AAR: Operation Barbarossa-Fortress Europa(no Massina please)

[joerock22]

I do not believe that anything needs to be changed. As Ronnie said, supermax is a special case. This will only work for him because he took the initiative and eliminated France early. Also, is there any historical evidence that the Italians and Germans could not have mounted this kind of surprise landing in Egypt before the British were prepared? I doubt it.

[Rhialto]

I agree with Joe. There is an unfortunate trend in the GS development towards patches with modifications aimed at making novel offensive strategies impossible on the grounds that historically these strategies were not attempted, or that these strategies will be used by players as 'automatic wins'. Sometimes this is reasonable, as with an axis invasion of Canada (Supermax's last innovation) now triggering an early US declaration of war. On the other hand, with strategies such as an allied invasion of Ireland or an early Axis invasion of Egypt: why not? Keeps the game interesting in allowing deviation from the historical course of events.

[supermax]

Ah, so this is what you've been planning. A very clever strategy, invading Egypt before your opponent can move his units. You always seem to come up with innovative strategies. I am very curious to see how this works out for you!

Well, i am very nervous and i havent been like that in a long time in CEAW. Last time was in my Amerika in Flames AAr... If i miss this one, the game is done for the Axis.

But i have made sure ive got enough assets. When i gamble i either go big or no show

[supermax]

Wow...very interesting, so Greece was just a diversion i guess? Like you said he can´t move his troops, not even use the ports in egypt right?

What he could do is keep the CV south of Suezcanal just to bombard from the other side, will be hard to get him out of there unless he wants.

Crazyg

Yep Greece was just a little mental game on my part just in case some people would get some compromising info to Massina... Its like trhowing a wrench in the wheelthinking! hehehe Putting my AAR to good use hey?

[supermax]

It´s always fun to see how you always seem to ignore the seatransport/seaborne invasion penalty. ha ha ha

Yep... Well, it always has to do with the results. Like i overpayed incredible amounts of PP in my other AAR because it was worth it i got England and USa to surrender. In this game if all goes minimally according to my calculations, i should have the whole Middle East by mid 1941.

[supermax]

Interesting move, if you get the Suez Channel quickly, the Med is yours. However, should he defend it succesfully for a few turns, the RN could move via the Red Sea and then enter the Med via the channel. The resulting naval battle will thenn be interesting to watch (especially if you get Gibraltar and can bring in the Kriegsmarine.

Do not forget that a BB is also waiting in the Persian Gulf which could quickly be brought to the Med. Furthermore, if Massina played cleverly, he retreated the CV to one of the British ports in the Med. From there he can bombard the invasion force relatively unmolested, until you get the city.

Cheers Zechi

Yep. Thats why 2 TACS are part of the first landing force. Port Said only has a Garrison and should be attacked from 3-4 sides on the second turn of my landing + 2 TACS. This should be enough. I know that The Canal has to fall rapidly for this to work, but i am fairly confident that it is doable. I also need to outsupply the north african army (tanks and such) rapidly as well...

[supermax]

Looks like the Med and the Mid East is Axis. In that context I suppose the -6 cost (how much in PPs?) for overtransport to the poor Italian economy is worth it!

exactly my friend, that is my thinking. The Italians will take 10 turns to financially recover when i am done, but its all worth it, they wont have to defend ITaly for the whole game

[supermax]

Supermax is so Supermax. I never even think about transport cap overuse to -6, this sort of thing simple dont exist in my mind...Bu he does it!

hell, why not?

For a while i also hesitated, but then i told myself lets go hehehe

[supermax]

I agree with Joe. There is an unfortunate trend in the GS development towards patches with modifications aimed at making novel offensive strategies impossible on the grounds that historically these strategies were not attempted, or that these strategies will be used by players as 'automatic wins'. Sometimes this is reasonable, as with an axis invasion of Canada (Supermax's last innovation) now triggering an early US declaration of war. On the other hand, with strategies such as an allied invasion of Ireland or an early Axis invasion of Egypt: why not? Keeps the game interesting in allowing deviation from the historical course of events.

I agree with you... Problem with this is that it removes any excitemetn from the game. Now most game are alike... I hope they dont change this since its very easy to counter with allis by sending more ships.

Lets hopes they dont do this move for the 2.0 edition. This games needs to be innovative or you just get tired of playing the same games over and over again.

[supermax]

Alternatively in v2.00 we may have to consider limiting the inactive period to just a couple of turns.....

I should hope so. In this instance Germany and the UK are already at war, so it seems odd that the Axis can have total initiative against the UK units in the med, in effect treating those British units as if they belonged to a country Germany had yet to declare war upon.

Perhaps there is a rationale here that escapes me, but it seems like adjusting this is in order, especially since more Axis players will take advantage of this strategy if it is as successful as it appears it will be.

All glory to Max for figuring out yet another brilliant strategy for this game.

I'll bet he never goes to work the same way every day!

Yep, i always use a different route i have 3 choices for real how did you figure that out that i never take the same route? hahaha funny its soo true

[supermax]

Perhaps there is a rationale here that escapes me, but it seems like adjusting this is in order, especially since more Axis players will take advantage of this strategy if it is as successful as it appears it will be.

It was to give the axis player a bit of time to reinforce North Africa. We found that when the Egypt entered at the same time that Italy did that the allied player would rush Libya before the axis player had time to build up.

The main reason I see that Max's strategy is working (or will work) is that he took out France exteremly early and was able to capture Gibralter and move a massive German/Italian invasion force into and to the east Med before Egypt/Iraq entered. I don't see this happening too often. Max is definitely a special case.

hehehe

[supermax]

German recon plane over the skies of Egypt




ME109 near Tobruk


Roma and Vittorio Veneto in action off the coast of Egypt




Roma sailing toward Port Said



Vittorio Veneto covering the flanks of german landing crafts

[Crazygunner1]

Hi Max

In my AAr against Massina i did a massive defense of France by transporting almost every brittish unit avaliable including the GAR in Egypt. He was somewhat surprised that it was possible so he is probably trying it now. Very unlucky timing for him i would say......he he

Egypt won´t be any problem to secure, seems you even gonna get a port the first turn. The oilfields should be in your hands by the end of 1940.

[supermax]

Hi Max

In my AAr against Massina i did a massive defense of France by transporting almost every brittish unit avaliable including the GAR in Egypt. He was somewhat surprised that it was possible so he is probably trying it now. Very unlucky timing for him i would say......he he

Egypt won´t be any problem to secure, seems you even gonna get a port the first turn. The oilfields should be in your hands by the end of 1940.

The trick is to move as fast as possible to Iraq and secure BAgdad before the Brits reinforce it too much, or this could be a long protracted campaign. Also will send every available ships once i get Port Said in the southern Atlantic to block any reinforcing moves.

[supermax]

Sorry for being misleading about the reals objectives of my game, but here is the real version. I think now that the rest of the game should go according to normal procedures, unles i can (i am dreaming of something now that i can smell the oil..) do another bold thing, depending on my 1941 Russian offensive.

So here is the "revised" strategy that should have been there on turn 1 of the AAR:

Phase 1: Destroy Belgium rapidly, and drive thru France as early as possible, Paris needing to fall before end of december.

Phase 2: Drive thru Spain as soon as possible and try to hint as much as possible toward a Sealion. Make believe ennemy that campaign is directed in the west

Phase 3: Once Italy is in the war, decisively move all available italian forces unto transport, while railing german forces (flying munich-based TAC and Fighters as well) to ports to be embarked. GOAL: LAND before Egypt is in the war.

Phase 4: With Panzer Armée Africa, take Egypt, then drive as fast as possible to Bagdad while moving all available naval forces to south Atlantic to block land reinforcments to Middle East. Also production for Land Barbarossa shall be taken underway as soon as june.

Phase 5: Launch a decisive Barbasossa , with the help of 5-6 tanks, MECH and 4 TACS. (2 other TACS in Middle east). Dream: If enough time, move forces to northern Iran and attack Russians from the south... Ahh sweet dreams... Will i have time? At least it is plausible for 1942.

Phase 6: The 1941 campaign territorial goal is to occupy a line going from besieged Leningrad in the north to Rostov in the south. The main goal is to destroy as much russian forces as possible, so we go where the enney is and engage him.

Phase 7: On the turn of the Barbrossa decl of war, start building major naval force to challenge the western allies. By then ITaly should have recovered from its middle eastern adventures, and will only be producing naval assets as well.

Phase 8: Establish a defensive line east of Moscow (toward Gorki) in 1942 with a limited offensive there, while driving a 2 pronged atack through the Caucasus.

Potential different phase 8: If Massina gets stubborn and decides to defend forward in 1941, this will give me the opportunity of launching myself into Siberia and go for the ultimate prize and the downfall of Russia

Phase 9: End the war on a defensive stance unless oil permits germany to have an awesome airfleet to bombard the shit out of its ennemies.

[afk_nero]

Sounds good,

I would not ignore tangiers however - as they will use this As a base to launch attacks from. Itshouldnt take much to remove the garrison.

[ferokapo]

This is a great plan, looking forwart to seeing how it unfolds!

As for your imminent operation in Egypt: Why will the 8th Army be out of supply next turn? There is still Cairo, which you cannot take immediately, and also it seems you cannot block all land hexes.

[supermax]

This is a great plan, looking forwart to seeing how it unfolds!

As for your imminent operation in Egypt: Why will the 8th Army be out of supply next turn? There is still Cairo, which you cannot take immediately, and also it seems you cannot block all land hexes.

There are only 2 hexe on wich their supply an more thru. I will land 2 troops(the german one first) and make the 2 INf retreat, thus outsupplyyingthe tank and the MECH. With my 3 tacs and 1 fighter it shouldnt be too hard to achieve.

[Plaid]

Phase 5: Launch a decisive Barbasossa , with the help of 5-6 tanks, MECH and 4 TACS. (2 other TACS in Middle east). Dream: If enough time, move forces to northern Iran and attack Russians from the south... Ahh sweet dreams... Will i have time? At least it is plausible for 1942.

Maybe I am wrong, but decisive Barbarossa supposed to have ~ 10 tanks from my point.

[supermax]

Phase 5: Launch a decisive Barbasossa , with the help of 5-6 tanks, MECH and 4 TACS. (2 other TACS in Middle east). Dream: If enough time, move forces to northern Iran and attack Russians from the south... Ahh sweet dreams... Will i have time? At least it is plausible for 1942.

Maybe I am wrong, but decisive Barbarossa supposed to have ~ 10 tanks from my point.

I always do Barbarossa with a MAx of 4 tanks and have had quite my share of success.