It has been almost 11 weeks without any news on game content

[adiekmann]

I just watched the Tea Time and listened carefully to his comments...

I hope some of this "behind the scenes" work that they are doing includes addressing the slow down issue, the hero management window, and paratrooper problems to name just a few. But why not just tell us that?

For example:
"We are taking a break from developing the next DLC to focus and catch up on various issues and improvements that our team and players have noticed/suggested. Please understand that the wait will be worth it once completed. Thank you for your patience."

That I just don't understand. Nothing that I made up in the example above is specific or committing to anything that can come back and bite them in the ass.

[Chalaceador]

We will know more after 14th december. I have just watched tea time with Marco and somewhere around 18th minute he mentioned there will be informations about Panzer Corps 2 (and it´s future) during this event. (21:15 was question about patch)

Hoping for good news

Ridiculous

[Retributarr]

Game content and Patches will get done... when they get done!:

However long it takes... it takes... this is complicated "stuff" that they are dealing with. The main desired result... is that the process to retrofit/fix the Game will be successful... resulting in 'Relief' to those of us that are afflicted one way or another from this scourge.

In my case... I cannot proceed to the next Scenario after the first one has been completed!. Some!, I cant even start at all!.

In the meantime... if this goes on far too-long... all that will be left will be "Bleached Bones and Cobwebs"... for those in wait of a solution.

[GUNDOBALDO08]

I can only forgive them if in the revision they are doing (if they are doing it) they put the finnish troops in the scenarios set in finland…

[Funeral]

I'm done!

I'll go back to PC1 and maybe try to convert some of the PC2 Scenarios for PC1.

[Rhaeg]

One thing that is pretty obvious is that Kerensky hasn't posted for 2 months or so. I also remember a post somewhere mentioning that "they" (the AO team) needed a break, but from what I can see the AO team pretty much is Kerensky. Not so weird if you rely on 1 person and that person needs a break for whatever reason that everything will grind to a halt. As someone mentioned, the AO DLCs are pretty much very high quality mods with plenty of new unit models and now the modder is out of action. For some reason they're only remaining mostly silent and when they do tell us something it's meaningless things like

there's movement, and we have a tentative internal range of dates

so why not just be clear and say that development is on hiatus for a while. In any event, for those who think they've been working on huge fixes and improvements for the past few months: I wouldn't expect any miracles.

More importantly: I hope Kerensky is doing well and if not is on the mend at least.

We will know more after 14th december. I have just watched tea time with Marco and somewhere around 18th minute he mentioned there will be informations about Panzer Corps 2 (and it´s future) during this event. (21:15 was question about patch)

Hoping for good news

So does this mean the release of the Pacific DLC is no longer on schedule for a 2021 release either? Now that does surprise me, since it's being made by other people.

[George_Parr]

so why not just be clear and say that development is on hiatus for a while.

You are assuming that this is the case, but an assumption is just that, an assumption. Why do you expect them to say something that might not be true?
You thinking that progress is too slow and that it could only mean they aren't actively working on it, is in no way connected to what the developers are actually doing.

They made a specific statement that there would be a break coming up for the AO-DLCs. They didn't define the exact length of the break, nor is it customary to do so. That didn't stop people from complaining about a lack of information for the next AO-DLC less than two months later, as if the people who complained couldn't be bothered to check the last statements that had been made.

So does this mean the release of the Pacific DLC is no longer on schedule for a 2021 release either? Now that does surprise me, since it's being made by other people.

There has never been any word on when the Pacific DLC would come out. You can't say that something is no longer scheduled for 2021 when there was never any statement that said it was scheduled for 2021 in the first place. People just jumped to conclusions and assumed that the Pacific DLC would fill the void that the break of the AO-DLCs would cause. One cannot hold a developer responsible for things he never said. Maybe it could be argued that it would have been beneficial for Slitherine to make it abundantly clear that the next release would take a while, but it is hardly unusual to keep things vague when dealing with something entirely new, like the Pacific campaign.


Would it be nice to get a patch as quickly as possible to fix obvious issues, or to get a new DLC soon? Yes, but it isn't always obvious what dealing with these things includes.
Would it be nice for Slitherine to be a bit more forthcoming with information? Yes, but if there is nothing to say yet, then there is nothing to say. In your post, you criticise them for rarely giving information, but also for being too vague. Those two things are basically polar opposites. If they have nothing to report, they can either say nothing at all - which by your account isn't good - or they can give vague remarks, which by your account isn't good either. Well, what exactly are they supposed to do if neither option is good?

This game has way more frequent DLCs than most strategy games, and no, that's not because they are "easier to make" either. Yet some people freaked out when there had been little news two months after the last DLC came out every - single - time. And they also freak out when there is little news after it had been stated that there would be a break. By the look of things, you might think this game hasn't seen an update in two years or so and everyone is worried whether there will be anything new at all, instead of the five DLCs that have been released in in about one year, with multiple announcements for the future. There are very few games for which you can be sure that there will be more additional material than for this game.

Maybe it's just me, but from my experience with various developers of strategy games and their fan boards it seems like fans are getting way too demanding and entitled when it comes to this stuff. Developers develop things, which they then offer to customers so they can buy it. But somehow this gets twisted on the head, and fans demand that developers cater to their wishes and push these DLCs out as an endless stream, with no regard to those who have to develop them. As if the fans are the ones who get to decide when something is supposed to come out. You don't see this with movies or new songs / albums. The artist gets to decide when he is comfortable to release new stuff, or tell people about it. It is neither useful nor particularly motivating for someone to get berated all the time, just because they dare not to constantly inform someone who isn't entitled to get any information in the first place. Keeping people updated is a nice bonus, if you have the time to do it and enough stuff to talk about. It is not in any way mandatory to do so just because some people think they deserve it.

I can understand wanting to see new stuff, I'd love to hear about the upcoming releases as well, but it's hardly like they are purposefully sitting on things they could tell us. No company just twiddles its thumps instead of giving out information that is available and which would be beneficial for them. It's been less than four months since the last DLC, for most games you wouldn't even have heard about the next expansion yet, and you definately wouldn't have gotten any information that went beyond being extremely vague either.

Maybe it's because IT-development is my field of work as well, but to me this impatience in regard to new material just feels odd. The last thing you want, is for developers to feel pressured to get something done quickly, because that rarely turns out well. Doing so usually results in cutting corners or doing something quick and dirty. That might not always even be an issue on first glance, but it can come back to bite you later on.

[charge62]

To sum up George_Parr's explanation - developers have lives too.

[Bee1976]

One thing that is pretty obvious is that Kerensky hasn't posted for 2 months or so.

But he is monitoring the forums, nearly every day.

Last active:31 Oct 2021 08:39

from his forums profile He is reading.

And well its a strange asumption that kerensky IS the only member of the team "Axis Operations". Of course they are more than 1 person. You need coders, content creators, localisation, pixel pushers, and so on.


---------------------------

Its no surprise that we wont see any new AO DLC in 2021. It was said weeks ago in a tea time that there are no plans for AO43 in 2021. (First or second new season tea time). Pacific DLC never got a release date or a timeframe in which quarter it will be released. Latest and only information: "soon"

But im pretty sure we will get a patch for PC2 in the next ~10 days

Unfortunately, we haven't been able get a patch out in time to make significant changes to how scoring works for the upcoming Round 2, but we'll have an update out before Round 3 starts to allow us to address some of the well vocalized issues.

source: posting.php?mode=quote&f=58&p=945191

And round 3 starts on 10th November

Hopefully this is "the big patch" we all wait for and not just a tiny multiplayer and tournament related balance patch, but at least we will get a patch soon

[adiekmann]

They made a specific statement that there would be a break coming up for the AO-DLCs. They didn't define the exact length of the break, nor is it customary to do so. That didn't stop people from complaining about a lack of information for the next AO-DLC less than two months later, as if the people who complained couldn't be bothered to check the last statements that had been made.

So does this mean the release of the Pacific DLC is no longer on schedule for a 2021 release either? Now that does surprise me, since it's being made by other people.

There has never been any word on when the Pacific DLC would come out. You can't say that something is no longer scheduled for 2021 when there was never any statement that said it was scheduled for 2021 in the first place. People just jumped to conclusions and assumed that the Pacific DLC would fill the void that the break of the AO-DLCs would cause. One cannot hold a developer responsible for things he never said. Maybe it could be argued that it would have been beneficial for Slitherine to make it abundantly clear that the next release would take a while, but it is hardly unusual to keep things vague when dealing with something entirely new, like the Pacific campaign.

Actually, this isn't true. I think it was Rudenkort who said in the Twitch anniversary broadcast in July that the Pacific DLC will be this year, but no new AO until 2022. I speculated that it would be released in December for the holidays. I still believe that. Yes, it is total speculation, but I still think the December 14th announcement will in fact be to announce the Pacific DLC. A big clue would be if the beta testing began in November, and if it does not...well, then I am wrong and will be the first to admit it. Maybe things happened that will further delay it, we will find out. We live in difficult and unique times.

I think the real frustration is that we've been told since July that a patch will be coming up "soon" to fix the various issues with the game and more specifically AO42. Kerensky seems to have finished his end of the patch in early August, so clearly something happened, or more likely, an assortment of things combined to delay it. New issues popped up; Multiplayer problems; problems that affected past DLCs; changes needed for the Pacific and other planned DLCs. It doesn't require a lot of imagination to envision a number of possibilities that could be in play. I trust that it will be worth it and that there are good reasons, as you point out, for the wait. Like you said, they may simply want/need the time to make sure all of their plans are done right and therefore not rushed. I hope indeed that is the case.

[Rhaeg]

so why not just be clear and say that development is on hiatus for a while.

You are assuming that this is the case, but an assumption is just that, an assumption. Why do you expect them to say something that might not be true?

Development has been on hiatus for a while, so it's a fact, not an assumption. It's all relative anyway, AO DLCs have been releasing at a steady tempo until this summer, so the hiatus is compared to that standard.

You thinking that progress is too slow and that it could only mean they aren't actively working on it, is in no way connected to what the developers are actually doing.

No, I do not think progress is too slow. What made you think that? I think the AO DLCs where being put out at a high pace. I just think that something is happening behind the scenes that made things slow down and I don't understand why that is even a matter of debate. It was stated a few months ago that the AO people needed a break. For as far as I know AO DLCs have been made by Kerensky, with the help of devs who create new unit models, textures and new mechanics such as the Spanish Civil War allied AI.

They made a specific statement that there would be a break coming up for the AO-DLCs. They didn't define the exact length of the break, nor is it customary to do so.

True.

That didn't stop people from complaining about a lack of information for the next AO-DLC less than two months later, as if the people who complained couldn't be bothered to check the last statements that had been made.

And where should people check these "last statements"? You cannot seriously expect every interested PC2 player to parse every sentence of the forums (that lack any sensible structure to begin with).

So does this mean the release of the Pacific DLC is no longer on schedule for a 2021 release either? Now that does surprise me, since it's being made by other people.

There has never been any word on when the Pacific DLC would come out. You can't say that something is no longer scheduled for 2021 when there was never any statement that said it was scheduled for 2021 in the first place. People just jumped to conclusions and assumed that the Pacific DLC would fill the void that the break of the AO-DLCs would cause. One cannot hold a developer responsible for things he never said. Maybe it could be argued that it would have been beneficial for Slitherine to make it abundantly clear that the next release would take a while, but it is hardly unusual to keep things vague when dealing with something entirely new, like the Pacific campaign.

adiekmann responded to that already just before this post.

Would it be nice to get a patch as quickly as possible to fix obvious issues, or to get a new DLC soon? Yes, but it isn't always obvious what dealing with these things includes.
Would it be nice for Slitherine to be a bit more forthcoming with information? Yes, but if there is nothing to say yet, then there is nothing to say. In your post, you criticise them for rarely giving information, but also for being too vague. Those two things are basically polar opposites. If they have nothing to report, they can either say nothing at all - which by your account isn't good - or they can give vague remarks, which by your account isn't good either. Well, what exactly are they supposed to do if neither option is good?

How are "rarely giving information" and "being vague" polar opposites? North and south are polar opposites, left and right, up and down... If there is nothing to report you can come with a clear and honest statement, like a variant of:

"We are taking a break from developing the next DLC to focus and catch up on various issues and improvements that our team and players have noticed/suggested. Please understand that the wait will be worth it once completed. Thank you for your patience."

This game has way more frequent DLCs than most strategy games, and no, that's not because they are "easier to make" either.

Agreed.

Yet some people freaked out when there had been little news two months after the last DLC came out every - single - time. And they also freak out when there is little news after it had been stated that there would be a break. By the look of things, you might think this game hasn't seen an update in two years or so and everyone is worried whether there will be anything new at all, instead of the five DLCs that have been released in in about one year, with multiple announcements for the future. There are very few games for which you can be sure that there will be more additional material than for this game.

Maybe it's just me, but from my experience with various developers of strategy games and their fan boards it seems like fans are getting way too demanding and entitled when it comes to this stuff. Developers develop things, which they then offer to customers so they can buy it. But somehow this gets twisted on the head, and fans demand that developers cater to their wishes and push these DLCs out as an endless stream, with no regard to those who have to develop them. As if the fans are the ones who get to decide when something is supposed to come out. You don't see this with movies or new songs / albums. The artist gets to decide when he is comfortable to release new stuff, or tell people about it. It is neither useful nor particularly motivating for someone to get berated all the time, just because they dare not to constantly inform someone who isn't entitled to get any information in the first place. Keeping people updated is a nice bonus, if you have the time to do it and enough stuff to talk about. It is not in any way mandatory to do so just because some people think they deserve it.

I can understand wanting to see new stuff, I'd love to hear about the upcoming releases as well, but it's hardly like they are purposefully sitting on things they could tell us. No company just twiddles its thumps instead of giving out information that is available and which would be beneficial for them. It's been less than four months since the last DLC, for most games you wouldn't even have heard about the next expansion yet, and you definately wouldn't have gotten any information that went beyond being extremely vague either.

Maybe it's because IT-development is my field of work as well, but to me this impatience in regard to new material just feels odd. The last thing you want, is for developers to feel pressured to get something done quickly, because that rarely turns out well. Doing so usually results in cutting corners or doing something quick and dirty. That might not always even be an issue on first glance, but it can come back to bite you later on.

I do not think this is directed at my post.

[Edmon]

Hey guys,

I have been on holiday (more or less) for the last 2 weeks so... that is why I have been a little more quiet than usual.

I will see if I can get you guys a little more specific information on when the next thing is coming... after all, I can't wait to have more Panzer Corps 2 on my own channel as well and I am looking forward to doing a limited units campaign once the transport fix is in.

Regards,
Edmon

[terminator]

I'm done!

I'll go back to PC1 and maybe try to convert some of the PC2 Scenarios for PC1.

Good idea but not as simple as it sounds...

[GUNDOBALDO08]

Hey guys,

I have been on holiday (more or less) for the last 2 weeks so... that is why I have been a little more quiet than usual.

I will see if I can get you guys a little more specific information on when the next thing is coming... after all, I can't wait to have more Panzer Corps 2 on my own channel as well and I am looking forward to doing a limited units campaign once the transport fix is in.

Regards,
Edmon

Wow, but how many holidays do you have at Slitherine?!? wow it's been more or less since July that you, Pat and Kerensky reappeared after weeks saying you were on vacation ...

[David Hansen]

PC2 has now been moved to the bottom of the forum list...hmmmm.

[Edmon]

Hey guys,

I have been on holiday (more or less) for the last 2 weeks so... that is why I have been a little more quiet than usual.

I will see if I can get you guys a little more specific information on when the next thing is coming... after all, I can't wait to have more Panzer Corps 2 on my own channel as well and I am looking forward to doing a limited units campaign once the transport fix is in.

Regards,
Edmon

Wow, but how many holidays do you have at Slitherine?!? wow it's been more or less since July that you, Pat and Kerensky reappeared after weeks saying you were on vacation ...

Never went on holiday at that time, this is my first 2 weeks off this year.

Also, 4 - 6 weeks off is very normal in Europe. At least 20 days is pretty much legally obligated in much of europe.

Just because things are quiet on the front end doesn't mean tons of work isn't going on in the background, after all pacific has been promised so of course development is ongoing...

[AlbertoC]

We are working on an update, we'll be in touch about it but it shouldn't take long now.

Other than that, as you know the team is developing Pacific we're not quite ready to reveal more about it, but we're getting there. Stay tuned, patience will be rewarded.

[Retributarr]

We are working on an update, we'll be in touch about it but it shouldn't take long now.

Other than that, as you know the team is developing Pacific we're not quite ready to reveal more about it, but we're getting there. Stay tuned, patience will be rewarded.

Thank's for the "Progress-Update"... its much appreciated!. It's a shame that the in-depth discussion and development of 'The Pacific Theatre'... doesn't seem at all to be presently happening on this particular 'Forum'... I think that we would have a lot to offer.

Anyway!... do you know why... 'We-Have-Lots-Of-Patience???'.... its because "We Never Use Any Of :It!"... as can be clearly seen by the Forum-Commentary here.

[PaxusZero]

We are working on an update, we'll be in touch about it but it shouldn't take long now.

Other than that, as you know the team is developing Pacific we're not quite ready to reveal more about it, but we're getting there. Stay tuned, patience will be rewarded.

Can we be both patient but impatient for a chance to beta test pacific?

[jeannot le lapin]

I hope the beta won’t be too short...