Continuation War 1941 Beta Test

[Erik2]

10Karhumaki

Ah, the nice, crisp Finnish winters. We've come full circle in this trilogy.

There are 2x 76mmAA units protecting the airfield in the SW corner. I think one of them should be a 40mm Bofors. This would provide better overall protection against whatever kind of Soviet air type attack.

The secondary objectives Karhumäki Hills are a bit problematic since they are closer to the Finnish starting positions than the primary objective, the town itself. Usually sec objs are located farther away than the pri obj.
The player would probably be wary of getting bogged down in front of the sec objs. 24 turns are not a lot considering the winter terrain.

I cheated (added enough resources) at the start of this scenario, upgrading all infantry to ski units.

I went for the sec objs, mainly to check if I was able to pull it off.
In 'real life' (yeah...) I would have put some blocking hvy infantry with AA/AT-support in front of the objs and done the walkabout with the bulk of the forces. But then, I have 4 hours of military service, so what do I know?

I think there are simply too many minefields in this scenario. You can hardly move a couple of hexes before bumping into one. And the player can't really afford to deploy too many engineers either since these are pretty weak in both attack and defense.

The Blackburns reveal a road to Karhumäki is pretty much littered with fortified, well supported Soviet units. I don't think it is possible to break through here even if the sec objs were neglected.
I'm sorry, but by turn 16 I simply gave up. The experience was simply too frustrating.

Remove some of the defenders in front of each sec obj. Change the obj to 'capture at least 1-2 objectives' to give the player an option to choose.

Remove at least 2 inf, 1 AT and 1 Art from the 1st frontline up north in the center.

Add at least 10-12 turns.

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[bru888]

Colonel, it's hard to tell from your test descriptions what is happening, but it sounds like the game is ultimately operating the campaign as designed; witness your original situation which prompted you to post.

One aspect that is going to hamper us going forward is that what you are seeing may be a manifestation of the myriad of bugs introduced by version 8.4.x. I am not proceeding with that upgrade, preferring to stay with 8.3.0. (Erik's post about frequent crashes was the crusher.)

As such, things may work in 8.3.0 that will not work properly in 8.4.x. That is what is going to hamper us and will be something to work around for the future. Fortunately, Erik is committed to 8.4.x and thus he should be able to detect any difficulties during beta evaluation.

[bru888]

Thanks for this comment, Colonel: "For Germany or SS, it [previously unlocked commanders] shouldn't be a problem anyway, because I assume that the only core army that one can import within this campaign is the Finnish core from Winter War 1940." This is indeed the case and therefore I will not need to build the alternative +50 RPs modules for German or SS commanders which will save a great deal of time.

[bru888]

02Kuolajarvi

- increased turns from 18 to 25. This should allow for taking care of enemy units on the flanks and preserving supply lines as Axis forces advance.
- adjusted land unit deployment hexes for the new total number of turns.
- included mentioning Fokker CXs as the recommended tactical bombers for "Disable the Lend-Lease train by air" new objective message (see note below).
- provided for air recon starting on Turn 6 along with the tactical bombers but in a different location (unless the player goofs up deployment - see below).
- removed "Core units" from the "Wehrmacht unit lost" trigger. I believe that's why there was an "Issue with sec obj counter: 'do not lose any Wehrmacht unit'... is considered as failed at the beginning of the third turn, even after having sustained no loss at all!" If the player purchased core Wehrmacht units in 01Salla, and lost at least one of them, that destroyed unit is still on the roster for 02Kuolajarvi. It probably took a couple of turns for there to be a Combat Event for the trigger to fire.
- converted the primary objective to "Scenario turn limit" to allow for secondary objectives to be completed.
- created an "Early scenario ending" trigger for when all objectives are completed.

Note: Colonel, regarding "I think there should an alternative air deployment hex next to the air exit," there was a reason why I placed the deployment hexes for the Finnish tactical bombers where I did. I calculated (and repeatedly tested) for just the right amount of turns to require the player to "fly" very adeptly to not only "stop the train" (it really doesn't go anywhere) and also catch and destroy this fleeing lend-lease Valentine Mark II tank. Notice that the planes have only one more turn to catch the train as it scrambles north before they start running out of fuel:

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Note: Erik, your choice of "Buffalo x1, Ju88 x1" for your air units means you disregarded the advice about tactical bombers in the popup message: "To deal with the Lend-Lease train, you may deploy 2 air Finnish air units. Additional command points and resources are now available. Tactical bombers are recommended. [New objective.]" You are supposed to choose two Fokker CXs which have more hitting power against vehicles, and you do need two for the job. Hence, you probably would not have been able to destroy the train, much less the rogue tank (you may not have been aware of that final objective). Looking ahead, I see that you also "disregarded instructions " in 07Olonets by not using air units to attack the shungite mine. That is the player's prerogative, of course, but it is also the difference between Major and Minor Victory. I keep this in mind in case it lends to cheating on a primary objective but I also do not try to prevent people from "going rogue" on secondary objectives. Early on, I found that trying to do so leaves the player feeling too restricted and overly choreographed.

So now the aerial sequence is this:

Turn 5, beginning the Lend-Lease Train/Tank module (this recon plane is for show only and is immediately removed):

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Turn 6, prompting the player to purchase two Fokker CX tactical bombers and deploy them here:

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Also on Turn 6, allowing the player to deploy an air recon plane here, on the left (unless he goofs up or "goes rogue"):

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[bru888]

By the way, you see the Cyrillic lettering on the Lend-Lease equipment train? I put that there! Here is the original photo, taken in Canada:

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And here is the same photo with revised lettering to suggest a Russian train:

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Yes, the "CA" (as in "Canadian") is still showing. Those letters were too close to the rail worker for a clean edit and I believe "C" and "A" occur in the Cyrillic alphabet, so I left them alone.

How's that for attention to detail, eh?

[bru888]

03Bengtskar

- Swapped a fortress for an AA gun to prevent shenanigans against Hanko airfield (which should not be on the map at all but is there as a bit of designer license to help AI performance).
- increased AI fighters aggression from 75 to 99.

Note: I thought about the "real observers" on outlying islands but the problem is, land units are blind as bats when it comes to looking seaward. They can "see" only one hex out to sea. For them to actually pick up incoming invaders (instead of the narration just saying so) would require some artificial module for no real purpose other than flavor. Hopefully there is enough flavor in this scenario already.

Note: Interesting thoughts about "What about adding directly between 100 to 150 RP?, etc." According to my spreadsheet, Finland is given 851 resource points to purchase approximately 9 core land units during 01Salla (now 871 to cover an air recon plane). At this stage of the war, the player cannot buy tanks but he can buy artillery. So say he does so and ends up with less than six infantry units which is what I had in mind to start 03Bengtskar. Or, say he does what you did and use those RPs to unlock armoured units from WW40 (which gives him a huge advantage, by the way) and also ends up with less than six infantry units which is what I had in mind to start 03Bengtskar. Well, Mister Softee says . . . tough! The player can always sell some of that artillery and armor and buy infantry! ( )

Note: Regarding "I wonder if the Gebirgsjäger would have made a better substitute for the Jäger unit than the current Fallschirmjäger. Feels like a better choice," I decided to stay with the paratroopers because they are more powerful than the mountain troops. This scenario appears to be hard enough so I hesitate to make it more difficult.

[bru888]

04Ienikuvaara

Sorry for this one, guys. Yes, the objectives were too hard, given the amount of time available, and the missions needed to be clarified as to what is actually happening and required. The following changes should rectify these issues and make this scenario more enjoyable while remaining challenging.

Regarding the hunter platoons, no, they don't count for anything but the mission to eliminate them. They are on the map to guard and harass, melting away when injured, returning when restored. Pests to be eliminated.

- added 6 turns, moving from 18 to 24, and adjusted in-game deployment hexes accordingly.

- the third primary mission now is "Prevent five Soviet units from exiting north" (instead of just one unit). That alone ought to even things up a bit and is fair in that if an Axis breakthrough requires 5 exited units, the lost Soviet battalion linking up with its regiment ought to require the same. The mission description is now "Regular enemy units will begin withdrawing north as they lose strength. Five or more escaping units will mean a significant portion of the Soviet 1st Battalion has linked with its regiment. Note: This does not include the hunter platoons (partisans)."

- for the "Hunt down and eliminate all Hunter platoons" objective, the description is now "The mission of these Hunter platoons (partisans) is to scout, harrass, and block our advance as well as functioning as rear guard for the Soviet 1st Battalion. Get 1 Waffen SS specialisation point and 1 Waffen SS land commander." This explains why the partisan units don't try to exit the map themselves.

- revised the briefing as follows for further clarification:

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- revised the second Lt. Danilov message as follows:

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- now the fully array of objectives is as follows:

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Regarding the relative unit counts, I don't think there are any changes warranted. That's not where the problem lay, in my opinion. The Waffen SS land command points permit deployment of 20 infantry units by Turn 2. This compares to 20 Soviet land units, of which only 16 are infantry. The other 4 are weak partisan units which, by the way, cannot cut supply lines. I believe with the clarifications about the Hunter platoons, and the revision to 5 Soviet infantry units needing to escape to fail the player's objective, plus the extra turns, this one should be properly balanced now.

[bru888]

05Sainio

- added +1 air CP for reconnaissance plane.
- provided for 4 Finnish air deployment hexes.
- provided for Soviet airstrip defence to discourage chicanery.
- added two Soviet air commanders.
- built "Or 50 resource points will be awarded if this commander is already unlocked" module.

Note: This comment caused some pondering: "The Soviet units have exp = 3. I think this is a bit too much considering the Finns have not been used too much in earlier scenarios. The Finnish exp is probably still 1 or 2 at the most."

What I have been doing is to ramp up AI experience in a campaign - regardless of the year - as follows: 1 to maximum 5 based on how many turns; for example, in CW41 with 10 scenarios (leave out Kirkenes), 1 for Scenarios 1 and 2, 2 for Scenarios 3 and 4, etc., up to 5 for Scenarios 9 and 10. I think this usually works but this is an unusual campaign in that it has three factions and, indeed, "the Finns have not been used too much in earlier scenarios."

Yet, you also say "A medium difficult scenario, nicely balanced." That tells me that perhaps the Soviets having 3 experience is not a major stumbling block. In return, I will refrain from taking the suggestion "To increase a little the challenge on this one, I think that a little handful of new Soviet units could 'safely' be spawned around the turn 12 or so."

[bru888]

06Terijoki41

- added +1 air CP for reconnaissance plane.
- provided for 4 Finnish air deployment hexes.
- added 6 turns, moving from 24 to 30, and adjusted in-game deployment hexes accordingly.
- fixed bug where AI fighters were left on Idle.
- built two "Or 50 resource points will be awarded if this commander is already unlocked" modules.
- changed the trigger for exiting friendly units from "Move Event" to "Turn Start" to more logically display results (else, the player must move one unit in the following turn to see the counter increment).
- included a popup message at Scenario Start (before deployment) about the advisability of engineers to deal with mines.
- changed artillery from seek & destroy to local defense (3) which is more appropriate for this scenario (prevents 122mm guns from wandering).
- added "Land units only" stipulation to "Exit at least 8 units on the road to Leningrad" objective description.
- moved the Soviet AI airfield up four hexes and provided defence against licentiousness.
- converted one primary objective to "Scenario turn limit" and created an "Early scenario ending" trigger to allow for completing all secondary objectives if possible.

[bru888]

At this point, I uploaded version 0.92.

[ColonelY]

10Karhumaki:

This one is really challenging.

I agree with Erik comments, but I suggest to remove only some of the minefields in the northern part of the map...

Well, I had to give myself several hundreds of extra RPs too, even at the commencement of this scenario...

[ColonelY]

03Bengtskar

[...]

Note: Interesting thoughts about "What about adding directly between 100 to 150 RP?, etc." According to my spreadsheet, Finland is given 851 resource points to purchase approximately 9 core land units during 01Salla (now 871 to cover an air recon plane). At this stage of the war, the player cannot buy tanks but he can buy artillery. So say he does so and ends up with less than six infantry units which is what I had in mind to start 03Bengtskar. Or, say he does what you did and use those RPs to unlock armoured units from WW40 (which gives him a huge advantage, by the way) and also ends up with less than six infantry units which is what I had in mind to start 03Bengtskar. Well, Mister Softee says . . . tough! The player can always sell some of that artillery and armor and buy infantry! ( )

[...]

Yes, these armored unis are really useful! That's precisely why they've been chosen as soon as possible.

Well, well, may I insist just a little about those additional RPs in 03Bengtskar?
Indeed, out of, let's say, "basic" safety reasons already presented, we've seen some issues due to a lack of RPs at least in the last scenario, 10Karhumaki... so soon or later these additional RPs may become really handy!

[bru888]

Well, well, may I insist just a little about those additional RPs in 03Bengtskar?
Indeed, out of, let's say, "basic" safety reasons already presented, we've seen some issues due to a lack of RPs at least in the last scenario, 10Karhumaki... so soon or later these additional RPs may become really handy!

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Mister Softee says . . . Mister Softee SAYS. . . oh, alright. 210 RP's (35 x 6 each for 1941 Finnish infantry) and not a ducat more!

This campaign with three factions is a bit strange, I grant you. Normal faction RP and experience development is disrupted in this one.

[ColonelY]

Fine, thanks!

[bru888]

10Karhumaki

I cheated (added enough resources) at the start of this scenario, upgrading all infantry to ski units.

10Karhumaki

Well, I had to give myself several hundreds of extra RPs too, even at the commencement of this scenario...

Well, that's the last straw! Or straws! (Kindly said, though. )

I should have stuck with my gut feeling and left all of those RP bonuses at 100 instead of 50. Instead, I listened to youse guys wallowing in RPs to start WW40 and thought there was a glut, so I cut them all back to 50. Then came complaints in later scenarios: "Not enough RPs!" Same now in CW41! ( )

I approach CSD systematically; it's what I do (did), creating spreadsheets and apply algorithms in such matters as resource points. I believe in my system, as I must because I don't actually play out these scenarios and campaigns. I spend too much time designing them! Sometime down the road (when I have mostly forgotten), I will play them for enjoyment and maybe then adjust them as needed for my own tastes.

So for now, yes, RPs are calculated based on average costs (and CPs, of course) and are awarded as the player needs to purchase core units. The +1 RP per unit, per turn is debatable, of course, but I'm sticking to that too.

Also, RP bonuses will be 100 at a time instead of 50. Maybe if my system is too stingy (until recently, I thought it was too generous), this will make up for it. I would much rather have sufficient RPs than to see two experienced players needing to purchase warbonds toward the end of the campaign.

And as always, once I turn these scenarios and campaigns back over to Erik, he is welcome to make any subsequent changes that he deems advisable.

[ColonelY]

From one campaign to another, there is some "core import experience" or something (at about 50% in our case, I think)...

So, is it possible to do the same with our remaining RPs, at the end of the Winter War 39 for the new Winter War 40 and later at the end of the Winter War 40 for the next Continuation War 1941?

I don't know whether it's possible nor if it would be a good idea, but anyway it's an idea...

It may be faster than changing back all bonus modules and relevant as well - if we've spared RPs previously, they should still be available, or the majority of them at least...

[ColonelY]

I think we'll have to redo some tests a little later, replay these three campaigns by being particularly attentive to the available RPs in order to see if we still need to add (or even remove) more and where... Or, at the very least, with this idea in mind, replay this new Continuation War 1941 with its 3 factions (which is an awesome campaign, by the way ).

[Erik2]

At some point I will play all 3 campaigns in succession without cheating
Being able to import cores, commanders and specialisations is of course and advantage in the two latter campaigns.

I'm not quite sure about the alternative resource reward if commanders are already rewarded.
This means it will be even more easy to play the last two campaigns.
Why am I saying 'easy'...

[ColonelY]

I think this alternative resource reward is really nice - otherwise, in some cases, there would be (almost) no more reward at all!

And now it's already implemented, so better think twice before removing it.


Is it possible to import as well a part of the remaining RPs?


Somehow a little easier like this, of course, but the majority of players should anyway play a campaign after another, probably respecting the chronology for this (may we call it like this) great "trilogy"...

[Erik2]

I don't think there is a provision for importing left-over resources to the next campaign.
Remember that a new campaign will/should provide you with enough starting resources.
Ideally a single campaign should be balanced and winnable.
The carry-over commanders/specs will un-balance the campaign a bit.
Not that I'm complaining. I obviously need all the help I can get.