"Another one" - Plaid vs Morris

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:50 pm

But with the RAF almost wiped out and with enough time to execute Sea lion (England is almost empty of infantry units)I would take the chance. Knocking British islands out of the war means no worries about strategic bombings for a long period of time and although the allies will return sooner or later to the islands, it is really a pain for the british to see reduced his PP´s income drastically. If we add to this a "closing the mediterranean sea" strategy rejecting french armistice and this way gaining Spain as another axis ally, the british would be really in trouble.

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:34 pm

His strategy is very simple, crush a weak Germany with the Russian Bear.

He does this by committing everything to France to buy a delayed or weak Barbarossa. He doesn't care about England or the Med, he is just trying to bleed the Axis before he starts in with Russia. Once the Axis is totally committed to stopping Russia in the East, the US arrives in Normandy - doesn't need the Brits for this strategy.

I did Sealion against him whilst still fighting in France, it was quite easy. Its how you deal with Russia thats the issue. Back then I held Britain and had crushed the 8th Army - but before we had unit limits he just built dozens of Mech's and swamped the Germans. Novel and impossible to stop if you havent seen it before and prepared for it.

This time I expect you will see maximum MECH and ARM with a lot of air cover.

Crazygunner1 · Post by **Crazygunner1** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:36 pm

rkr1958 wrote:
_Augustus_ wrote:C'mon now. No reason to get overexcited and take eye off the ball. The beast is in the east...

_augustus_
This sums up my take on Morris' strategy. He seems he is trading Britain's sacrifice for a weaker and / or later Barbarossa. In fact I would bet the he's hoping that you go for Sea Lion or Close the Med. My take is that he plans to win this with Russia and bring in the USA when you've been weaken by the Russian.

Right now the UK has been weaken and is not a threat. One way to exploit this is to build up for an execute an early spring 1941 invasion of Russia.

I am gonna have to agree on this, i have tried this strategy as allies myself, if the outcome is good enough in the french campaign the axis time table gets wrecked and loose momentum.

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:12 am

richardsd wrote: I did Sealion against him whilst still fighting in France, it was quite easy. Its how you deal with Russia thats the issue. Back then I held Britain and had crushed the 8th Army - but before we had unit limits he just built dozens of Mech's and swamped the Germans. Novel and impossible to stop if you havent seen it before and prepared for it.

No way now to build dozens of russian mechs with the build per type of unit limits: it would be too expensive for the soviets. On the other hand, a lot of players have reported a successful 100% german defensive campaign in Poland-Hungary-Romania (using river and mountains as main defensive factors) keeping in mind that germans units are able to have superior tech levels than the soviets for all the game if their lab strategy is the correct one. So no need to launch Barbarossa: you simply wait for the soviets in Poland with thousands of rested, high tech level german units and good quality commanders at range. Believe me: this is hard to breach.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:15 am

I recognize this strategy! It was popular in GS 1.0 - sacrifise british troops for scoring kills on wehrmacht in 1940 and delaying fall of France. Sad if it still works, as many things were done to make it unattractive.
I believe Morris don't even bother purchasing labs for UK (or purchase very few), focusing on leaders as alternative to increase unit's stats.

This fact mean two main things for us. First - he may still have some PP despite this brutal fighting and field crowd of poorly organised infantry (and garrisons) with massive leader support for defence of isles, which will delay us till winter, and winter will mean slower progress and more UK "speed bumps" drafted and blooded.
Second - UK have NO late game potential with no labs built and german troops (and valueable for other operations time) lost when fighting britts in GB/NA will be lost almost for nothing.

PP income from UK conquest will be easily beaten by the fact that I will need to garrison every single british city and deploy some anti-invasion fighting force. And the fact that loss of islands will weak UK itself will mean little or no, since they already can't be weaken.

To make a long story short I will not play Morri's game and do what he wants me to do.

Now more sad news from the front as another panzerkorps destroyed. It was little careless to send this panzer like I did, but after I lost 1st one I thought that nothing worse can't happen already, you probably know the feeling. Now I will have to build at least 3 of them prior to barbarossa to achieve some goals in border area. No problem yet, as Reich have PPs for it.

As a revenge most of allied army ended its existance Paris is likely to fall next turn.

2nd general lab (industry) built for Germany and more airpower repaired. I guess in this particular game I will need to build 3rd industry lab (which I rare-to-never do) to get PPs to replace casualties (I don't think Morris will play less agressive later) and to get flak and organisation as good side effect.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:03 am

French campaign finally closed, as Paris falls. Now its time to prepare Northern campaign, as its easy PPs and free corps at our service.

Troops gathered near Hamburg will spend next turn resting and repairing, and then will invade Norway and Denmark.

Subs sunk 11 more PPs in convoy, which mean 58 total. But I dont think there is reason to wage full scale sub war in this game, since UK will be crippled and spend PPs on weak units.

What I want to sink is USSR convoys, and probably USA ones.

Its sad that we lost tanks, but (in older versions) if you play carefully against huge BEF you can easily stuck till winter and close French campaign in spring 1941, which can be considered complete disaster.

zechi · Post by **zechi** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:05 am

As you destroyed many Allied units in France you could reject the French Armistice and go for North Africa to get Spain on the Axis side. I think Morris will have a hard time to do anything in North Africa as he lost many British units. The mopping up in France should be easy with nearly everything destroyed. However, you should get the French 1 step FTR.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:07 am

zechi wrote:As you destroyed many Allied units in France you could reject the French Armistice and go for North Africa to get Spain on the Axis side. I think Morris will have a hard time to do anything in North Africa as he lost many British units. The mopping up in France should be easy with nearly everything destroyed. However, you should get the French 1 step FTR.

But I already accepted armistice. To activate Spain now means to capture Port Said aswell as Vichy africa.

With this sort of casualties during fall of France i can't afford this campaign.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:05 pm

Plaid if you post the causalities at the fall of France I'll include them in the latest stats.

By the way, one thing to consider about building a good size German sub forces is that you could use that force in combination with the German surface fleet to draw out and destroy or cripple the RN. By controlling the Atlantic you would be able to stop the Murmansk convoy cold, force the UK and USA to use their early PP's for building DDs and SAC bomber (and not air or land units to attack you in France). This coupled with a few German fighters, a strong Italian defense of Sicily should contain the Western Allies and keep them out of Europe for the game. Of course, you would need to properly garrison France and Italy with garrisons and infantry corps. With the Western Allies contained you could then put your full attention on first crippling then later containing Russia too.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:49 pm

I will post casualties next turn, since there is no action so far.

There were RAF units in west coast french ports, so my infantry now march to take this objects.

Preparation for Invasion of Norway and Denmark complete. Next turn we send transports, and in 2 turns we DoW both countries.

I believe 1 infantry is more then enough to secure Oslo with this huge air support.

Subs are somewhere in the channel now and will be ready to block Bergen in time.

9th armour lab built for germans and 2nd infantry - for Italy. I also switched italian infantry focus for fixed defences, to gain some needed quality.

Rough plan for Barbarossa build up include building 3 more armour, recruiting couple of leaders. Rest should be infantry units.
During 1941 summer - winter build of additional mech/tanks availiable.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:53 pm

Here are casualties as promised :

(polish campaigh = 13 corps steps, 1 armour, 2 mech, 1 FTR )

Transports are at sea and we are ready to invade next turn.

RN supposed to be in rather poor shape (like this 2 step CV), but still can interfere. Thats why all luftwaffe stacked here.

PPs are still going to repairs and upgrades (I got close air support recently, which will be good vs ships).

Crazygunner1 · Post by **Crazygunner1** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:03 pm

If RN intercepts here the entire fleet will be sunk.....ha ha ha should be fun if he takes the bate.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:22 am

Mmm i hope i will fare better in my game.

SPring has not arrived yet...

The way i look at this, but not pushing England harder, Moriss also win in a sense. You can expect allied foces in 1942 in France.

As for my game, i will take a different approach i think.

Moriss uses all his troops in order to make France a fortress. I noticed that the whole of North africa is out in France, since i can recognize the troops names. Also my gut feeling is that other places in the Uk are left totally undefended.

Its navy is depleted and i should be able to do something rapidly against the Brits.

The main thing against Moriss strategy i believe is to be super-agressive and attack all over the map, especially where he isnt because he is concentrating in France... Heck even the canadians are in France!

We'll see how i do compared to your game my friend.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:42 am

He needs to have 10 British units in England or Canada to avoid morale loss. How much morale loss does he get? Then you will know how many units he has in England.

I wonder how Morris' strategy will work out. He loses a lot of British production and might have problems with labs and getting on the offensive later. Maybe his strategy is to put all on Russia and do what he can to delay the Germans. The US are also intact and can buy labs etc. It's possible the strategy works.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:09 am

Stauffenberg wrote:He needs to have 10 British units in England or Canada to avoid morale loss. How much morale loss does he get? Then you will know how many units he has in England.

I wonder how Morris' strategy will work out. He loses a lot of British production and might have problems with labs and getting on the offensive later. Maybe his strategy is to put all on Russia and do what he can to delay the Germans. The US are also intact and can buy labs etc. It's possible the strategy works.

Oh i am sure it most definitly works...

HE gets a 5 moral loss. So this means he has 5 units in England? That would sum up pretty much my estimates

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:58 am

No. You lose 5 morale for each unit below the 10 requirement. So it means he still has 9 units left in England. Maybe he has built some more garrisons to compensate. That means even less PP's for labs, air and naval units.

TotalerKrieg · Post by **TotalerKrieg** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:29 am

Hmmm. This is really interesting AAR! I wonder if the best play would not have been to take England up to Liverpool such that you take the most valuable cities, don't have to garrison a ton of cities, prevent Morris from placing more units there, and deprive him of air bases by which to pound France. I believe the convoys would still go to the British isles under this scenario so you could with a strong sub presence interdict all convoys to the SU and British isles. He could land air units via the Northern route but it would take him awhile to push through a fleet with ground units. This should at the very least delay his appearance in France. I accept this would mean a later invasion of the SU which may mean doom in GS 2.1 as suggested by others but as long as you build tons of infantry supported by some armor and fighters I have to believe you have a chance on the eastern front. If you don't, I think there is something wrong with the game balance. Of course, it would be key not to panic and let him get you to make mistakes. In any event, thanks for posting your turns. I wish you luck in battle!

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:54 am

Norway and Denmark invaded, as planned.

British transports spotted and attacked near Bergen, but they still will land next turn.

PPs were spent to repair my german units. Also 2 units of garrison infantry purchased for occupation duties in France.

Italy got their 1st naval (sub) lab.

Based on NA supply indicator (and empty Malta port) all RN gone to atlantic area from MED.

This huge force of warships will be major trouble, if we attempt any sort of Sealion.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:03 pm

Look at the CV in Newcastle. It's still at 2-steps. This implies to me that the UK is strapped for PP's or he's using them to build or repair something else.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:33 pm

Oslo captured and Norway surrenders, but 5 step british GAR landed in Bergen and now it have to be defeated. Probably its not good, that I sent only 1 corps.

This time Yugoslavia was DoWed (I do it usually just after 2rd Vienna award event to get maximum PP and oil from Romania and Hungary).

Troops start to gather to attack Belgrade.

British forces in NA are about to cross Lybian border.