AAR: Operation Barbarossa-Fortress Europa(no Massina please)

[supermax]

This forum is a bit tricky...some reason my whole post got to be a qoute....ha ha

hahaha

[supermax]

The Spanish offensive was almost drawn to a successeful conclusion last turn, but with Massina having screened the capital, it was not possible to take the city. In any case next turn will certainly be the turn, the capital is almost un-entrenched and i will be able to attack from 4 sides.

On the naval side of things i got another sub severely damaged, it limped back to France for much-needed repairs. The rest of the fleet is intact, however.



In the Med i am planning an operation in Greece in order to be able to use Crete as an airfield to dominate the central MED and chase the british away from there. I intend to station 2 TAC there on a mostly permanent basis , once Greece is dealt with. I will do so via a naval amphibious assaultm with the help of 2 german tacs. So so far nothing fancy hey? :)So the first transport was trying to go around Crete to get to the east coast of Greece when it ran right into a brit CV!!! The regina marina then decided to intervene. Assets were also moved to Sicily in orer to take care of Malta.

Other than that another TAC has been produced this turn (TAC #6). I will start producing tanks and MECH after that right up till Barbarossa to kick the Russians in the nuts in the spring-summer 1941.

[Crazygunner1]

Hi Max

The way things are looking, your gonna have to spend some time in Spain to clean out allied troops. If i were Massina, i would probably send as many GAR i could spare, even from africa to occupy ports of spain. I also remember when i did spain invasion against JJ denver there was some trouble in the straits of Gibraltar, i think he planted a forces on the african side, i could never get rid of them without major effort untill the end of the war. But he could use it as an airbase for future operations or landings in Spain.

Also i have a question and would like your opinion. I am playing a game against massina now in a defferent AAr, perhaps you could look in if you got time. I have turn the tide somewhat in the Med and start pushing the Axis forces out of africa and back to the italian mainland. My question is this, obvious would be to knock out italy, but does that gain me much? I mean Germany looses it´s allied but they get a boost in economy themselfs when italy has fallen. Also the italian terrain is so slow moving even if you land behind Rome and the Gustav Line there isn´t much t gain. It´s not like i can break out and attack Germany from the south across the Alps. I can ofcourse go for vichy but i can do that without knocking out italy. I don´t know, it seems that taking out italy is good in the long run, making germanys manpower suffer, but in short run germany gets a boost to build better organised and technological troops.

Sorry to post it here, but like i said you can answer in my AAr if you want. Thanks in advance....

Crazy

[supermax]

Well, here goes nothing. We will see if i get this damned Middle East this time.




The whole point here being that Egypt is still not in the war and that i can do what i want without them moving troops around... So this should be interesting, since the RN is nowhere strong enough to stop me.

[joerock22]

Ah, so this is what you've been planning. A very clever strategy, invading Egypt before your opponent can move his units. You always seem to come up with innovative strategies. I am very curious to see how this works out for you!

[Crazygunner1]

Wow...very interesting, so Greece was just a diversion i guess? Like you said he can´t move his troops, not even use the ports in egypt right?

What he could do is keep the CV south of Suezcanal just to bombard from the other side, will be hard to get him out of there unless he wants.

Crazyg

[Crazygunner1]

It´s always fun to see how you always seem to ignore the seatransport/seaborne invasion penalty. ha ha ha

[Rhialto]

Max wrote: "..thus impeding him to reinforce the by now future hopeless sitaution in Egypt..."

statements like this (apart from the innovative strategies) are why I like reading Super's AARs.....

[schwerpunkt]

Max,
Great minds think alike! In my current game against Ronnie, I had a 4-5 turn period in which I couldnt move any units and Italy was active. Scared the bejezus out of me because I'd moved the two GARs in Egypt to France so the ports were open to invasion! I had fortunately taken the precaution of renaming them so Ronnie didnt know what I done but I think british players need to be wary of this inactive period. Alternatively in v2.00 we may have to consider limiting the inactive period to just a couple of turns.....

[zechi]

Interesting move, if you get the Suez Channel quickly, the Med is yours. However, should he defend it succesfully for a few turns, the RN could move via the Red Sea and then enter the Med via the channel. The resulting naval battle will thenn be interesting to watch (especially if you get Gibraltar and can bring in the Kriegsmarine.

Do not forget that a BB is also waiting in the Persian Gulf which could quickly be brought to the Med. Furthermore, if Massina played cleverly, he retreated the CV to one of the British ports in the Med. From there he can bombard the invasion force relatively unmolested, until you get the city.

Cheers Zechi

[rkr1958]

Apologies for not showing more of the real screen capture lets just say that i want to keep the surprise to everyone.

Last time you did that, you invaded the Americas. I wonder what you have planned this time...

My bet is on "Close the Med". Vichy France is still neutral, which means Syria's still neutral. I wonder if Max is planning to invade Syria and Cyprus in order to outflank the Brits in Egypt?

I posted this a week ago. While I didn't have the details 100% correct I did nail the strategy.

Also, I think that this AAR should be a cautionary tale for allied players on the risks of pulling UK garrisons out of Egypt for the defense of France in 1940.

And as always Max shows his strategic genuis in coming up with another brillant strategy. It's fun watching him and the other GS elites at work even when you're on the business end of their strategies.

[Plaid]

Supermax is so Supermax. I never even think about transport cap overuse to -6, this sort of thing simple dont exist in my mind...Bu he does it!

[ncali]

Also, I think that this AAR should be a cautionary tale for allied players on the risks of pulling UK garrisons out of Egypt for the defense of France in 1940.

But that didn't happen in this game, right? I think you are thinking of a different AAR. in this one, the British sent no reinforcements to France.

[trulster]

Looks like the Med and the Mid East is Axis. In that context I suppose the -6 cost (how much in PPs?) for overtransport to the poor Italian economy is worth it!

[rkr1958]

Also, I think that this AAR should be a cautionary tale for allied players on the risks of pulling UK garrisons out of Egypt for the defense of France in 1940.

But that didn't happen in this game, right? I think you are thinking of a different AAR. in this one, the British sent no reinforcements to France.

I'm sure I am. I'm having trouble keeping the details of my games straight.

So the UK will have garrisons in those ports and when Max invades, Egypt activiates. Though I don't suspect Max will have trouble taking the ports.

[gchristie]

Alternatively in v2.00 we may have to consider limiting the inactive period to just a couple of turns.....

I should hope so. In this instance Germany and the UK are already at war, so it seems odd that the Axis can have total initiative against the UK units in the med, in effect treating those British units as if they belonged to a country Germany had yet to declare war upon.

Perhaps there is a rationale here that escapes me, but it seems like adjusting this is in order, especially since more Axis players will take advantage of this strategy if it is as successful as it appears it will be.

All glory to Max for figuring out yet another brilliant strategy for this game.

I'll bet he never goes to work the same way every day!

[ncali]

I'm interested to see how it plays out. I don't think it's a sure thing if the British have their garrisons, without Axis air support and depending on how much of a presence the RN has and how they intervene. A garrison can usually withstand a couple attacks when in a city. The British army, including the armour, will be able to head to the rescue immediately after any invasion. Still, it's very interesting! Max is definitely not short of bold ideas!

[rkr1958]

Perhaps there is a rationale here that escapes me, but it seems like adjusting this is in order, especially since more Axis players will take advantage of this strategy if it is as successful as it appears it will be.

It was to give the axis player a bit of time to reinforce North Africa. We found that when the Egypt entered at the same time that Italy did that the allied player would rush Libya before the axis player had time to build up.

The main reason I see that Max's strategy is working (or will work) is that he took out France exteremly early and was able to capture Gibralter and move a massive German/Italian invasion force into and to the east Med before Egypt/Iraq entered. I don't see this happening too often. Max is definitely a special case.

[Rhialto]

I'm interested to see how it plays out. I don't think it's a sure thing if the British have their garrisons, without Axis air support and depending on how much of a presence the RN has and how they intervene. A garrison can usually withstand a couple attacks when in a city. The British army, including the armour, will be able to head to the rescue immediately after any invasion. Still, it's very interesting! Max is definitely not short of bold ideas!

The two German Tacs in Spain could get to Egypt quite quickly via Libya. He also has a damaged Strat bomber on the Spanish coast that could be sent to North Africa. Of course this might allow Gibraltar to hold out for longer.

[zechi]

I also do not think that this is a sure thing. Firstly, Supermax weakened the RN in the MED. It is a precondition that the RN is weakened and is not able to bring in reinforcements quickly into the Med. Secondly, the invasion could be costly (in losses and PP). Thirdly, if Massina plays cleverly he could be able to stop or at least slow this operation considerably. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I also do not think that it is unrealistic that the British in Egypt are not active from the beginning of the war. This simulates the historic situation correctly. The British in Egypt were not strong at the beginning of the war. In fact the Italian were far superior in numbers and the British offensive (which was very succesfull) began only in December 1940 (Operation Compass). Even then the British were outnumbered and not fully prepared.