Britcon

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:50 pm

What is SEED ??????

Robert241167 · Post by **Robert241167** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:54 pm

The players ranked highest in the FOG rankings.

Rob

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:38 pm

Ok

Do not want to vex someone, but that ranking is somewhat artificial as it ranks people who manage to go to a max of tournaments

but it is usefull .

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:24 pm

bahdahbum wrote:Ok

Do not want to vex someone, but that ranking is somewhat artificial as it ranks people who manage to go to a max of tournaments but it is usefull .

I think the ranking system is improving all the time

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:56 pm

yep

So you met my friend Gilles at Rome

and overcame

Hope not to meet the same fate

but a nikephorian army is not that flexible but I love it

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:45 pm

bahdahbum wrote:Ok

Do not want to vex someone, but that ranking is somewhat artificial as it ranks people who manage to go to a max of tournaments but it is usefull .

Actually once a player has played 6 or more tournament in a year playing more tournaments will not have a big impact on their ranking.

All being seeded does is mean that a seeded player cannot be drawn against another seeded player in round 1. If anything the 'expectation' being seeded places on a player can significantly impair their performance.

I am sure there are players who are not seeded who are better than those who are seeded. We could have a long debate about rankings and draw systems but to be honest the seeding is just a standard thing that is done at BHGS competitions. It could be argued that being seeded gives a player an advantage or it could be argued that as the better players are seeded then the seeds will tend to do better. If you have an hour or so at Britcon I would be happy to explain the ins and outs of rankings and draw systems as I see them.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:56 am

hammy wrote:
bahdahbum wrote:Ok

Do not want to vex someone, but that ranking is somewhat artificial as it ranks people who manage to go to a max of tournaments but it is usefull .
Actually once a player has played 6 or more tournament in a year playing more tournaments will not have a big impact on their ranking.

All being seeded does is mean that a seeded player cannot be drawn against another seeded player in round 1. If anything the 'expectation' being seeded places on a player can significantly impair their performance.

I am sure there are players who are not seeded who are better than those who are seeded. We could have a long debate about rankings and draw systems but to be honest the seeding is just a standard thing that is done at BHGS competitions. It could be argued that being seeded gives a player an advantage or it could be argued that as the better players are seeded then the seeds will tend to do better. If you have an hour or so at Britcon I would be happy to explain the ins and outs of rankings and draw systems as I see them.

I'm surprised that seeidng is still used at BHGS competitions.

In the days when a competition had over a hundred players I could see the logic - give the better players a soft first draw and there's more chance you'll get a 'proper' winner at the end. I know others thought this logic flawed. There are arguments against - the most important in my mind being that seeds get a better chance of winning than non seeds.

With smaller fields though the support for the logic of a 'proper' winner is less. So, apart from tradition, I'm not sure why BHGS persists with it?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:08 am

I am coming to the same conclusion as Graham since the seeding does seem to give me a big advantage over someone who hasn't been able to get to as many competitions as me, but may be equally as good or probably better.

And anyway this year I have such a wily plan you could pin a tail on it and call it a coyote.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:27 am

grahambriggs wrote:I'm surprised that seeidng is still used at BHGS competitions.

In the days when a competition had over a hundred players I could see the logic - give the better players a soft first draw and there's more chance you'll get a 'proper' winner at the end. I know others thought this logic flawed. There are arguments against - the most important in my mind being that seeds get a better chance of winning than non seeds.

With smaller fields though the support for the logic of a 'proper' winner is less. So, apart from tradition, I'm not sure why BHGS persists with it?

Mainly tradition and to give people something to complain about or at least discuss before the event. I have had a couple of off list e-mails from people asking why they were or were not seeded. At the club last night several people were actively discussion who was and who wasn't etc.

If anything getting to be seeded is a nice target for a less successful player.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:58 am

philqw78 wrote:I am coming to the same conclusion as Graham since the seeding does seem to give me a big advantage over someone who hasn't been able to get to as many competitions as me, but may be equally as good or probably better.

And anyway this year I have such a wily plan you could pin a tail on it and call it a coyote.

Is that the "charge straight ahead with 40+ bases of cavalry superior armoured lancer swordsmen" plan, or another one?

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:17 am

And anyway this year I have such a wily plan you could pin a tail on it and call it a coyote.

Is that the "charge straight ahead with 40+ bases of cavalry superior armoured lancer swordsmen" plan, or another one?

Not quite, although there is a passing resemblance

Let's just hope it works better than last night eh? 23-2 I think

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:31 am

grahambriggs wrote: With smaller fields though the support for the logic of a 'proper' winner is less. So, apart from tradition, I'm not sure why BHGS persists with it?

Something for dullards to talk about?

Robert241167 · Post by **Robert241167** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:53 am

Just a question on parking for residential delegates, it explains these will be refunded on production of a car parking ticket. Would I not get the cost of this once I get my car after the event has finished? How does this work?

Cheers

Rob

rogerg · Post by **rogerg** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:05 pm

No problems here Rob. If it is like previous years the machine gives you a ticket. You get it 'processed' at the event reception and it passes in the machine as you leave the car park.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:05 pm

Robert241167 wrote:Just a question on parking for residential delegates, it explains these will be refunded on production of a car parking ticket. Would I not get the cost of this once I get my car after the event has finished? How does this work?

Cheers

Rob

I seem to remember you get your ticket when you park, then get it validated when you sign in to the competition. Can't remember the details but it all seems to work.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:14 pm

It is an NCP car park - one where you get your ticket and then pay when you return to validate your ticket. There is a further machine at the exit of the car park which you put your validated ticket into which let's you leave.

Now, here is the clever bit... You give your ticket to the person at reception and they put it into a machine that validates the ticket and it doesn't cost anything!

Job's a good'un.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:30 pm

dave_r wrote:It is an NCP car park - one where you get your ticket and then pay when you return to validate your ticket. There is a further machine at the exit of the car park which you put your validated ticket into which let's you leave.

Now, here is the clever bit... You give your ticket to the person at reception and they put it into a machine that validates the ticket and it doesn't cost anything!

Job's a good'un.

It was an NCP car park, it is now the 'University of Manchester carpark' don't you guys ever read anything on the BHGS website?

Get the ticket when you enter and get it validated at the event. We normally don;t validate tickets till the Saturday IIRC.

You only get to leave the carpark the once with the validated ticket.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:53 pm

don't you guys ever read anything on the BHGS website

Not any more. There isn't much of interest on there. Somebody should take responsibility and get the site updated.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:57 pm

hammy wrote:
dave_r wrote:It is an NCP car park - one where you get your ticket and then pay when you return to validate your ticket. There is a further machine at the exit of the car park which you put your validated ticket into which let's you leave.

Now, here is the clever bit... You give your ticket to the person at reception and they put it into a machine that validates the ticket and it doesn't cost anything!

Job's a good'un.
It was an NCP car park, it is now the 'University of Manchester carpark' don't you guys ever read anything on the BHGS website?

Get the ticket when you enter and get it validated at the event. We normally don;t validate tickets till the Saturday IIRC.

You only get to leave the carpark the once with the validated ticket.

Walked to the car park this morning as it says on BHGS site its now Manchester Univ Car Park, about 500 yards from the reception block, for those thinking of driving thursday for practice games to park there for 24 hours costs £10 very cheap i think for manchester parking. But as hammy and others say its free from friday onwards with ticket sorted.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:08 pm

As Hammy said at the club quite a discussion about seedings.

Of course the seedings do help the seeded players or way elese do it.

I've been told that people might play for a draw if two top seeders play, now I can see that happening not example last night Dave and Phil neither played for a draw or I've never seen Hammy play for a draw I know a club game is different but. To be honest a stright draw would'nt stop the top players winning it might make it harder for them though. Too me it gives easier games to top players thats fine but say that then don't hide behind other reasons.

If your going to have seedings why such a high properation in the early period 44 players 10 seeded players 23% seeded seems a tad high.

TBH this will not change, and I'm sure there are some very good players who have'nt been seeded.

Britcon

Seeding