The Eye of The Storm (EoTS): Closed

[kronenblatt]

I'm also suggesting the following rules changes coming into effect:

Round 3
Under "Outcomes and Effects of Engagements and Battles":

• An army having:
  • lost a battle must move 12 - 15 MP away from the armies it fought, and any general commanding it is considered killed.
  • drawn a battle must move 6 - 9 MP away from the armies it fought.
  • won a battle is allowed to move 0 - 3 MP in any direction.

=> The reason being to allow some flexibility for losing, drawing as well as winning armies in post-battle movement.

Under "Movement/Movement Execution":

• If more than one army wishes to move into the same hex, the army in the following priority order will be the one making the move:
  • largest army size.
  • having a general.
  • northernmost.
  • westernmost.

=> The reason being to remove uncertainty in case armies from different factions potentially bounce in a hex (then one army should always be able to enter).

Round 4
Under "Recruitment/Reinforcing Existing Armies":

• Existing armies can in the Recruitment phase be reinforced up to size 5 (independent of its original size), provided that the army is located in a controlled and unsieged town or city in a controlled province (whether originally controlled or not).

=> The reason partly being for the sake of simplicity but particularly to not having each time to go back to original provinces to reinforce existing armies (but still have to when coming to raising new armies), i.e., rewarding conquest.

Under "Engagements and Battles/Engagements":

• Each of the two armies obtain their strengths through adjusting their respective sizes as follows:
  • ...
  • +1 if located in the hex of a controlled city (not town).

• An army's strength in an engagement can never be lower than 0 or higher than 5.

=> The reason being to reflect some additional benefits of cities and to not allow army strength levels to accumulate above army sizes (cap of 5 will only be hit for army size 5 armies with generals and in friendly cities facing only one enemy army).

Thoughts? And other ideas?

[Karvon]

All sound good to me.

Karvon

[kronenblatt]

Drawing, losing, and victorious armies have been moved based on instructions received.

Sieges (no assaults)

• Defence value of Vindobunum (town = 4) reduced by 3 to 1, due to siege of Gothic army I (army size = 3).

• Defence value of Naissus (city = 6) reduced by 3 to 3, due to siege of Gothic army II (army size = 3).

• Defence value of Nicomedia (city = 6) reduced by 5 to 1, due to siege of Gothic army III (army size = 5).

[kronenblatt]

I'm also suggesting the following rules changes coming into effect:
...

Let's also take the opportunity for everyone participating in this campaign to put forward (in this thread) questions and suggestions on parts of the rules you don't understand or agree with. It won't hold the campaign up of course, but it's a good time since I've received some questions by way of PMs.

[kronenblatt]

• Gothic army III splits into two (creating army IV), at a cost of 2 Army Replacement Points, leaving the Goths with 5 Army Replacement Points..

• Sassanid general Pigranes moves from army I to army IV.

[kronenblatt]

Checking supply, obtaining new Army Replacement Points, paying upkeep for armies, raising new armies, reinforcing existing armies.
=> No armies out of supply this round.

Army Replacement Point Costs

• Upkeep cost for each army amounts to 2 plus its current size.

• The cost of raising a new army amounts to 4 plus twice such size.

• The cost of reinforcing an existing army amounts to twice the size increase.

Factions

• Goths: adding 24 Army Replacement Points to the current 5, resulting in 29 out of which 19 is used for upkeep, leaving 10.

• Romans: adding 48 Army Replacement Points to the current 8, resulting in 56 out of which 38 is used for upkeep, leaving 18.

• Sassanids: adding 24 Army Replacement Points to the current 3, resulting in 27 out of which 17 is used for upkeep, leaving 10.

[kronenblatt]

Please advise by April 20, 9 PM (Stockholm time) at the latest how you'd like to spend your Army Replacement Points by way replying to my PM.

Factions' Army Replacement Points

• GOTHS (anderarcos11, SpeedyCM, Triarii): 10

• ROMANS (Aetius39, carpenkm, Ironclad, Nathangun, edb1815): 18

• SASSANIDS (Karvon, kronenblatt, markleslie): 10

Army Replacement Point costs

• The cost of reinforcing an existing army amounts to twice the size increase.

• The cost of raising a new army amounts to 4 plus twice its size.

• The cost of replacing a killed general amounts to 3.

[Triarii]

A couple of questions for the rules arising from the change on the 15th.

If a loosing army retreats 12-15mp is that army
a) penalised for it’s movement next turn particularly if also reinforced?
Or
b) able to reinforce and move without penalty the following turn?

It does seem counter-intuitive that (b) seems to apply. That becomes a potential double move of 30mp for a defeated army which can therefore return at potentially the same or larger size. That does seem that it might be too flexible.

[Karvon]

Valid point.

Maybe losing armies only get a half move the following turn if not reinforced, no movement if reinforced?

Karvon

[kronenblatt]

A couple of questions for the rules arising from the change on the 15th.

If a loosing army retreats 12-15mp is that army
a) penalised for it’s movement next turn particularly if also reinforced?
Or
b) able to reinforce and move without penalty the following turn?

It does seem counter-intuitive that (b) seems to apply. That becomes a potential double move of 30mp for a defeated army which can therefore return at potentially the same or larger size. That does seem that it might be too flexible.

(b) is applied since start and currently. Only difference to proposed change on Apr. 15 is a 12-15 MP retreat interval instead of the strict 12 MP.

This said, I’m all ears for further changes regarding this.

[Triarii]

Maybe losing armies only get a half move the following turn if not reinforced, no movement if reinforced?

Karvon

I do like the principle of this idea of Karvon’s.

Potentially moving 30mp in one single turn does seem a lot particularly as that requires a defeat. Have to admit I hadn’t properly understood (until thinking about the rule change) that a Double mp move is potentially possible in the turn after a defeat but also potentially possible while becoming as strong as, or even stronger, than when defeated.

[edb1815]

Maybe losing armies only get a half move the following turn if not reinforced, no movement if reinforced?

Karvon

I do like the principle of this idea of Karvon’s.

Potentially moving 30mp in one single turn does seem a lot particularly as that requires a defeat. Have to admit I hadn’t properly understood (until thinking about the rule change) that a Double mp move is potentially possible in the turn after a defeat but also potentially possible while becoming as strong as, or even stronger, than when defeated.

I think there is a penalty for a losing army factored into logistics, ie; RP costs. Having said that I agree it seems that a defeated and subsequently reinforced army actually gets more range of movement. I would think that the army would have to take time to reorganize, collect stragglers etc. I would think half move for next turn might work.

Also, it seems to me that the retreat move is far as it is - 12 hexes in most cases in Summer. I think retreating to a town/port owned by that nation should count as a full retreat move as well.

[kronenblatt]

So how about this?

• An army having:
  • lost a battle must move 8 - 10 MP away from the armies it fought, and any general commanding it is considered killed.
  • drawn a battle must move 4 - 6 MP away from the armies it fought.
  • won a battle is allowed to move 0 - 4 MP in any direction.

• At the beginning of the Movement phase, all armies get 12 MP each to be used for movement that round, provided however that:
  • an army having lost a battle in the previous round gets its movement allowance reduced to 6 MP, and further to 0 MP if reinforced.
  • an army having drawn a battle in the previous round gets its movement allowance reduced to 6 MP if reinforced.
  • armies that begin the round commanded by a general will get an additional +2 MP, i.e., 14 MP.

[Karvon]

Looks fine to me.

Karvon

[SpeedyCM]

Sounds good to me.

[Triarii]

I agree too. Seems to be better reflective of an effort to re-organise.

[SpeedyCM]

I have a question regarding port supply rules, specifically the 4 mp range is that counted from the port to the army or from the army to the town. Logically to me with the port providing supplies to the army it should be counted from the port to the army - but rules don't have to follow logic .
This question came to me when I noticed the Roman army 2 was 5 mp away from the ports in Tomi and Constantinople when counting from the ports to the army but only 3 mp away when counting from the Army to Constantinople.

[kronenblatt]

I have a question regarding port supply rules, specifically the 4 mp range is that counted from the port to the army or from the army to the town. Logically to me with the port providing supplies to the army it should be counted from the port to the army - but rules don't have to follow logic .
This question came to me when I noticed the Roman army 2 was 5 mp away from the ports in Tomi and Constantinople when counting from the ports to the army but only 3 mp away when counting from the Army to Constantinople.

I see: your question concerns whether from port to army or from army to port, when it comes to calculating MP? Basically which hexes to count for movement?

Good question! Rules state:

If a port can provide supply, any of the faction's armies (independent of size) in the port hex and within 4 MP of the port hex is in supply.

So not outright clear. I’d be inclined to answer “from port to army” but let me look in the IR II board game rules for guidance. Will revert.

[kronenblatt]

I have a question regarding port supply rules, specifically the 4 mp range is that counted from the port to the army or from the army to the town. Logically to me with the port providing supplies to the army it should be counted from the port to the army - but rules don't have to follow logic .
This question came to me when I noticed the Roman army 2 was 5 mp away from the ports in Tomi and Constantinople when counting from the ports to the army but only 3 mp away when counting from the Army to Constantinople.

I see: your question concerns whether from port to army or from army to port, when it comes to calculating MP? Basically which hexes to count for movement?

Good question! Rules state:

If a port can provide supply, any of the faction's armies (independent of size) in the port hex and within 4 MP of the port hex is in supply.

So not outright clear. I’d be inclined to answer “from port to army” but let me look in the IR II board game rules for guidance. Will revert.

Actually I more or less copy-pasted the board game rules, so no help there... Only that "within 4 MP of the port hex" suggests that origin is in fact the port hex and then moving up to 4 MP from there. Yes, that is my final answer.

=> from the port to the army (and then counting the army's hex but not the port's hex). Plus that I'll change it to read "within 4 MP from the port hex (counting the army hex but not the port hex)".

[kronenblatt]

I've now updated the rules, coming into effect in this round 3 (other than that all armies get 12 MP, whether having drawn, lost, reinforced or not; that will start in round 4).

Also: Please advise by April 20, 9 PM (Stockholm time) at the latest how you'd like to spend your Army Replacement Points by way of replying to the PM that I sent on April 16.