Tigers and Panthers suck

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:40 pm

Yes we used to charge AP's for turning but found it annoying so took it out. It might even still be in there and just needs un-commenting.

adherbal · Post by **adherbal** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:49 pm

Perhaps turning should only be allowed when there are action points left, but without actualy costing any. So if you consume the last AP the direction of movement will determine your orientation. But if you move 1 tile short of max distance you can still turn into another direction. The turning would not consume the last AP so you can still do that final move if you change your mind.

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:13 pm

adherbal wrote:Perhaps turning should only be allowed when there are action points left, but without actualy costing any. So if you consume the last AP the direction of movement will determine your orientation. But if you move 1 tile short of max distance you can still turn into another direction. The turning would not consume the last AP so you can still do that final move if you change your mind.

That sounds like a fantastic idea and allows for tactical decisions as well.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:36 pm

After all this denying it.... I've just there may be a bug in the armour data/weapon data..... oops.

It was indeed possible for Shermans to get kills they shouldn't. It has been fixed and we'll roll out a fix ASAP. Sorry for not investigating sooner but I thiought this was all ok!

Only issue it will cuase oddness in MP games as they update and possible discrepencies between what you see and what your opponent sees.

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:52 pm

iainmcneil wrote:After all this denying it.... I've just there may be a bug in the armour data/weapon data..... oops.

It was indeed possible for Shermans to get kills they shouldn't. It has been fixed and we'll roll out a fix ASAP. Sorry for not investigating sooner but I thiought this was all ok!

Only issue it will cuase oddness in MP games as they update and possible discrepencies between what you see and what your opponent sees.

Interesting. Out of curiosity, what was supposed to be happening, and what was actually happening? Just curious what kind of changes we'll see.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:58 pm

Its a long story but the end result was that there was too much variability between the minimum and maximum penetration values meaning that things that should have been pentrated sometimes didn't and things that shouldn't be pentrated sometimes did.

Now you'll find a Sherman cannot knock out a Panther frontally ever. It can still take down a Tiger but its a much reduced chance.

MrsWargamer · Post by **MrsWargamer** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:58 pm

That's good news actually.

I'm sure the big cats being pussies has harmed the games rep on the market. Fixing that is going to lead to a lot of happier people.

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:07 pm

DSWargamer wrote:That's good news actually.

I'm sure the big cats being pussies has harmed the games rep on the market.

I would be very surprised if that were the case. I just can't see someone saying they're not going to buy this game because Tigers and Panthers aren't 'realistic.' This isn't exactly a simulator.

MrsWargamer · Post by **MrsWargamer** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:50 pm

Well the comment was mainly based on all the crying I have seen over petulant potential customers sitting out there waiting for a solo German game to happen.

I can't picture them buying a game where a Tiger isn't the wrath of god and all but untouchable

Sadly the game's scale and map size is hardly open running big gun friendly conditions. Even if someone DOES make us a Russian front mod, the map unless much bigger will still be better suited to the appropriate German forces.

The trick I am finding, is in using your big cats as known threats, drive em around, let the other guy hear them clanking around, and just keep em hidden in the opening game as a concealed threat. Once they have lost a few items to mundane combat, the big cats are all the more scary too

Post by **pipfromslitherine** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:52 pm

I think the fear will be back in 1.3.7... Check it out!

But they are still vulnerable to good tactics and smart play. You just need to give them a little more respect

Cheers

Pip

tonywkim · Post by **tonywkim** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:00 pm

pipfromslitherine wrote:I think the fear will be back in 1.3.7... Check it out!

But they are still vulnerable to good tactics and smart play. You just need to give them a little more respect

Cheers

Pip

also what about the range of the guns? it appears from the few times i've played with tigers/panthers that the range of the gun is not much different than the shermans and m-18/m-36. will you guys be adjusting the range as well?

insidius · Post by **insidius** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:02 pm

tonywkim wrote:
pipfromslitherine wrote:I think the fear will be back in 1.3.7... Check it out!

But they are still vulnerable to good tactics and smart play. You just need to give them a little more respect

Cheers

Pip
also what about the range of the guns? it appears from the few times i've played with tigers/panthers that the range of the gun is not much different than the shermans and m-18/m-36. will you guys be adjusting the range as well?

If they adjust tank guns, fixed guns need adjusting too. This gets out of hand fast lol.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:10 pm

No plans to make their ranges any higher - we could drop other untis ranges down, but 8 tiles is as much as I'm confortable with. To be honest though a Sherman has a range of 8 tiles it can't hit anything at that range and if it does its going to bounce. I don't think a change is necessary.

niknaks · Post by **niknaks** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:21 pm

(hehe so i was right all the long german frontal armor was screwed up i had sherman kill me from 7 tiles away) ill have to test his new patch and yes it was a panther 4 but at was before is new patch going to test it out

Deadmeat1471 · Post by **Deadmeat1471** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:14 am

Real men drive Shermans.

cptkremmen · Post by **cptkremmen** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:11 pm

Deadmeat1471 wrote:Real men drive Shermans.

Fair comment you'd have to be a "real man" to go to war in that pile of C*ck!

Deadmeat1471 · Post by **Deadmeat1471** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:36 pm

Being a student of history, I cant argue there. lol

*saying that, in my current mp game they are performing well

so far..

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:57 pm

The games is based on the reseach by Dr John Buckley, an expert in WW2 tank warfare.

Well, I do hope he's not the same EXPERT that the discovery channel uses. You know, the one that claims the #1 killing machine of WW2 was the American Hellcat. In fact, the whole victory of WW2 was due to the M18 HellCat.

I'm still trying to figure that one out...

Granfali · Post by **Granfali** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:45 pm

insidius wrote:
Is there a way to make turning in place cost movement points as well? That might be an idea.

I agree. It turns game more real. It is absolutely unreal to see Archers, Stugs, etc... pivote-dancing and firing when you engage it from multiple sides.

That sort of vehicles has to show their disadvantage in close combat.

So turn turret needs AP consumption and turn the whole vehicle more AP even.

A possible solution to make this option easier is to create a button to save enough points to rotate (vehicle or turret) so player can avoid to spend the whole AP moving the vehicle (similar in Panzer Campaign Series, where clicking that button allow to save enough points to fire, not to using all of them with the movement).

MesaDon · Post by **MesaDon** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:18 pm

Saving an AP for a pivot I can see but to start adding using AP just to pivot the turret starts to take this from the light wargame that anyone can pick up and play to that slippery slope to more rules then many people wish to deal with after a hard days work.