”XV century AD – Mediterranean Campaign”

[stockwellpete]

Perhaps if there was a maximum number of fleets that could be held at any one time? Maybe four? Or alternatively, you could say players can have no more fleets than they have maritime provinces (not sure that would work OK though).

[TheGrayMouser]

Perhaps if there was a maximum number of fleets that could be held at any one time? Maybe four? Or alternatively, you could say players can have no more fleets than they have maritime provinces (not sure that would work OK though).

I would be concerned about the tracking of all those.
I was thinking of something simpler like: equal # fleets , lotto determine if attacker lands troops, attack with naval inferiority , lotto determines again BUT if you draw or lose the lotto you lose 1 fleet ( in addition to th eother stuff)
So , risky to attack w naval inferiority but possible!

BTW you could have made Milan a super naval power if you bought TWO fleets instead of the one and the fort, considering that no player could ever directly attack the Pope yet as, well, no one has any fleets

[stockwellpete]

BTW you could have made Milan a super naval power if you bought TWO fleets instead of the one and the fort, considering that no player could ever directly attack the Pope yet as, well, no one has any fleets

I have got Leonardo Da Vinci in my garage working on the designs for tanks and aeroplanes. After all, I need all the help I can get since I reckon I have got the weakest army in the game - only 2 "superior" troop BG's possible, no Swiss and no cavalry, and very few MF. Just a load of lobotomised tin cans who are anarchy prone and often "fragment" on impact.

http://www.italian-renaissance-art.com/ ... apons.html

[TheGrayMouser]

BTW you could have made Milan a super naval power if you bought TWO fleets instead of the one and the fort, considering that no player could ever directly attack the Pope yet as, well, no one has any fleets

I have got Leonardo Da Vinci in my garage working on the designs for tanks and submarines. After all, I need all the help I can get since I reckon I have got the weakest army in the game - only 2 "superior" troop BG's possible, no Swiss and no cavalry, and very few MF. Just a load of lobotomised tin cans who are anarchy prone and often "fragment" on impact.

You got it all, the Pope, Leonardo, the Madonna( although she's getting a little long in the tooth since 1980's)

[iandavidsmith]

2nd action

(attack vs an independent province)
Land Attack
Byzantine attacks Ae [Aetolia] (target) from Th[Thessaly] (starting point).
550 pts. Battle, DM on, FoW on

Defending army led by a player randomly chosen with the lottery draw

[Lysimachos]

Hey Lys., I think the fleets rule needs a quick review

what happens if player A owns 3 fleets and is attacked same turn/amphibious by player C who has one fleet and player B that has two fleets..
Does that mean A cant be attacked from sea in that situation? ie he forces a retreat by both B and C?

I personally feel the "one more" fleet rule is a little to harsh and will just lead to constant purchases of fleets to NEVER having to worring about naval threats...

Also, what happens in this situation
its saterday , hours away from the next lotto draw
Player A owns a fleet
Player B owns a fleet

A declares fortify sea province x, per the rules this will be operational on Wednesday @ 2300 GMT

Sneeky player B sees that posting on the forum, and declares a naval invasion of X specifically cause player A basically told him, so to speak, "if you dont attack it now it will be a pain 4 days from now" !
The lotto result states his fleet got thru.....
per the rules player B has no need to worry about the fort ( or sieg train )which assumably will still have been paid for by A...

Well TGM,
about situation 1) the conclusion is owed per the actual rules.
Both attacks will be repulsed, though with no losses for the attackers, they're just forced to retreat.
about situation 2) your assumption is wrong.
The fortifications will display all their effects from the fourth day the action has been declared.
The attacker will then have to confront them unless he is able to finish the land battle before the 4th day.
In other words, when a player declares to build a fortification he gains priority over the eventual attackers.
On the other hand, if the attack has already been declared he is forbidden to build fortifications.
Which seems quite fair.

The real problem lies in the fact that a player with less fleets will never prevail and in the following "fleet-race" between players.
Let give me a bit of time and I'll think out something!

[stockwellpete]

The downside of this idea is that it does ask the organiser (or another player helping them) to keep a close eye on running totals.

To answer my own point, the way round this would be to deal with all necessary fleet adjustments on the first of the month.

[Lysimachos]

Note that Genoa is not part of the Duchy of Milan - it has its own thin stretch of territory along the coastline. This is important inasmuch as in the campaign the Duchy of Milan has a small island called Samos as part of its territories in the Aegean. In fact, this island was owned by a Genoese trading family called Giustiniani (between 1346 and 1566).

Well, this is not entirely correct as you may find on this thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa#Midd ... enaissance

An excerpt of the text says:
"However, this prosperity did not last. The Black Death was imported into Europe in 1347 from the Genoese trading post at Caffa (Theodosia) in Crimea, on the Black Sea. Following the economic and population collapse, Genoa adopted the Venetian model of government, and was presided over by a doge (see Doge of Genoa). The wars with Venice continued, and the War of Chioggia (1378–1381)-- where Genoa almost managed to decisively subdue Venice—ended with Venice's recovery of dominance in the Adriatic. In 1390 Genoa initiated a crusade against the Barbary pirates with help of the French and laid siege to Mahdia. Though it has not been well-studied, the fifteenth century seems to have been a tumultuous time for Genoa. After a period of French domination from 1394–1409, Genoa came under rule by the Visconti of Milan . Genoa lost Sardinia to Aragon, Corsica to internal revolt and its Middle Eastern, Eastern European and Asia Minor colonies to the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

In fact I decided to join the Genoese possessions to that of Milan because I needed an 8th nation to insert in the game and it had to have 5 provinces.
This seemed the only way to work it out and doesn't seem unhistorical.
Moreover I loved the idea of having much nations involved in various geographical thatres, like Venice and Aragon - in order to spice up the campaign and make it diversified - and Genoa offered this opportunity.
I know you are a fan of closely historically based campaign but to make them really balanced is quite impossible.
This one is a bit abstract but offers the players fairly equal possibilities and this was my aim.

[stockwellpete]

In fact I decided to join the Genoese possessions to that of Milan because I needed an 8th nation to insert in the game and it had to have 5 provinces.This seemed the only way to work it out and doesn't seem unhistorical.
Moreover I loved the idea of having much nations involved in various geographical thatres, like Venice and Aragon - in order to spice up the campaign and make it diversified - and Genoa offered this opportunity.
I know you are a fan of closely historically based campaign but to make them really balanced is quite impossible.
This one is a bit abstract but offers the players fairly equal possibilities and this was my aim.

No, that's fine, Lysimachos, I wasn't criticising. I just didn't know very much about the Duchy of Milan so I did a bit of rummaging about on the internet. I was a bit puzzled by having Samos as one of my possessions but the Genoese connection now explains it.

Just don't tell my regular playing partner frankpowerful (omarquatar) that you have subsumed Genoa within the Duchy of Milan though. He is a Genoese and he will be furious!

[stockwellpete]

A bit more on Genoa from Wikipedia. It seems the city had a very tumultuous history in the later 14th and 15th C's.

"After the introduction of the title of doge for life (1339) and the election of Simone Boccanegra, Genoa resumed its struggles against the Marquis of Finale and the Counts of Laigueglia and it conquered again the territories of Finale, Oneglia and Porto Maurizio. In spite of its military and commercial successes, Genoa fell prey to the internal factions which put pressure on its political structure. Due to the vulnerable situation, the rule of the republic went to the hands of the Visconti family of Milan. After their expulsion by the popular forces under Boccanegra’s lead, the republic remained in Genoese hands until 1396, when the internal instability led the doge Antoniotto Adorno to surrender the title of Seignior of Genoa to the king of France. The French were driven away in 1409 and Liguria went back under Milanese control in 1421, thus remaining until 1435.

The alternation of French and Milanese dominions over Liguria went on until the first half of the 16th century. The French influence ceased in 1528, when Andrea Doria became the prestigious ally of the powerful king of Spain and imposed an aristocratic government which gave the republic a relative stability for about 250 years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liguria

In the 14thC the Milanese were in control of Genoa just between 1353 and 1356 but in the following century they were more influential and ruled the city between 1421and 1435, 1464 and 1478 and 1488-1499. A full list of the rulers of Genoa can be found here . . .

http://genealogy.euweb.cz/pan/genoa.html

[Lysimachos]

Hi all, these are in chronological order the attack vs independent provinces waiting to having determined the name of the player taking up the independent armies:
Mamluks (kilroy) = Cyrenaica from Marmarica
Mamluks (kilroy) = Lybia from Egypt
Aragonese (Trarius) = Languedoc from Catalonia
Venetians (Lysimachos) = Albania from Slavonia
Byzantine (iandavidsmith) = Aetolia from Thessaly

And these are the results of the lottery draw:
Bari 86 (iandavidsmith)
Napoli 82 (kilroy)
Palermo 79 (TGM)
Venezia 78 (ericdoman1)
Cagliari 73 (Triarius)

So, matching the attacks with the lottery draws, we have that:
Iandavidsmith will defend Cyrenaica vs kilroy
Kilroy (scales down one level in order to avoid battling himself) will defend Languedoc vs Triarius
TGM (goes up one level) will defend Lybia vs Kilroy
Ericdoman1 will defend Albania vs Lysimachos
Triarius will defend Aetolia vs iandavidsmith

[Lysimachos]

Hi eric,
it seems I wasn't really lucky this turn.

Maybe this night I'll change some of the rule to avoid such a meeting ..

[TheGrayMouser]

Battle Result

The Bulgars repulsed Ians Byzantine Invasion

31/44 Bulgars to 45/42 Byzzies +13

Im at a loss how to calc the rest ....

[TheGrayMouser]

Battle Result
Ottomans , barly , defeat the Black Sheep squadron
33/42 to 38/35

So if I get this: (curse you for making me remember equation stuff i havent used in 25 years)
uh +12/ttl BG's so:

12/77 = x/100
now multiply both side of the equation by 100/1
x = 1200/77

by dead reckoning , no compu-tators
15.5%
Did I get that lovely slice Anatolean beach front I always wanted or not??

[kilroy1]

Challenges issued:

Mamluks attack Cyrenaica (target) from Marmarica (starting point) iandavidsmith defending.
750 pts. Battle, DM on, FoW on.
PW = iandavidsmith


Mamluks attack Libya (target) from Egypt (starting point) TGM defending.
750 pts. Battle, DM on, FoW on.
PW = TheGrayMouser

kilroy

[Lysimachos]

Battle Result
Ottomans , barly , defeat the Black Sheep squadron
33/42 to 38/35

So if I get this: (curse you for making me remember equation stuff i havent used in 25 years)
uh +12/ttl BG's so:

12/77 = x/100
now multiply both side of the equation by 100/1
x = 1200/77

by dead reckoning , no compu-tators
15.5%
Did I get that lovely slice Anatolean beach front I always wanted or not??

Your calculations are right and so, yes, that lovely beach is yours now!

[FedeM]

Hi all, these are in chronological order the attack vs independent provinces waiting to having determined the name of the player taking up the independent armies:
Mamluks (kilroy) = Cyrenaica from Marmarica
Mamluks (kilroy) = Lybia from Egypt
Aragonese (Trarius) = Languedoc from Catalonia
Venetians (Lysimachos) = Albania from Slavonia
Byzantine (iandavidsmith) = Aetolia from Thessaly

And these are the results of the lottery draw:
Bari 86 (iandavidsmith)
Napoli 82 (kilroy)
Palermo 79 (TGM)
Venezia 78 (ericdoman1)
Cagliari 73 (Triarius)

So, matching the attacks with the lottery draws, we have that:
Iandavidsmith will defend Cyrenaica vs kilroy
Kilroy (scales down one level in order to avoid battling himself) will defend Languedoc vs Triarius
TGM (goes up one level) will defend Lybia vs Kilroy
Ericdoman1 will defend Albania vs Lysimachos
Triarius will defend Aetolia vs iandavidsmith

No lotery for me?

[TheGrayMouser]

Ottoman Action

Fleet outfitting for 50 Ducat's

[Lysimachos]

No lotery for me?

Alas your number in the lottery draw was the shortest (wheel of Torino: 2).
Next time you'll be more lucky!

[batesmotel]

Navarre has now been liberated by Castillian forces from its oppressive ruler PRince Chuck the Bad.

batesmotel - Castile 37/67
Triarius - Navarre 69/65

Strategic victory at 24.2%.

Chris