Rudankort, I'll try to be brief.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my rant. I really appreciate it, and I know your time is probably more precious than mine - even though I'm a programmer too.
Rudankort wrote:Right now all changes in the equipment file are done manually. I could ask Kresimir, the guy who maintains the file, to update version column every time he changes something there, but it is clearly error prone. There is no way we can guarantee that he never forgets to update that column. So, the only way to make this column 100% correct and actual is to create a tool which would compare previous and next version of equipment file, and update this column automatically. I could do this, but I suspect that by using WinMerge or similar software you can eliminate the need for that additional column altogether. It will just show you all lines which have changed, and what exactly changed in them, without the need for any artificial indicators.
I agree such something like WinMerge should do the trick, but I also haven't come up with this idea as I never saw a need for it - but others did.
I have to say, the way you describe your changes (essentially: we don't have any clue what we changed between any two versions ourselves) doesn't sound professional at all, but if that's how it is, well, then that's how it is.
rezaf wrote:These are good points, but it was partially addressed in the thread I linked to. VPaulus linked to it again, for good measure. Still, appearently you didn't have a chance to click on either link yet.
Rudankort wrote:I clicked it, but did not read the whole thing.
Well, maybe you should. But it's your choice.
Rudankort wrote:This would help, but probably it is not the most important problem. There is at least one subset of mods - custom campaigns - which work exactly like this. And it is perfectly possible to create "one-click" solution - i. e. installer - for them. Did this possibility help custom campaigns, compared to other mods? I'm not sure.
Unless I'm mistaken, this only works for the most basic of scenarios, and even then, doesn't a user still have to do the task of manually copying the scenario into the appropriate folder? I was thinking more of a custom filetype that's registered in windows, and when you double-click it, everything neccessary to make it run is automatically done without user interaction, the game starts and loads up the mod or scenario instantly. Really, very similar to GME, only simpler and PzC specific.
Rudankort wrote:I thought about using the launcher window for this purpose as well, yes.
Hopefully people use the launcher, then (I don't).
Rudankort wrote:Before we plunge deeper into this, let us make a list of quality mods we already have. This would really help us to think about future steps. Just, how many of them are there? If there are 10 quality mods appearing every month, thinking about a dedicated person(s) to test them is justified. If there is 1 quality mod in half a year - probably not.
But that's the whole point, increasing the awareness of the mods and hopefully getting some folks into this part of the game. A "dedicated person" can have nothing to test for a while, no work (and no $5 voucher) for him in that case. Where's the problem?
That said, I can definately see your point and it cannot be denied. There are reasons some of which could possibly be addressed, but yes, you definately have a point.
Rudankort wrote:It is a fair point, but we have seen game communities solving such problems in the past. I think, PG2 community is a good example.
Unless I'm mistaken, though, the PG2 community only really took off long after the game was off the shelves and most people essentially got the game for free (by SOME means, ahem - don't look at me like this, I've got a boxed copy) or for very cheap on eBay or similar sources (nope, mine was shrinkwrapped, from a store).
Rudankort wrote:Well, I must admit that I do not excel in the role of forum communicator. But I can't afford half-year creativity breaks, at least not yet.
That's why I wrote it was communicated that way. Whatever happened is none of my business, but I have to "believe" in what I'm told by the officials here.
Fact is, you disappeared in a puff of smoke.
Rudankort wrote:As for the rest... Big problem with existing modding community is fragmentation. Not only it is small, but also every modder has his own idea about what must be added to the game in order to support his own, personal best and greatest ideas. You say that the changes you personally want to have are small, and it is true, but the same can be said about many other features being requested.
That's true, but for a long time, nothing substantial was done at all. You kinda act like a deflector shield, everything someone throws at you is worth considering, but since everyone appears to want something else, you do nothing, arguing that another person MIGHT want something else entirely, and he get's nothing either, so everone is off just as well, right? Even if it sounded that way, I don't request that you fulfull my personal feature ideas by the book. If you end up implementing something else instead, well, that's how it is, but until now, you ended up implementing almost nothing in this area, be it my pet-wish or someone elses.
Rudankort wrote:At the same time, there is a whole lot you can do with the existing engine. I think, Grand Campaign is the best proof of this. Many people agree that it pushed the limits of the game a lot - don't tell me that GC, if it came out as a user mod, could not be considered "outstanding" as you put it. But there is nothing there which you guys cannot do as well - all the features are available in the Editor for you to use. And note that GC did not even use custom graphics and custom eqp file. If you change these too, you can do a lot more, and I think that some mods (like DMP's) demonstrate that.
Sure, the GCs are very solid craftmanship, but little more. The scenario designers did their best to overcome the inherent weaknesses of the PzC engine and do better than the vanilla campaign, and they succeeded (as far as I can tell, I've only played 39-40 and 41). I applaud their efforts. But spectacular the DLCs are not.
More of the same, both for better or worse.
Rudankort wrote:And if we are ranting here, let me rant a little bit as well and say that the fundamental principle of modding is that you take an existing product and tweak it. It works like this: a modder looks at the available options and thinks how to use them best, in order to create something special. Not the other way around: the modder comes up with a completely arbitrary concept and then goes to developer and demands to provide a product which can accomodate this concept. Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that the game should not become more modder friendly in the future, and it will. But to say that you did not create outstanding mods because of developers, or "public", or anybody else for that matter, is fundamentally flawed. Those who want to create outstanding mods - create them. Others seek excuses.
Well, true, you can take that stance.
I was merely trying to say, the more modding options a game offers, the more out-of-the-box modders can go, the better.
Take a look at Civ4, for which even the source code was partially released - awesome mods were the result. The modding community is vibrant, even to this day, when the sequel has been out for a long time.
True modding (as opposed to creating scenarios, which is something else entirely), is hardly possible in PzC. Stuff can be done within a tight corridor, but not too much.
In dreamland, I'd request a scripting engine. But we gotta stay reasonable, maybe one day you'll make PzC2, and then you can consider that (but still maybe decide against it).
For now, is stuff like the examples I listed so outrageous? You da boss, pick something else if you think st7uff like making a tag that allows any unit to move like a scout is silly. Fine, add something someone else requested.
Or, if you must, make what you wrote above the law and say: I won't add ANY of those things. Out of the question.
That's at least a solid position. Too often have I read "we'll consider this in the future" and not ever heard back.
For example, even existing things you clearly intended to be moddable, like the terrain types and movement modes, cannot be properly modded right now.
At some point you said you were going to fix it, but that was before your absence iirc.
Don't say it, I know,I know, a fix will be considered in the future.
Rudankort wrote:PS. Please do not take my comments personally, they were made in general. I'm not in the right position to judge individual modders, their work, their ideas and their requests.
Why should I? This is very insightful (and appreciated) input from the creator of the game that I hope a few others will find interesting as well.
I might sound that way, but I don't turn into a drama queen when my wishes are not fulfilled. I never tried to bombard you with PMs about my personal wishes, or did I? I didn't bother to post about my discouragement back when it was STRONG, either.
Instead I refocused and made something that I could do then and there, and as I wanted to - the end result of these efforts is Dwight's Camo Sprayshop, as humble a tool as it may be.
Thanks again for taking the time.
Edit: I failed miserably at trying to be brief. Achievement NOT unlocked.
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rezaf
