”XV century AD – Mediterranean Campaign”

[stockwellpete]

I really like the new rules. Two questions . . .

i) what happens if a faction runs out of money and a random event says they have to pay for something?
ii) what happens if a province is attacked half-way through the time it takes to build fortifications? Presumably it is treated as if there are no fortifications present but if the defending player holds on to the province then the fortifications are completed after four days?

[stockwellpete]

I wish to fortify Lazio (Papal States) and I wish to purchase one fleet. That will cost me 100 ducats.

[batesmotel]

Challenge posted fior iandavidsmith for my invasion of Murcia, password "granadine".

Land attack.
Castilian attack Murcia from Andalusia.
750 points, DM on, FoW off.

Chris

[Triarii]

The most Catholic armies of Aragon will
1 attack the province of Languadoc from Catalonia.
Land attack CT to LG - 750 points Fog on DM on
and
2 Cross the straights of Messina to annex the province of Calabria.
Land attack (please advise Lysimachos) Sc to Cb - 750 points Fog on DM on

Aragon notes and deplores the aggression against Navarre by their Iberian neighbours in Castille and will provide counsel to the knights of Navarre.

[Lysimachos]

I really like the new rules. Two questions . . .

i) what happens if a faction runs out of money and a random event says they have to pay for something?
ii) what happens if a province is attacked half-way through the time it takes to build fortifications? Presumably it is treated as if there are no fortifications present but if the defending player holds on to the province then the fortifications are completed after four days?

1) If a nation hasn't got money the event will have no effect
2) If the attack is declared half way this won't affect the building of the fortifications that will be available for the defence of the province.

[Lysimachos]

The most Catholic armies of Aragon will
2 Cross the straights of Messina to annex the province of Calabria.
Land attack (please advise Lysimachos) Sc to Cb - 750 points Fog on DM on

Sorry Mike, but your second attack won't be liable, with the new rules, until you'll build a fleet.

[Triarii]

OK Boss - second action is now build a fleet - or a tunnel?

[hidde]

Hafsid Kingdom return it's current (non-existing) fleet to port and build two(2) new ones.

[iandavidsmith]

Challenge posted fior iandavidsmith for my invasion of Murcia, password "granadine".

Land attack.
Castilian attack Murcia from Andalusia.
750 points, DM on, FoW off.

Chris

Why don't i ever win the Lottery when its money involved

[Lysimachos]

Hafsid Kingdom return it's current (non-existing) fleet to port and build two(2) new ones.

Sorry Anders but at the moment you're allowed to build only one fleet because the other action slot is already occupied by the attack on Tripolitania, where heroic troops are standing their ground against you.

[Lysimachos]

In order to avoid any misunderstanding I wanto to make clear the every agreement is allowed that not thwart the written rules of the game.
So, for example, it will be impossible to cede provinces, fleets, siege trains, fortifications and so on in order to maintain a bit of historical credibility.
The rule therefore is modified as follows:

Diplomatic Agreements
The players may conclude agreements of every kind that not contrast with the written rules of the game regarding the building of fleets, fortifications and siege trains and the acquisition of provinces making them formal with their declaration on the forum. Agreements are enforceable by the umpire only when a fine in money is determined for the case of a violation. Every other aspect of the treaty that has already taken place won't be liable of being reversed.

[stockwellpete]

1. A potted history of the Duchy of Milan 1395-1500

The Duchy of Milan came into existence in May 1395 when Gian Galeazzo Visconti paid a sum of 100,000 florins to King Wenceslaus of the Romans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GiovA ... sconti.jpg

His ambition was to revive the Lombard empire and create a united Italy. He fought a war with Bologna and Florence in 1400-2 and won an important victory at Casalechio in 1402.

However he died of fever later that year and was succeeded by his son, Gian Maria Visconti, who ruled from1402-1412 before being assassinated by Milanese Ghibellines (supporters of Holy Roman emperor against the Pope).

The most durable Visconti ruler was another son of Gian Galeazzo – Filippo Maria Visconti (1412-1447). Wikipedia describes him as “Cruel, paranoid and extremely sensitive about his personal ugliness” so he is nothing like me at all really!

Two major outbreaks of fighting occurred during his reign – a war with Florence and Venice between 1423-7 which ended with the Milanese being heavily defeated at Maclodio in 1427. After this there was a war with the Italian League (including Florence, Papacy, Venice) and the Milanese were defeated at Angihiari in 1440.

This is me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Filip ... sconti.jpg

Here is a map of the Duchy of Milan . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Venezia1450.jpg

Note that Genoa is not part of the Duchy of Milan - it has its own thin stretch of territory along the coastline. This is important inasmuch as in the campaign the Duchy of Milan has a small island called Samos as part of its territories in the Aegean. In fact, this island was owned by a Genoese trading family called Giustiniani (between 1346 and 1566).

In 1447 Filippo Maria Visconti died and there followed a short interlude known as the Ambrosian Republic (1447-1450) when members of the University of Pavia ruled the territory with popular support.

The Republic was attacked by Venice and in 1450 a new dynasty took control. The Sforzas ruled Milan from 1450 to 1499 before they were overthrown by Louis XII of France.

[Lysimachos]

Diplomatic Agreement between the Venetians and the Milanese

The Venetians:
1) call off the attack on Emilia,
2) oblige themselves not to attack the Milanese until the 30th of september,
3) oblige themselves to launch, with their first eligible action, a land, amphibious or allied attack vs every nation that will dare to attack the Milanese.
The Milanese:
1) grant the Venetians a commercial treaty worth 150 ducats,
2) oblige themselves not to attack the Venetians until the 30th of september,
3) oblige themselves to launch, with their first eligible action, a land, amphibious or allied attack vs every nation that will dare to attack the Venetians.
The two party agree that every violation of the treaty will be sanctioned with a fine of 50 ducats.

[Lysimachos]

In execution of the diplomatic agreement reached with the Milanese the venetians call off the attack against Emilia and otherwise build a fleet.

[Lysimachos]

Venetians (Lysimachos) 37/61 Later Serbians (Stockwellpete) 64/64

a (total BG difference between the rout threshold of two armies) : b (total BGs of both armies) = x : 100
(24:125=x:100) = 19,2% - strategic victory

The glorious Venetian army has conquered the province of Slavonia streghtening the grasp of the Republic on the Adriatic shore!

[batesmotel]

Am I missing something or are we playing this campaign with no way to generate income. If this is so, I guess the world will eventually run out of siege trains, fleets, etc, once all the initial money assigned to the players has been spent/lost.

Chris

[stockwellpete]

Am I missing something or are we playing this campaign with no way to generate income. If this is so, I guess the world will eventually run out of siege trains, fleets, etc, once all the initial money assigned to the players has been spent/lost.

Chris

I think finance is one of the most tricky problems to solve in these sort of campaigns. If the rules are too complex or too fiddly then it can become a nightmare for the organiser(s) to keep on top of. At the moment in this campaign we just have to budget sensibly for the duration and keep some money in reserve as an "emergency fund". I think this is perfectly OK given that we are already trying out a number of new ideas.

But looking further forward to future campaigns, I suppose one possible way of dealing with income generation that would not be too onerous for the organiser would be to say something like, on the first day of each month (or the first and the sixteenth of each month) each player will be able to replenish their treasury according to the number of provinces they have - so if you have six provinces you might get 60 or 120 ducats to represent income from trade and taxation. And you might want to say that differentials should be be introduced for the capital and core province of each player - so you would get 40 ducats for your capital, 20 for your core and 10 for any other province you control (or something in a similar ratio).

Other ideas I have might include getting bonuses for controlling key trade routes, or controlling the Pope, or maybe winning a strategic victory in a battle (plunder).

I think something along these lines would not be too-time consuming for the organiser(s) - it would probably take an hour to calculate it in a campaign this size. At least it would involve calculations only at four or five points in the campaign - it would not mean that the organiser(s) would have to keep running totals constantly up to date, at least.

[Lysimachos]

Am I missing something or are we playing this campaign with no way to generate income. If this is so, I guess the world will eventually run out of siege trains, fleets, etc, once all the initial money assigned to the players has been spent/lost.

Chris

Yes Chris, you're right.
One reason is to take the managing of the campaign as simple as possible.
But I'd like to remind you:
1) that the amount of the treasury has been calculated in order to make it sufficient for the foreseen duration of the campaign (and if we'll decide to prolonge it an extra amount of ducats will be furnished to every player),
2) that these ducats aren't all going to disappear from the game because they are going to be transformed in fleets and fortifications (that will remain in the play at least for some weeks) and also because some of them circulate among the player as the result of diplomatic agreements.

The second and more important reason is that choosing to distribute money during the campaign in proportion of the provinces owned by every player would greatly favour stronger players penalizing the weaker ones and making them lose interest in the prosecution of the game. Whereas a satisfactory campaign implies that every player maintain a fair chance of defending its lands with some success.

[Lysimachos]

The Venetian Republic carries on his attempt of subduing the Adriatic coast.

Land Attack
Venetians attack Albania (target) from Slavonia (starting point).
400 pts. Battle, DM and FoW on.
Defending army led by a player randomly chosen with the lottery draw of Tuesday.

[TheGrayMouser]

Sigh, so begins the naval arms race:

Ottomans purchases one Fleet with our one curent available action for 50 clams.


********************

Hey Lys., I think the fleets rule needs a quick review

what happens if player A owns 3 fleets and is attacked same turn/amphibious by player C who has one fleet and player B that has two fleets..
Does that mean A cant be attacked from sea in that situation? ie he forces a retreat by both B and C?

I personally feel the "one more" fleet rule is a little to harsh and will just lead to constant purchases of fleets to NEVER having to worring about naval threats...

Also, what happens in this situation
its saterday , hours away from the next lotto draw
Player A owns a fleet
Player B owns a fleet

A declares fortify sea province x, per the rules this will be operational on Wednesday @ 2300 GMT

Sneeky player B sees that posting on the forum, and declares a naval invasion of X specifically cause player A basically told him, so to speak, "if you dont attack it now it will be a pain 4 days from now" !
The lotto result states his fleet got thru.....
per the rules player B has no need to worry about the fort ( or sieg train )which assumably will still have been paid for by A...