How and why so many AAR's

[goose_2]

I did Syracuse and took into account a lot of the advice that you all passed on to me. I was able to save 19 Italian units which are now able to deploy in the next mission as free units, I am assuming they do not count against my soft cap. Let me know if I am wrong in this assumption.

So it appears I will have these units at least for the next few missions. (No spoilers on how long, but...) Should I:

1) Upgrade any of them? If so which ones?
a) Upgrading 2 L3/35's which are essentially fodder to P/26/40's would be 356 a piece.
b) My one M15/42 would be 123.
c) I am not going to upgrade inf to Bersaglieri, but it would be 61. Thoughts?
d) I am seriously thinking of upgrading the anemic L40's to M41M's they are beasts and would only cost 127 which seems like a real bargain especially if I could keep them for later rounds. Thoughts?
e) I have 4 arty's that are fine as is.
f) I have 2 AA's which I am very proud to have acquired as I craftily bought trucks for one to be able to exit it off the map. (Yeah I am that guy) They should be adequate as is, but could upgrade them to the Italian 88 which was quite nice in Africa Korps. For 164, thoughts?

2) What should I do about that 12.8cm AA I was awarded? I was thinking of down grading it to an 88 so I can use it in that sweet dual role. Did you?


I have only 1 SE Tiger and 1936 in prestige which was after replacements from Syracuse to spend.

I like the idea of my SE Pz4G that has a +3 Defensive with a total of 2 heroes into a Panther, but I used to buy solely SE Tiger's but my good friend Night Phoenix has really turned me on to the idea of unit diversity.

Thoughts are always appreciated.
Thanks!

[NightPhoenix]

Don't you get these Italian troops for 2 missions? * Yes spoilers * =P I would say it wasn't worth it. I also think you need the experience and prestige on your core forces. Dieppe was harsh for me because 3/4 infantry and artillery i used were greens. You must be having a similar problem. (maybe?) I would suggest mostly using your own forces to raise experience and not use the Italians much. Also you don't have that much prestige. Do you really want to spend 1/3 or even more on units that will be gone for sure after such a short period?
If getting the 12.8 to a 8.8 doesn't cost you anything i would go for it. Allied armor must mostly not be as great as Soviet armor, so i would think the 88's are more valuable there, as their AT-role is useful for a much longer time. Also i think the diversity is great, Panthers have a movement of 6. This means they can do some things the Tigers can't do, even if they have less armor/attack.(reach bridges, attack units further away etc.)

I'm looking forward to see how you will do in 1945 West really, I'm interested to see whether you can take the a-historical route on Guderian and the bring great success to operation Wacht am Rein as it was supposed to have. It will be as they say....sieg oder tod.

Cheers,

[hurly]

Hehe the Night Phoenix dropped the Spoiler already so I am not the one to get the blame, but still can sort of relate to the leaked info a bit.

First thing I have to say 19 Italian Units (of 28) and all 4 Artys saved + 2 AA is an exceptional result

I just assume its 18 Ground Units and the Centauro so lets go from there

And no Sir investing any kind of prestige into Italian Armor upgrades is just a waste of resources, I would consider in action replacements to keep a unit alive though.

The purpose of Italian Units is just supplemental in this one at best, maybe the Arty can have some combat value and the Tanks + the Centauro maybe even the AA can fire some rounds and hold a hex for a few rounds, but their main purpose is to get voted of the Island before the Scenario ends. So especially keep the slow ones in Range of the Exit points and exit them when you feel they have served some garbage shots or took a flag here and there when you don't want to waste a move of the German Units. The Arty may have the biggest combat value for their lifespan.

But don't waste any unnecessary money upgrading or even replacing units in a scenario. If someone is wounded make sure he can escape and in the end it doesn't matter too much if its one of cheap or more expensive Units. Just keep them alive and exit them in time.

As long as you have 14 ground Units with you you are fine and you don't have to move out any German units when you get the order for the Exodus to Italy (This is no real spoiler --- but there will be a time when get the order to evacuate 18 Ground Units to the Italian Mainland and cause 4 are already setup there, you need 14 GROUND Units (the Centauro is NOT a Ground Unit !) to finish the scenario without having to retreat any German Unit from the Frontlines as you still have to hold a certain amount of Victory Hexes

While this passage reads a bit like a spoiler, ---it is not ---- the Briefing in said Scenario is a bit wishy washy vague and there is even a thread about said scenario in the forum, so you can see there is some need to clarify this.

So you have a nice margin of error of 4 for even losing a few Italian Units til the Italian Saga ends and when you do it right a nice reward is coming your way.

So what enough about the Italian Stuff here, basically all is said about them

so back to question 2 regarding the German Upgrade or Downgrade Options.

88 or 128 may not make a lot of a difference in AA capabilities right now, so yeah maybe the Dual Role can help til the Italian Dust clears the realm, but won't be a Game Changer as I don't think it will get many shots away in AT mode anyway for some time. But it can be worth stopping a tank rush in the closing seconds of a fight. I did not change it on my "Test" Guderian Run and it worked out so what can I say. Neither option should be killer of success

Now to the Tank Options

I have 1 SE Tiger going into the final 42/43 scenario so while having as many Tigers as possible is certainly nice to have, but I sold my soul to a green 30cm Nebelwerfer which has done well so far. I really like to have a pack of 3 of them bunched together at some point as they butcher any Infantry then and even Tanks have a hard time when they attack one them backed up by 2 others. Pretty self serving Power Pack that is slow on the basic move and short on ammo all the time but cleans out any city hex with aplomb.

Panthers are a bonafide Alternate to Tigers and certainly more mobile. Problem for me, they come later than the Tiger at basically the same Price and in the East I somehow could never really make them work like the Tigers. But that is probably just my personal incompetence in this game. Some Units effectiveness eludes me somehow and that never changes a lot. So I have some personal bias against using some Units and the Panther is definitely one of them.
If the Reason to buy one is just he 6 hex mobility I'm not sure the Money to pony up for the Panther is worth it as you have a few T34 with the same speed with you all along. I have to add I'm not very good with the T34 as well, I prefer the KV1 with its big Ammo Count on board, but at least the T34 is there already and its not 600+ Bucks just to enjoy that one extra Hex each Move. Disclaimer Of course the T34 is not in the same class as a Panther as a Fighter, but its a great and mobile hex mover for sure. That said I go with the KV1 and Panzer IV plus the occasional Tiger when I can afford it

I have lost track on your current Army setup a bit and it would be nice to get an update incl. Heroes and Stars maybe Overstrength here, but I would tend to opt for some heavy Arty (30cm Nebelwerfer) and one or 2 from the Stug to Brummbär Arty Family if possible. But again that's me and my play style differs from yours and I have "well" so lala experience with the West Campaign. There might be others with way better advice than I can offer especially in the Time Challenged Guderian Campaign which is throwing me off sometimes and which is quite easy to master on others.
But I always sense there might be the Big Roadblock somewhere in my Path cause I have made some wrong plans early on. I just can say hey it worked on Colonel Difficulty so why not on Guderian ? Obvious answer, cause I built a core that is way too slow or way to one-dimensional to go all the Way

[huckc]

That's some pretty solid advice.

The Italian ground troops count for the evacuation DV on Messina so I disbanded them all for prestige while keeping a few to help with the evacuation count.

The reward for this DV is huge.