I don't know if I agree with this. Isolationist sentiment in the US still ran high at the time Sealion was a strong possibility, and one could just as well make the argument that a successful Sealion would push the US entry into the war even further back.trulster wrote:Agree, in fact a successful (ie taking London) Sealion should also have a quickening effect on US war declaration.
Amerika in Flames---The War is over and Peace treaty signed!
Moderators: Happycat, rkr1958, Slitherine Core
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joerock22
- Captain - Heavy Cruiser
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:38 am
- Location: Connecticut, USA
I posted about this on the vanilla game awhile back. I couldn't understand why Russian war effort would come online so slowly if they were invaded in April 1941. I don't know about immediately increasing to 100%, but it should increase much faster than it would in peacetime.pk867 wrote:Another point is to shorten the cycle between war effort updates. Right now it is every 4 or 5 turns or once per quarter of the year.
Just for fun in 1939 as the German player declare war on the USA and watch what happens.. nothing.
The war effort increases the same as if the country was at peace. IMO Any Major power that is DoW should increase to 100% very quickly given they were attacked.
I'm not so sure war effort should increase any faster, to me war effort does not just include the actual "effort" put into the war but also how quicky can factories be converted to manufacture military hardware......changing a factory from making cars into making tanks etc does not happen overnight.
Well thats my way of looking at it!
Well thats my way of looking at it!
turn 8: Approching the outskirts ofthe french capital...
Sorry no printscreen this last turn forgot!!!
Anyway, we are now touching the french capital on 3 hexes, 2 of them over the river. The first turn of nice weather will see the downfall of the french. It was mud last turn, so maybee clear next turn??? I certainly hope so
On sea, ran headlong into that damned french sub with my DD trying to retreat to port... The good thing about this is that i was able to obliterate it... Anyway the rest of the german navy was able to get clear to friendly ports except for a sub that will cover the retreat of the DD for next turn.
The BB on the production queue is 3 turns away now. I will produce my CV next turn and this turn i invested in 1 naval research point.
I dont not know if i am going to Canada yet, but i am gearing up for it. If it doesnt work out the way i want, no matter since its going to help me resist longer against the western allies.
And besides, killing the french in january-february does give me a lot of room in production options... So once the french are gone, speed wil be of the essence. I will move all forces to the nearest ports , repair them the turn after that, and then immediatly go for England. The TAc is due in 2 turns, and the BB in 3 turns. Perfect timing!!! If i can surprise the churchillians with a quick attack which they will not expect, i believe i can take the place (south england) before end of july.
I am currently displaying 2 options in my sealion planning. Both involve a assured landings if PanzerGeneral doesnt do the perfect moves. Once i am on land, the cat will be out of the bag and then it will be only a matter of time.
The Italians will also be an important part of our Sealion push, and they may also be the ones gearing up for the North America invasion as soon as possible. Maybee i could push this idea really far and attack Gibralar to release the Italian navy in the Atantic, thus assuring me total naval superiority in the Atlantic? Doable, doable, but the oil!!!!!!!! this would be a very nice coordination... I may do this right away, since i dont need that much of an overwhelming force to overtake SPain and then Gibraltar because the english will be occupied elsewhere with their reienforcements...
Anyway, we are now touching the french capital on 3 hexes, 2 of them over the river. The first turn of nice weather will see the downfall of the french. It was mud last turn, so maybee clear next turn??? I certainly hope so
On sea, ran headlong into that damned french sub with my DD trying to retreat to port... The good thing about this is that i was able to obliterate it... Anyway the rest of the german navy was able to get clear to friendly ports except for a sub that will cover the retreat of the DD for next turn.
The BB on the production queue is 3 turns away now. I will produce my CV next turn and this turn i invested in 1 naval research point.
I dont not know if i am going to Canada yet, but i am gearing up for it. If it doesnt work out the way i want, no matter since its going to help me resist longer against the western allies.
And besides, killing the french in january-february does give me a lot of room in production options... So once the french are gone, speed wil be of the essence. I will move all forces to the nearest ports , repair them the turn after that, and then immediatly go for England. The TAc is due in 2 turns, and the BB in 3 turns. Perfect timing!!! If i can surprise the churchillians with a quick attack which they will not expect, i believe i can take the place (south england) before end of july.
I am currently displaying 2 options in my sealion planning. Both involve a assured landings if PanzerGeneral doesnt do the perfect moves. Once i am on land, the cat will be out of the bag and then it will be only a matter of time.
The Italians will also be an important part of our Sealion push, and they may also be the ones gearing up for the North America invasion as soon as possible. Maybee i could push this idea really far and attack Gibralar to release the Italian navy in the Atantic, thus assuring me total naval superiority in the Atlantic? Doable, doable, but the oil!!!!!!!! this would be a very nice coordination... I may do this right away, since i dont need that much of an overwhelming force to overtake SPain and then Gibraltar because the english will be occupied elsewhere with their reienforcements...
Berlin Chancellery, january 1940
The big wooden double doors , flanked by 2 SS guards, opened to give way to Grand Admiral Raeder and admiral Karl Doenitz. Both dressed up in their nicest white german navy uniforms, they wore the best of smiles and confidence. So far, so good. Their naval campaign was going better than expected... No significant losses on the german side, and most importantly 1 french sub, 1 english sub, 2 British battleships and 1 French battleships sunks and a aircraft Carrier as well...
Hitler, forever being the pessimist at sea, one element that he never truly understood, was now enthousiastic about the recents results and had summonned the 2 top admirals in the Kriegsmarine to discuss strategic options open to germany, following Manstein bold plan of attack in the west, so successeful as to get the french to capitulate before the spring...
Orders had already been sent to german industry for the construction of the Frederick Der Grobe, a brand new battleship bristling with 3800mm guns. The Graf Zeppelin, the first german aircraft carrier, was also being prepared on drydocks. More subs were also in the planning. It was a grand time for naval people like Raeder and Doenitz.
The 2 of them never really agreed on where the production priority should be put into, Doenitz folowing the basic principle that the Royal navy was too strong, Raeder believing in strong surface elements... So far, Raeder has won the argument, simply with the unfolding events in the Channel. Having a substantial surface fleet would also make possible the invasion of Britain...
So entering the room were 2 very confident admirals. Facing them was Hermann Goering, the bombastic and mostly incompetent head of the Luftwaffe.
"Ah, admirals", paused Goering. " It is good to see you my friends", said the big man, tapping Doenitz on the shoulder with a evident familiarity. Goering had been rendered very friendly to the 2 mans since he had also reaped prestige benefits of the recents success at sea, whith an excellent cooperation with the naval and air arm, thanks to people like Udet and Kesselring, open to the ideas that if the Royal Navy could be defeated, the war would be won. Goering continued: " Gentlemans, we should now assemble around the table and plan our next moves"... Looking up, the admirals saw that Erich von manstein, Von Brauchitz and Von Runsdetdt were all looking over maps representing the area immediate with the Channel. Raeder noticed that, odly, a complete map of the East coast of North America was on the table, and many notes were written on it. All present at the table noted stiffly to the newcomers. Goering lead them up to the table. they chit chatted for a little over 5 minutes, exchanging polite discussions ever so present when admirals and generals meet, because of the competitive nature of the 2 services.
A clap of military boots announced the arrival of Adolf Hitler in the room, coming also thru the big double wooden doors. He arborred his nicest uniforms and seemed in excellent mood. Smiling, all knew that the dictator was in a great state of mind lately, following the success against the hated enemy, the damned French.
He went directly to the table, nodding silently to all around the maps. “ Gentlemens, I have put a lot of thoughts into the actions to take in the wake of our recent successes” The reichmarshall and I and both in agreement”, he briefly stopped to get an approving look from Goering. He then continued:
“As you all read Mein Kampf (Hitler liked to think that everyone had read his book), the future of Germany is in the Lebensraum, in Russia” he created a little ripple of uneasiness thru the audience. “but, in lights of recent events I think that we can permit ourselves to have a go at Britain”, he paused to put his finger on the map, repeatedly tapping it while starting talking again “So you generals and admirals will be responsible to present me a plan to take over the british isles. This operation will be called Sealion” He nodded to Goering in a quick glance, which was a signal for the Reichmarshall to put the Northern America map on top and in the middle of the table.
Hitler continued “ And then, you will also draw the first operational guidelines for a landing in Canada”. With these words, the whole audience was thunderstruck… Goering for his part was having one of those crazy smile of his, since he was always in agreement with his master. “ This operation will be called Wolfkrieg”, he paused for dramatic effect…
Raeder, totally num with surprise, could not say a word. The Kriegsmarine was in no way capable of doing something like this without a massive production programme or a decisive victory in the upcoming Sealion operation… Doenitz exchanged a worried glance with him. Both understood, at that moment, that it would be very hard to convince the Fuehrer to change his mind even if the task was Herculean…
Hitler, forever being the pessimist at sea, one element that he never truly understood, was now enthousiastic about the recents results and had summonned the 2 top admirals in the Kriegsmarine to discuss strategic options open to germany, following Manstein bold plan of attack in the west, so successeful as to get the french to capitulate before the spring...
Orders had already been sent to german industry for the construction of the Frederick Der Grobe, a brand new battleship bristling with 3800mm guns. The Graf Zeppelin, the first german aircraft carrier, was also being prepared on drydocks. More subs were also in the planning. It was a grand time for naval people like Raeder and Doenitz.
The 2 of them never really agreed on where the production priority should be put into, Doenitz folowing the basic principle that the Royal navy was too strong, Raeder believing in strong surface elements... So far, Raeder has won the argument, simply with the unfolding events in the Channel. Having a substantial surface fleet would also make possible the invasion of Britain...
So entering the room were 2 very confident admirals. Facing them was Hermann Goering, the bombastic and mostly incompetent head of the Luftwaffe.
"Ah, admirals", paused Goering. " It is good to see you my friends", said the big man, tapping Doenitz on the shoulder with a evident familiarity. Goering had been rendered very friendly to the 2 mans since he had also reaped prestige benefits of the recents success at sea, whith an excellent cooperation with the naval and air arm, thanks to people like Udet and Kesselring, open to the ideas that if the Royal Navy could be defeated, the war would be won. Goering continued: " Gentlemans, we should now assemble around the table and plan our next moves"... Looking up, the admirals saw that Erich von manstein, Von Brauchitz and Von Runsdetdt were all looking over maps representing the area immediate with the Channel. Raeder noticed that, odly, a complete map of the East coast of North America was on the table, and many notes were written on it. All present at the table noted stiffly to the newcomers. Goering lead them up to the table. they chit chatted for a little over 5 minutes, exchanging polite discussions ever so present when admirals and generals meet, because of the competitive nature of the 2 services.
A clap of military boots announced the arrival of Adolf Hitler in the room, coming also thru the big double wooden doors. He arborred his nicest uniforms and seemed in excellent mood. Smiling, all knew that the dictator was in a great state of mind lately, following the success against the hated enemy, the damned French.
He went directly to the table, nodding silently to all around the maps. “ Gentlemens, I have put a lot of thoughts into the actions to take in the wake of our recent successes” The reichmarshall and I and both in agreement”, he briefly stopped to get an approving look from Goering. He then continued:
“As you all read Mein Kampf (Hitler liked to think that everyone had read his book), the future of Germany is in the Lebensraum, in Russia” he created a little ripple of uneasiness thru the audience. “but, in lights of recent events I think that we can permit ourselves to have a go at Britain”, he paused to put his finger on the map, repeatedly tapping it while starting talking again “So you generals and admirals will be responsible to present me a plan to take over the british isles. This operation will be called Sealion” He nodded to Goering in a quick glance, which was a signal for the Reichmarshall to put the Northern America map on top and in the middle of the table.
Hitler continued “ And then, you will also draw the first operational guidelines for a landing in Canada”. With these words, the whole audience was thunderstruck… Goering for his part was having one of those crazy smile of his, since he was always in agreement with his master. “ This operation will be called Wolfkrieg”, he paused for dramatic effect…
Raeder, totally num with surprise, could not say a word. The Kriegsmarine was in no way capable of doing something like this without a massive production programme or a decisive victory in the upcoming Sealion operation… Doenitz exchanged a worried glance with him. Both understood, at that moment, that it would be very hard to convince the Fuehrer to change his mind even if the task was Herculean…
turn 8: Probing the french capital
We are finalizing our assault on the french capital... Mud again this turn... The first turn it turns good, we take the place...
Also produced a german CV, christened the Graf Zeppelin. Another Cv has been put down, it will be called the Seydlitz...
Other than that, no more consideration. The german high comman thinks that since the french will capitulate incrediby early, that it can permit itself to spend some money on naval assets before going full tilt in Russia.
Also produced a german CV, christened the Graf Zeppelin. Another Cv has been put down, it will be called the Seydlitz...
Other than that, no more consideration. The german high comman thinks that since the french will capitulate incrediby early, that it can permit itself to spend some money on naval assets before going full tilt in Russia.
Turn 9: Battle for french capital intensify
The french are 1 turn from surrender, winter or no winter, the capital is encircled from 5 sides. Its been slow, tough and hard , but it was worth it we are going to be able to hit England full force in early may...
So 4 steps left on the capital city. I am also 1 turn away from getting another BB (the Frederick Der Grobe). this turn i received another TAC. 4 TAC are enough for the upcoming campaign against England. I wonder how Panzer general defends the place.
The downside about this early conquest of Rance is the money you have then to spend in order to repair severely depleted force... But in war, the only way to win time is by being bold and trhowing caution to the 4 winds... The payoff is usually great.
I wonder what other players do in their games. Most are very cautious about their losses and advance only when they are sure. I found this strategy to be workable against a passive allied player, but not against a counter-attacking one. Anyway just a thought!
So 4 steps left on the capital city. I am also 1 turn away from getting another BB (the Frederick Der Grobe). this turn i received another TAC. 4 TAC are enough for the upcoming campaign against England. I wonder how Panzer general defends the place.
The downside about this early conquest of Rance is the money you have then to spend in order to repair severely depleted force... But in war, the only way to win time is by being bold and trhowing caution to the 4 winds... The payoff is usually great.
I wonder what other players do in their games. Most are very cautious about their losses and advance only when they are sure. I found this strategy to be workable against a passive allied player, but not against a counter-attacking one. Anyway just a thought!
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Peter Stauffenberg
- General - Carrier
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
Ok Borger. The german losses will be horrendous compared to a normal campaign i think. I find it worth it nonetheless, so far in 2 GS games before this one i was able to take over the British isles and attack Russia with an unbelievable numbers of troops...
This game might be different on the Russians, since if i take britain i will give it a go to Canada...
Like i said i will also probably campaign thru Spain to get the Italian fleet out in the Atlantic. The combined might of 5 sub, 4 BB, 2 DD and 1 CV should give me the upper hand for a LONG TIME in the Atlantic after that.
This game might be different on the Russians, since if i take britain i will give it a go to Canada...
Like i said i will also probably campaign thru Spain to get the Italian fleet out in the Atlantic. The combined might of 5 sub, 4 BB, 2 DD and 1 CV should give me the upper hand for a LONG TIME in the Atlantic after that.
Geez, and they said Hitler was a megalomaniac. Good luck with the world conquest.
Seriously, I think you have time for one grand objective. Canada is only possible if you do it before the US comes in.
Spain, ala the Spanish gambit is quite doable, but seems to take a while to accomplish.
Great Britain is certainly a possibility but can be time consuming.
Time is the German's enemy in this game. They have time to do one outrageous act, but barring horrendous Allied incompetence, can't away with more than one w/o paying for it on the Russian Front.
Seriously, I think you have time for one grand objective. Canada is only possible if you do it before the US comes in.
Spain, ala the Spanish gambit is quite doable, but seems to take a while to accomplish.
Great Britain is certainly a possibility but can be time consuming.
Time is the German's enemy in this game. They have time to do one outrageous act, but barring horrendous Allied incompetence, can't away with more than one w/o paying for it on the Russian Front.
I don't know if this can happen in GS, but in earlier versions of the game it was certainly possible to win by conquering Canada before the US and USSR enter the war. Also, taking the fight to North America, even in a losing battle, ensures that it's a loooong time until the Western Allies show up in Europe and diverts resources away from convoy escorts. Of course, it has to be balanced with other needs, like production for Barbarossa, oil reserves, and manpower, but in a best case scenario, the Axis can beat the UK and the US, then steadily crush the USSR.shawkhan wrote:Geez, and they said Hitler was a megalomaniac. Good luck with the world conquest.
Seriously, I think you have time for one grand objective. Canada is only possible if you do it before the US comes in.
Spain, ala the Spanish gambit is quite doable, but seems to take a while to accomplish.
Great Britain is certainly a possibility but can be time consuming.
Time is the German's enemy in this game. They have time to do one outrageous act, but barring horrendous Allied incompetence, can't away with more than one w/o paying for it on the Russian Front.
I'm attempting just this in a vanilla game: http://forum.freeverse.com/viewtopic.php?id=3055
We will just have to see what i can accomplish, but it can really be simple. Commit a certain numbers of troops and ressources, and then produce solely for Barbarossa. More limited aims for 1941, but grand schme for 1942 since there would be no western allies nuisance to contend with.
The Spanish operation would only be a sideshow for the allies to spend points on repairs and for me to send infantry. Once Gibraltar would fall, then the Italians could join the germans to have fun in the Atlantic.
Also, i've attacked Russia with the full might of the german/axis forces in 1941, after having destroyed England by end of june 1940 against Joerock, and still wasnt able to do moscow because Winter showed itself in early october... So whats the point in being too ready in 1941 anyway? The mod is organized in a way that a reasonable or very good german player will get to the Leningrad-Tula-Rostov line by late fall early winter...
On the matter of destroying England before the USSR get into the game, i am not interested in doing that. In fact, i would intentionnaly not take ottawa before this so i could complete my megalomaniac aims.
Once and if i get Britain, then i'll cross the Atlantic, and then when i get to Halifax i'll decide whats to do with the situation at hand. I might also not do it altogether since there's been a lot of talks on this subject on my AAR so info might leak to him and then he would be superbly ready for me in Canada. I'll post a sub near Halifax just to check this and not cross the Atlantic for nothing. Also will move naval assets to the irish coast to block any precipitated retreat once i get ashore.
The Spanish operation would only be a sideshow for the allies to spend points on repairs and for me to send infantry. Once Gibraltar would fall, then the Italians could join the germans to have fun in the Atlantic.
Also, i've attacked Russia with the full might of the german/axis forces in 1941, after having destroyed England by end of june 1940 against Joerock, and still wasnt able to do moscow because Winter showed itself in early october... So whats the point in being too ready in 1941 anyway? The mod is organized in a way that a reasonable or very good german player will get to the Leningrad-Tula-Rostov line by late fall early winter...
On the matter of destroying England before the USSR get into the game, i am not interested in doing that. In fact, i would intentionnaly not take ottawa before this so i could complete my megalomaniac aims.
Once and if i get Britain, then i'll cross the Atlantic, and then when i get to Halifax i'll decide whats to do with the situation at hand. I might also not do it altogether since there's been a lot of talks on this subject on my AAR so info might leak to him and then he would be superbly ready for me in Canada. I'll post a sub near Halifax just to check this and not cross the Atlantic for nothing. Also will move naval assets to the irish coast to block any precipitated retreat once i get ashore.
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Peter Stauffenberg
- General - Carrier
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
German forces strom the french capital. France SURRENDERS!
It is now march 18, a great day for the German Reich. France has formally surrendered, after a bitter winter campaign, fought bravely by both sides. But in the end, the german forces were just too numerous and too strong...
Turn 10: Was able to take Paris, while repairing most of my forces for the next phase in the campaign, that is to give a go at England. English sub also took a pounding since he was i the way of my DD.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
German troops parading thru Paris
More german troops parading thru Paris
Formal French surrender
Also see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aCmjRXqGuw
GREAT VIDEO OF THE SURRENDER!
Turn 10: Was able to take Paris, while repairing most of my forces for the next phase in the campaign, that is to give a go at England. English sub also took a pounding since he was i the way of my DD.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
German troops parading thru Paris
More german troops parading thru Paris
Formal French surrender
Also see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aCmjRXqGuw
GREAT VIDEO OF THE SURRENDER!
Last edited by supermax on Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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trulster
- Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
- Posts: 437
- Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:20 pm
- Location: London
Hmm, a bit too early to say if this blitzkrieg drop in efficiency is too much, need more plays I think.
Just held France to Oct 40 against the PGeneral, through solid British support. Losses were:
Germany:
inf 644608
arm 1352
air 2132
navy 125
UK:
Inf 997128 (of which UK proper losses was one Garrison).
air 1378 (subtract the Polish fighter should give the UK losses)
navy 135
Just held France to Oct 40 against the PGeneral, through solid British support. Losses were:
Germany:
inf 644608
arm 1352
air 2132
navy 125
UK:
Inf 997128 (of which UK proper losses was one Garrison).
air 1378 (subtract the Polish fighter should give the UK losses)
navy 135
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Peter Stauffenberg
- General - Carrier
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
We have to see the German losses before we can make any conclusions. I'm sure France would have held longer with more accurate Allied play.leridano wrote:This game show us that the blitzkrieg penalty for Benelux and France let the things too easy for an average axis player. May be it would have to reduce or to keep off this blitzkrieg penalty in the west.
