolish hedgerow/walls... The harbour and canal were a key feature obstacle of Dieppe so no pontoon bridges this time (it's supposed to be a 12 hour raid! )... Also each action costs one charge (no refills because Allies come on little boats)

[GottaLove88s]

And last but not least i can see a little channel in the middle of the map between the beaches. Perhaps the Rangers should attack there. And will there be a U-Boat presence here? Historically the U-Boats could only engage seaborne units and weak air units. And will they be able to submerge? Where no one can see him but if left under to long must surface or death?

1st Ranger could do that... It's the entrance to the main harbour... It might be well guarded (depending who you're playing)... Expect casualties... But if you can get in, it would get your LCAs and LCIs right into the heart of the town (and behind many of the wickedly dangerous coastal batteries )

No U-boots in Dieppe... Two (historically accurate) Ubootjagd (UJ) sub-chasers escorting a non-armed surface convoy only...

[GottaLove88s]

In BA stone-paper-scissors, current setup is eight Royal Navy destroyers (well, 7 RN and 1 Polish) versus eight 152mm Coastal Guns... All can fire smoke, and with that amount of serious firepower in play, you're going to need the smoke to hide your movements...

[GottaLove88s]

Airpower... Dieppe was one of the biggest single RAF vs Luftwaffe engagements of the war, up to that point... Allies get Blenheim bombers, Typhoon ground attack, Hurricane strafing... Germans get Fw190s and Stuka dive bombers...

[LandMarine47]

I'm not sure about Typhoons. Let me google it because I think they showed up after North Africa was under Allied Control

[LandMarine47]

According to Wikipedia they arrived on October 1942 to the desert long after the Dieppe raid

[LandMarine47]

Hmm in the screenshot I can see some LCT's on a small isle connected by 2 Bridges. Perhaps this is where the Free French will Assault. (Are they regular French Infantry with 125 Morale and 3 Charges) or are they Corps Francs

[GottaLove88s]

I'm not sure about Typhoons. Let me google it because I think they showed up after North Africa was under Allied Control

References show the following in action at Dieppe...

RAF Fighter Command No.11 Group

Spitfire Squadrons 19,41, 64, 65, 66, 71, 81, 91, 111, 118, etc, etc (too bad we can't have Spits in BA)
Hurricane Squadrons 3, 32, 43, 87, 174, 175, 245, 253
Typhoon Squadrons 56, 266, 609
Blenheim Squadrons 13, 614

Also 5 Boston Squadrons (I have no idea what a 'Boston' is?!), 4 Mustang Squadrons (didn't realise they were deployed that early... must be a protoype model?), 1 Beaufighter Squadron and 4 B17 Squadrons (from USAAF 97th Bombardment Group)

[GottaLove88s]

Hmm in the screenshot I can see some LCT's on a small isle connected by 2 Bridges. Perhaps this is where the Free French will Assault. (Are they regular French Infantry with 125 Morale and 3 Charges) or are they Corps Francs

The LCTs at the inner harbour are just there for eye candy... I'll remove them if they're confusing... The Free French at Dieppe were all commandos, with No.3 and No.4 Royal Marines, so I'm using the Corp Francais animations, labelled as 'Free French Commando'... However, the Montreal Fusiliers are regular infantry, so will be regular strength...

Hope that makes sense?

[GottaLove88s]

More on Typhoons...

In 1941 the Spitfire Vs which equipped the bulk of Fighter Command squadrons were outclassed in combat with the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 and were suffering heavy losses. The Typhoon was rushed into squadron service (with Nos. 56 and 609 Squadrons) in summer 1941 in an attempt to counter the Fw 190. This decision proved to be a disaster, and several Typhoons were lost to unknown causes. Subsequently, the Air Ministry began to consider halting production of the Typhoon.

I suspect that the Typhoons at Dieppe will not have enjoyed quite the bite as their later cousins, involved in D-Day, so I'll tone them down a little...

[LandMarine47]

I say remove em people will think the mod is bugged and expect more men!

[GottaLove88s]

I say remove em people will think the mod is bugged and expect more men!

Let's beta test with a small team of enthusiastic volunteers, before we make any final calls on units... If it's historic, we'll try it... and then remove/mod if it doesn't seem to work...

At the moment, on a marginally realistic map, even the small 302nd Infanterie garrison, with plenty of arty, mortars, MG42s and Ranger's MG34s, feels likely to kick ass versus any historically modelled Allied assault... even without German tanks (as was reality in August'42)

For me, I'm open minded on our end result... I'd like to build the most historically accurate model possible, with the tools available... but then test it to pieces until we have a scenario that folks will want to play... and will enjoy playing as both sides...

Agreed?