Continuation War 1941 Beta Test

[ColonelY]

Nice campaign event before the next scenario, very immersive!

07Olonets:

I really do like the story related to the mine and these prototype(s) missions...

So, let's get to work:

-> As usual commander or +50RP if...

-> Probably be a good idea to add about 4 turns (at least) and an handful of LCP...
Our aux tanks are really good, but many of them have the slow replenish rate, which may become problematic during the armored Soviet counterattack - indeed if our tanks become a little too much depleted, then they are almost useless for quite few turns, while the bulk of our infantry is still probably in the woods dealing with some Soviets in there... And moreover any of those tank units that is destroyed can't be reformed to join the battle again, even if the player manages to save enough RPs.

-> 'Could add another sec obj which would fit well in here and be coherent as well: "Save at least one of our two Landsverk" , those completion may be required as well to receive our future new core unit... Otherwise it may look a little like: "Yeah, that was great! You were right, those engines are damn good... but we've just lost them all during this test. Now, where is the one you promised us?"

[Erik2]

06Terijoki41

Finnish core:
Inf x8, hvy inf x4, eng x4, 37mmAT x2, 105mmArt x2
Blackburn x2, MS406 x1, Buffalo x1, CX x1. Ju88 x1

There should be some notes about minefields in the briefing. The players probably should at deploy a couple of engineer units.

There was a lone 122mm art unit traveling alone north on the east road on turn 2.

There are some Soviet air units that seem to be content to hover around their airfield in the SW until they run out of fuel. The counter says 3 enemy fighters killed, but there were never any air combat.

Th exit units should probably be specified as land units.

There was not enough time to hunt down all Soviet units.
I assume MG nests and bunkers are not counted. Maybe add 2-4 turns.

Medium to hard difficulty, but well balanced scenario.

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[ColonelY]

08Rukajarvi:

A splendid scenario, with an awesome commando mission as I do like them!


So, feedback:

-> As usual, Finn. com. OR +50RP if...

-> Event title: "Air Supp0rt" Well, "o" instead of "0" (zero), of course...

-> Counter issue: For the "destroy the remaining Soviet lake fleet" -> the 4 units we've captured (when succeeding with our commandos) still count as "units left to destroy" => the Soviets sends 6 boats against our 4 and the counter shows 10 left; later, once lake cleared, no Soviet boat left, few depleted Finnish boats left (but less than 4! ), counter showing 4 left! (It reminds me a little of a Pyrrhic victory on this side! )

-> Nice lake battle , with the Soviets starting with an upper hand (in terms of air power and amount of boats)... 'can be (really) costly to replenish our planes -> Therefore, I suggest a slight increase of our income!

-> I think it would be optimal to add 2 turns, maybe up to 4 turns, but not more than 4 anyway!

[Erik2]

07Olonets

The Landsverk vehicles are deployed in AA-mode. I think it is better to use AT-mode, ref the briefing.
Finnish core units:
Hvy inf x6, eng x1, 105mm Art x2,
MS406, Buffalo, Fokker CX, Ju88

The first part of the scenario is medium difficult.
Then the Soviet tanks arrive...
The Finnish rag-tag tanks are no match for the T34s.
The attack needed bolstering of (a lot of) 37mm ATs.
This will probably be evident to the player after failing the first run-through (like me).

I would replace the T34s with tank types comparable to the Finnish ones. Maybe keep a single T34.
The last primary objectives are way too far away. Reduce the requirement to 2-3 objectives. Also add 8-10 turns.

Note that the Shungite Mines were simply ignored as all air support was needed south of the Olonka.

Bru, you must be a mean player to be able to pull this one off I had to nuke my way forward.

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[ColonelY]

07Olonets

The Landsverk vehicles are deployed in AA-mode. I think it is better to use AT-mode, ref the briefing.

[...]

I would replace the T34s with tank types comparable to the Finnish ones. Maybe keep a single T34.
The last primary objectives are way too far away. Reduce the requirement to 2-3 objectives. Also add 8-10 turns.

Note that the Shungite Mines were simply ignored as all air support was needed south of the Olonka.

Good idea, for the Landsverk.

I agree for these tanks, but keep indeed 1 T34...

To keep it (really) challenging, I would vote to reduce only to 3 obj and to add only 8 turns...

Well, I have to admit that I haven't finished these Mines either due to heavy fighting vs Soviet armored counterattack... Which is actually a pity! Well, not the heavy fighting, the fact of being forced to finish by neglecting these Mines!

[ColonelY]

09Litsa:

A nice and challenging scenario.


-> For once, let's begin with a very little detail: In the text for the "Litsa River" event, the second time that "Murmansk" is written, it appears as "Mermansk"...

-> Counter issue: "Do not lose any air unit"... well, we do "only" have aux planes available in a hangar on our airfield (namely 3 bombers and 2 fighters) -> as soon as two bombers have taken off, this objective has been considered as failed!? (With the fighters, no issue. With a single bomber, no issue. With two airborne... )

-> What about our recon(s)?
With "War Economy" for Finland, for SS and for Germany unlocked but not any single recon plane able to do its job... Well, here, we start with this famous "0 LCP" (because aux planes) - we've already seen/solved this recently on Winter War 1940!
So, it means that it is definitely worth to check where on Continuation War 1941 AND on Winter War 1939 there is the same issue , i.e. in all scenarios where it has been put "for this faction, 0 LCP", it kills the effect of the "War Economy" (+1 LCP), so in each of them: would a recon be meaningful or not? In this campaign, for example, we could have German recon as well as Finnish recon planes...
(For a campaign like the "Normandy UK & Canada 1944", where we have the air superiority, it shouldn't be a problem anyway, because I think that there we have always at least a handful of LCP already available and thus not this disabling air effect.)

->In terms of income(s) for this scenario: From what I've seen/encountered, I suggest increasing the German income, increasing a little the Finnish income as well and not changing the SS income...

-> This scenario is challenging, amongst others, turnwise... and to exit 10 units, it's quite a lot considering that there is a single exit area (well, "single" but still with 2 hexes ).
=> What about adding one or maybe even two others exit hex near the road in the center of the map, in the top South? (If they are not really on the same road, I mean towards Murmansk, it may be perfectly coherent if there is some crossroad off-map, in some southern place... )

-> It could be good as well to reduce a little the XP of the nasty T-34s...

[bru888]

Noted about the air recon. I made the mistake of assuming 0 air CPs + War Economy = 1 air CP. Not. War Economy only increments air CP by +1 if there are air CPs in the scenario to begin with.

0 air CPs + War Economy = 0 air CP whereas, for example, 6 air CPs + War Economy = 7 air CP.

I will provide for air recon in CW41 using the same rules of thumb as I did in WW40 as demonstrated here:

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I believe I am done editing WW40, barring any last minute issues with version 0.95 of WW40. So, I will be starting soon with editing CW41 according to the input provided so far by you beta testers.

[Erik2]

08Rukajarvi

Finnish core:
Inf x5, hvy inf x10, eng x4, 37mmAT x6, 105mmArt x6, 40mmAA x2
MS406 x1, Buffalo x1, FokkerCX x3

All air assets were ordered to help the miniscule Finnish navy take on the much larger Soviet one. Unfortuanlet, the Soviets did the same and their 3 fighter units with commanders were more than a match against my 2 fighters with none. It looks like it is near impossible for the Finnish force to beat the combined Soviet naval and air force. Byt turn 15 all Finnishal ships were sunk.

Getting through the first line of Soviet defenses took about 15 turns.
This does not leave much time to get all the way to the bottom of the map for the primary objective (there are still a lot more defenses blocking the way).
Also, several Soviet flanking counter-attacks slowed the Finns down.
I reckon you need to both remove a bunch of Soviet units in the center and probably add at least 10-12 turns.
Nuke...

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[ColonelY]

08Rukajarvi

[...]

All air assets were ordered to help the miniscule Finnish navy take on the much larger Soviet one. Unfortuanlet, the Soviets did the same and their 3 fighter units with commanders were more than a match against my 2 fighters with none. It looks like it is near impossible for the Finnish force to beat the combined Soviet naval and air force. Byt turn 15 all Finnishal ships were sunk.

I think the trick is first to send our little flotilla South only to find out the position of the enemy ships, but then to avoid skirmishing for several turns, if necessary by moving our ships a little north... As long as the Soviets follow the movement, they stay relatively in range anyway!
(As they have the same kind of ships than us, it's easy to check their range of motion and their range of shooting, in order to stay always at least just out of range! )

The trick is to first take as many fighters as possible to ensure air superiority, then replace them with bombers and only then launch our fleet on the attack!

Enemy bombers will do relatively little damage to our fleet, fortunately...

But it's true that it's quite a challenge and that it will be a bit of a Pyrrhic victory anyway... (And costly for our planes to be replenished, indeed! )


Seeing that you have as well the 4 units left in the sec obj "Destroy the remaining Soviet lake fleet", I assume that you've sunk (maybe with the help of some bombers) all the Soviets ships your troops have encountered?

[Erik2]

The Soviet vessels continued to head north after the Finnish navy was gone.
So the enemy ships were relatively easy to sink then.

[bru888]

With Winter War 1940 now off my easel, my attention now shifts back to Continuation War 1941.

Colonel, I believe you have one more to go: 10Karhumaki. Erik: 09Litsa and 10Karhumaki. Gabe, if you are reading this, time and tide wait for no man!

It is interesting to note that in some cases, Mister Softee (me) has made some of these scenarios too hard!

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[bru888]

Five principles I am following while editing CW41:

1) Check the primary objective allowing for full amount of turns. Create/update "Early scenario ending" trigger accordingly.
2) Create module to replace commander bonus with 50 RPs if the commander is already unlocked.
3) Check for locations of airfields. If closer to the action is not feasible, use off-map air supply for the player. Make sure the AI's airfield is not too remote and is protected by bunkers, foxholes, and AA guns.
4) Air and artillery tasks will always be with 99 aggression.
5) Simple is better as long as: a) it gets the job done, and b) creativity is not overly curtailed.

[Erik2]

I would like to have off-map air exit/entries available even when there is an on-map airfield present.
It gives the player the option to exchange say a bomber with a fighter.

[Erik2]

09Litsa

Being briefed by Erwin is a bit odd. He should be in a much warmer climate at this time.

The LW call is cut short. I was expecting a 2nd message.
Then I 'lost' 2 air units the next turn. And there were no battle casualties...
Sure would like to have seen that missing message.

Another great and difficult scenario from Mr Softie.

Capturing the 4 primary objectives went more or less according to plan. There was just enough time left to exit the 10 units.
But...the counter seems to be slightly off (?).
I manually counted 12 units while the counter displayed 10.
I added 2 turns overtime to make sure 10 units were counted.
Maybe add one exit location and 2-3 turns.

Finally a victory

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[bru888]

01Salla

- in the briefing, "Only advance elements of [...]" now reads as :"Only preliminary elements of [...]" (I would have used "advanced" but I had already used "advancing" in the first sentence.)

- changed the secondary objective to "Do not lose more than 2 Waffen SS units."

- built "Or 50 resource points will be awarded if this commander is already unlocked" modules for all three secondary objectives.

- created an "Early scenario ending" trigger.

- I see the issue with Panzer Abteilung 40. I went with what Wikipedia said: "The unit consisted mostly of Panzer I and Panzer II tanks." Looking at units.csv, I see that it considers Panzer I tanks to have been obsolete by 7/6/1937! On the date of Salla, only the PzKW II F tank is available. Moreover, there are a Panzer III, a Panzer IV, and a Stug III models available! Who knows whether Wikipedia is right (it did say "mostly") or units.csv? Rather than rock the tank, I mean, boat, I went with the flow; that is, units.csv rules. So the "Panzer Abteilung 40" message has been moved to Scenario Start (demoting poor GenLt. Hans Feige to Turn 1 - and he comes after the Rovaniemi to Kandalaksha map!). The message now says "Panzer Abteilung 40 is the name of a tank battalion created for the German invasion of Norway and Denmark. It is now attached to XXXVI Corps to assist in conducting Operation Arctic Fox. The unit consists mostly of Panzer II tanks but more advanced models are available. For this battle, the composition of Panzer Abteilung 40 is up to you."

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- provided for a Finnish aerial reconnaissance plane when Finnish land forces appear:

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[bru888]

Regarding something you brought up in your 01Salla comments, Colonel: "5. I've started with largely enough specs pts (importing a Finnish core army), but the "Drop Tank" and "Scrambling" specs are still blocked for Finland?", I was incorrect in my earlier response of "those are based on availability dates coming due during the year, I believe." Scrambling is available in May 1940 and Drop Tank in July 1940 and this is 1941.

So when you said "Okay, I've unlocked them before the third scenario, so there is no real issue here!", there is an issue but perhaps it's just a misconception.

The reason why you cannot purchase the "Drop Tank" and "Scrambling" specs before the first scenario is that you don't have enough specialisation points yet:

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At this juncture, the sentence "This specialisation is not yet available" seems to apply to both insufficient points and the date not sufficiently advanced yet. In this case, it's insufficient points. When 4 more points are added after the first scenario, to the 5 points that you started with, then Drop Tank becomes available but not Scrambling, yet.

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I think your misconception might be that when you import core units, you import a portion of their experience (as set by the designer), you import unlocked commanders, AND you import specialisation points left over from the previous campaign. I don't think that part about specialisation points is so. There is no provision for importing specialisation points in the campaign editor:

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Perhaps Erik can comment further and confirm what I am saying, but I don't think this is a campaign or scenario issue.

[ColonelY]

That's just the case. I've had directly many of those spec points by importing a core army. (Don't know why or even how!)

So I could directly have unlocked those two specs (enough points), but wasn't actually able to do it... that's why I was perplexed, that's why I made that comment... But soon after, as written, it was working as usual, so I can live with that anyway.

[Erik2]

I believe Bru is correct about the campaign carry-overs.

[ColonelY]

So, just for you, I've made some little tests:

As it is now on my computer. If I start this campaign...

1.WITHOUT importing any core force: 5 spec pts for Finland, 10 for Germany and 5 for SS... (If I remember correctly, due to the rookie aspect, theses pts for Germany and SS could be removed in later versions of this campaign!)
2. WITH importing my previous core WW40: 32 spec pts for Finland (!), 0 for Germany (!) and 0 for SS (!)...

In case 2, the 3 other specs are "in red" (as if the point 1 was somehow "remembered"), so I can't unlock them despite these 32 pts!!!
(3 other specs = Drop Tank, Scrambling & Female Factory Labor)

As if the point 1 was somehow "remembered"?! Well, if it's correct, then this may be why later it works as usual... like these new numbers are (finally) considered, like these totals have actually been updated.


A little weird, but not a top priority anyway, so... Well, I can live with that for it doesn't really matter actually.

[ColonelY]

Import core army => It could be that these "old" spec pts are "always" imported as well, together with all the previously unlocked specs... but then, in principle, precisely, most of these points are used progressively, which is not possible for Finland (only a handful of specializations available!), which means that there is "normally" never such an accumulation (32 pts!) and therefore that it is less obvious!?

Maybe...

But again, finally this doesn't really matter anyway.