old Potzblitz thread (discontinued)

[TripleCP]

Thanks very much for Potzblitz, and for all you've done for the community!

I agree wholeheartedly and want to also express my gratitude. Thanks for the detailed point by point reply...will respond in detail tomorrow.

[Robotron]

Just had a quick testgame with Russian and AH setups changed according to TripleCps proposals and CP AI went straight for Radom and Lublin and begun encircling Warsaw while Russia was unable to even capture Lemberg. Needs some more fine tuning I guess, especially when AH starts with additional generals.

Setting Dortmund as western "capital" for Germany did indeed produce a more aggressive Germany. Nice but maybe this was pure coincidence, will have to re-test.

Small garrisons with max strength 5 turned out to be okay actually, preventing the player from overly relying on these free troops to hold against serious attacks which makes the game much more interesting in my opinion.

[cwaters23]

With regard to TripleCP's point number 17 on creating neutral territory along the French/Italian border, one option might be to assign ownership of some hexes to a nation that has almost no chance of actually entering the game. The White Finland faction would seem to be a good option. Some sections of Switzerland might also be given this treatment in order to create some impassable terrain and force funneling through passes in the Alps (to help curb the effect of a late-game Swiss entry that helps the Entente AI way too much). Of course there would be nothing to stop a "gamey" human player from just declaring war on that neutral faction to get around it, but in general that wouldn't gain any advantage since the problems with Italy and Switzerland really only exist for a human CP player versus AI Entente.

[Robotron]

@cwaters: I fooled around a bit with that "impassable" ownership status for hexes and LO AND BEHOLD it really does work!

Wow, this is really something! Now I can block the reinforcements to Italy until, let's say, Milan has been taken by CP or whatever. Wondering what else could be done by using impassable hexes...maybe really block some hexes in Belgium to allow a "race to the sea"? Any ideas from you guys?

My head is spinning!

[Zombo]

Yep, Race to the Sea would be great!
BTW, Italians flooding Serbia through Albania should be off-limits too, but I guess there's nothing one can do against troops just embarking on ships and unloading where they want

[TripleCP]

The Masurian Lakes region in East Prussia comes to mind, as one the key aspects of the East Prussia campaign was that Rennenkampf and Samsonov had to advance separately because of them.

Blocking certain mountain areas in the Alps, Carpathians, etc. might be useful too. Maybe with passable hexes where known mountain passes were. That would make them more realistically defensible by fewer units but would still allow unopposed armies to advance.

May be worth experimenting with sealing off the Caucuses (make Tilfis a capital rather than Tsaristyn) to stop Russia's southern migration strategy.

[Zombo]

May be worth experimenting with sealing off the Caucuses (make Tilfis a capital rather than Tsaristyn) to stop Russia's southern migration strategy.

good idea too
I've used and abused of that strategy, but I must say it's kinda cheesy

[TripleCP]

Please provide exakt hex coordinates where you think the units of the Russian 8th should be placed (hex coordinates are displayed above turn date).

Four Russian Infantry facing Austria at:

115,24 (Lublin) representing the Russian 4th Army
117,24 representing the Russian 5th Army
119,26 representing the Russian 3rd Army
121,28 representing the Russian 8th Army

Through espionage, the Russians had obtained Austria's 1911 war plans which called for a concentration around Lemberg with the intent to cut off the Polish salient in conjunction with a hoped-for German offensive out of East Prussia. The Russian plan was to have all four armies converge on Lemberg (the 3rd and 8th to attack Lemberg directly, with the 4th and 5th to cut its line of communications with Przemysl. However, the Austrians had changed their plans when it became clear that Germany intended to remain on the defensive in the East and took a more defensive posture.

[Vokt]

Four Russian Infantry facing Austria at:

115,24 (Lublin) representing the Russian 4th Army
117,24 representing the Russian 5th Army
119,26 representing the Russian 3rd Army
121,28 representing the Russian 8th Army

Through espionage, the Russians had obtained Austria's 1911 war plans which called for a concentration around Lemberg with the intent to cut off the Polish salient in conjunction with a hoped-for German offensive out of East Prussia. The Russian plan was to have all four armies converge on Lemberg (the 3rd and 8th to attack Lemberg directly, with the 4th and 5th to cut its line of communications with Przemysl. However, the Austrians had changed their plans when it became clear that Germany intended to remain on the defensive in the East and took a more defensive posture.

Would it possible to add those Russian Imperial Army unit names on the top of the counters?

[TripleCP]

Would it possible to add those Russian Imperial Army unit names on the top of the counters?

I think you can custom name units if you're so inclined, but I doubt any more than that is feasible. Besides, the AI will probably send half of Russia's armies in Poland to the Caucuses anyway.

[satchel]

I think you can custom name units if you're so inclined, but I doubt any more than that is feasible. Besides, the AI will probably send half of Russia's armies in Poland to the Caucuses anyway.

Ideally, we'd name all the units. It's not too daunting a prospect, if we can get the names to stick and incorporate that into the setup, but the problem is that newly-created units don't get names, which breaks the continuity.

For example, I always get a kick out of following the adventures of the French Armée d'Afrique during the course of the game.

[nehi]

u can always play just with starting armies

in vanilla its not such problem, but in potz it could be real challenge

[Robotron]

About having units named from the start: I had a look at the scenario script but could not find a way to define individual unit names (e.g. 1st Russian Army) there. The scenario script only allows giving values for unit type, deployment hexes and facing. Adding something like

Code: Select all

 {type = "infantry", hex = {115, 24}, facing = "left", name = "1ST RUSSIAN ARMY"},  

did not work.

Then had a look at the function responsible for renaming units hoping to find a possible connection with the scenario script but here the names are just added to the unit.id via a parameter. Not sure how to solve this yet.

In other news: finally found a way to display collapse points



and found an uncompleted system for unit experience points buried in the scripts allowing units to have either green, trained, veteran or elite status. To get an experience level a unit must have killed a certain amount of enemy strength points and the rank will be displayed by a medal. Got it working now but I'm a bit at a loss about how strongly it should affect units...maybe 10% more strength for trained, 25% for veteran and 50% for elite?

Lots of more bells and whistles added to the mod, including a system for sea mines, zeppelin patrolling, reduced small garrisons, more citys, events, generals and whatnot.

Stay tuned.

[TripleCP]

Great news all around. Hope you can get that experience system working, though I'd make the case that maybe the biggest jump should be between "green" and "trained" status.

Re: the issue of the CP besieging Warsaw at the outset, consider adding the fortress of Ivangorod (modern Deblin) NE of Radom. If you're still planning to add Lodz, maybe ditch Radom because it'll be overkill. You might also consider having a Russian Infantry or two spawn around Warsaw if German units (not Austro-Hungarian) get too close. This actually somewhat corresponds to reality when the German Ninth Army (comprised mostly of units from the Eighth Army and commanded by von Hindenburg) advanced from Breslau to Warsaw in October along with the First AH Army (Dankl) to its south. It was only when they reached the outskirts of Warsaw that they realized the Russians had withdrawn units from the East Prussian and Silesian fronts to mass four armies (the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 9th) behind the Vistula for an offensive into Silesia. While this caught the Germans off guard, they were able to retreat faster than the Russians could pursue (and subsequently redeploy via train to the Thorn area to hit the flank of the Russian armies in the Lodz Campaign).

In the current version, the Russians begin hitting Lemberg, Przemysl, and Krakow on their first turn and still have enough in Poland to begin threatening Posen and Danzig. In the actual campaign, the Austrians seized the initiative and pushed the Russians back to Lublin. It was bad enough that some of the Russian commanders really did consider a general withdrawal to the Brest-Litovsk fortress line, especially after Tannenberg when it was feared that the German Eighth Army might keep pursuing the remnants of Samsonov's army and meet up with the Austrians east of Warsaw. As it happened, the Germans tuned north to deal with Rennenkampf and Conrad sent the bulk of his Fourth Army in a failed attempt to retrieve the situation east of Lemberg (where the Austrian Third Army narrowly avoided being destroyed after a foolhardy advance against the Russian Third and Eighth Armies).

As far as the numbers on both sides at Tannenberg and First Masurian Lakes, it's hard to know. Some sources claim that both Rennenkampf's and Samsonov's armies were each individually stronger than the German Eighth Army, and on paper they probably were. On the other hand, at least one other fairly recent account claims that the two Russian armies likely fielded no more than 250,000 men between them after accounting for all the detachments sent to reinforce various fortresses, the Baltic Coast, etc., while the Eighth Army added so many Landwehr and garrison troops to its ranks that it was close to 200,000 strong even before adding the reinforcements that arrived from the West after Tannenberg.

Looking forward to the next update and the PDF.

[Zombo]

though I'd make the case that maybe the biggest jump should be between "green" and "trained" status.

Agreed. Some formations were indeed "elite", but never army size; and there's a "diminishing returns" thing about experience.
The only exception I could imagine is for Germans once the Stosstruppen tactics were well honed and employed massively, but then, at the end of the war, German armies also started too absorb elements of declining morale.

This makes me think that maybe there could be a way to link national to unit effectiveness ( via "experience" - in this case a compound of experience and morale). This could produce really interesting and realistic effects - the collapse of the Germans after the failed Kaiserschlacht, the disintegrating Russians, etc

[TripleCP]

What would be really interesting is if the nations with the most developed reservist systems (France and Germany) were able to produce new "Trained" units for a period of time so long as they don't lose too many of their starting units (basically representing the experienced cadre of officers and NCOs that the reservist formations were built around). By contrast, the Austrians and Russians should be susceptible to losing this ability quickly (if they have it at all) because they had a much shallower pool of well-trained officers and NCOs to draw from. The casualties of 1914 really affected the performance of both because the reservists just couldn't replace the trained units that were wiped out (one reason why the destruction of Samsonov's Army was so devastating...the Russians were able to reconstitute the 2nd Army within weeks, but many of the reservist formations which comprised it were considered little more than garrison troops). Austria-Hungary was also hit badly because so many of the multilingual officers and NCOs of the prewar army were lost in Poland and Galicia.

On an unrelated note, could Belgium be given a low PP capital or city on the African coast to represent the Congo (and allow them to continue supporting an Infantry unit "Army in Exile" if they evacuate their territory)? If that works, perhaps Serbia could also be given an enclave in Greece (Corfu) so they can support an exile force in Salonika.

[Moreau]

I got to say good job Robotron,with these news it basically seems like you will make the game 10x better
when will you release the next update?

[Robotron]

@moreau: right now I'm trying to implement TripleCPs proposal for certain nations to be able to produce trained units for a limited amount of time. Still unsure about the % combat strength modifier for trained, veteran and elite/shock units. Any proposals? Also I would be glad to hear from you guys which, if any, units should start with an above-than-trained experience level at the start of the game (the BEF comes in mind).

Also discovered traces of an obviously abandoned and therefore quite rudimentary "diplomatic" system where the player could use PPs to influence neutral nations to join his alliance according to the neutral's alignment (failure would cost PPs and aggravate the neutral). Unsure about whether this is a good thing and how (if at all) to teach the AI to use it.

[nehi]

10/20/30%, 50 seems too strong

[Zombo]

10/20/30 seems fine

maybe 50 for elite German once upgraded to Infiltration

BEF should be Elite, all German armies invading Belgium Veteran
the cav in Prussia Veteran