Moderators: hammy, philqw78, terrys, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Design, Field of Glory Moderators
Yes, they very successfully duffed up my Close fighters toostefoid wrote:The mixed formations are very flexible - protected, light spear, swordsmen in the front rank and protected bow swords in the back. Not fantastic, but not sucky either, and they fail to suck in a wide variety of situations.davem wrote:I did. Played Mittani, got trashed. The Lf shooting up my MF was the real kicker.
Unless the unprotected MF are armed with crossbows, in which case LF with bow are at an advantage when shooting, and the MF will not easily be able to extricate themselves from the situation either, other than charging the LF.hammy wrote: LF should not outshoot MF, even unprotected MF. It is a close run thing but with 8 MF vs 8 LF the MF should get 3 hits per volley (6 dice on 4+) and the LF should get 2 2/3 hits (4 dice on 3+). OK, it's close but in a straight shooting match there is a light advantage for the MF.
Very true but as there are no crossbows in StE and unprotected MF crossbow are a very rare troop type (actually I can't think of any off hand) it is no so much of an issue.Intothevalley wrote:Unless the unprotected MF are armed with crossbows, in which case LF with bow are at an advantage when shooting, and the MF will not easily be able to extricate themselves from the situation either, other than charging the LF.hammy wrote: LF should not outshoot MF, even unprotected MF. It is a close run thing but with 8 MF vs 8 LF the MF should get 3 hits per volley (6 dice on 4+) and the LF should get 2 2/3 hits (4 dice on 3+). OK, it's close but in a straight shooting match there is a light advantage for the MF.
Yes, sorry, my post was somewhat OT.hammy wrote: Very true but as there are no crossbows in StE
I think there are numbers of unprotected crossbowmen in the swords and scimitars book, and IIRC there's a medieval Spanish list with almost nothing but unprotected MF xbows (but they have the option to be LF for the faint-of-heart!). I also assume there'll be some in the feudal and Asian lists.hammy wrote: and unprotected MF crossbow are a very rare troop type (actually I can't think of any off hand) it is no so much of an issue.
There are only 2x4 "quality" infantry - ie armoured HF. The Nubians are a unit of superior LF bows. 8 HF and some good LF is not really something I'd like to build a game plan onhammy wrote:The LF shouldn't reliably shoot up your MF but it is possible.davem wrote:I did. Played Mittani, got trashed. The Lf shooting up my MF was the real kicker.
Mittani is a good army in StE, it is nice and flexible in terms of drilled or undrilled.
To me the good selling points of the NKE are the (for the period) quality infantry that you can have such as the guardsmen, Nubians and Sherden.
I tried it, but found that the ++ for impact foot was netted out by the way the clever shooty foot get a + at impact for javelins, and they then get 3 dice at 5's (2 front rank + 1 shooting) at impact = so its dead even at impact, and then sometimes you can be down in melee if they have front rank of armoured swordsmen.hammy wrote:The protected impact foot Sherden are not shabby either. In an army where all you have are impact foot they are not that good but with decent supports like the ones you find in the NKE list I think that 24 bases (or more likely 20 bases) of protected impact foot could upset all thse fancy wancy mixed shooty medium foot.
Sorry Hammy, but you're having a laugh right? I tried them and they were c**p. The Sea People (are they still in STE?) were a little more resiliant, but the Sherden/Libyan MF were just victims looking for their accident.hammy wrote:The protected impact foot Sherden are not shabby either. In an army where all you have are impact foot they are not that good but with decent supports like the ones you find in the NKE list I think that 24 bases (or more likely 20 bases) of protected impact foot could upset all thse fancy wancy mixed shooty medium foot.
Tim is right that the impact against the mixed MF is even so you have to hope to win and get the benefit from the extra -1.davem wrote:Sorry Hammy, but you're having a laugh right? I tried them and they were c**p. The Sea People (are they still in STE?) were a little more resiliant, but the Sherden/Libyan MF were just victims looking for their accident.hammy wrote:The protected impact foot Sherden are not shabby either. In an army where all you have are impact foot they are not that good but with decent supports like the ones you find in the NKE list I think that 24 bases (or more likely 20 bases) of protected impact foot could upset all thse fancy wancy mixed shooty medium foot.
True and that is the case with a lot of the biblical armies. It is very rare to have a POA at impact and in melee and double POAs are even rarer.madaxeman wrote:I'm still not convinced by an army where your best chance is to try and set up an "evens at impact" combat .....
Perhaps the NKE were just over rated in previous rules and should be crap.davem wrote: Sorry Hammy, but you're having a laugh right? I tried them and they were c**p. The Sea People (are they still in STE?) were a little more resiliant, but the Sherden/Libyan MF were just victims looking for their accident.
Then that would be "tail wagging the dog" surely?philqw78 wrote:Perhaps the NKE were just over rated in previous rules and should be crap.davem wrote: Sorry Hammy, but you're having a laugh right? I tried them and they were c**p. The Sea People (are they still in STE?) were a little more resiliant, but the Sherden/Libyan MF were just victims looking for their accident.
??davem wrote: Then that would be "tail wagging the dog" surely?
Vast amounts of gold manpower and food.I am not a scholar of Egyptian warfare, but if they were such crap fighters how did they build and maintain such a vast empire for so long and defeat enemies such as the Hyksos, Mittanni, Sea Peoples, Libyans etc? I haven't included the Hittites at Quadesh as we all know that was a loosing draw propagandized to a victory by Ramesses:-)
Economic strength certainly had it's part to play, but if you're the skinny nerd in the playground with the bag of sweets, what do you do when the Bully demands _all_ of them?philqw78 wrote:??davem wrote: Then that would be "tail wagging the dog" surely?
Suggesting the history matches the rules rather than the other way round.
Vast amounts of gold manpower and food.I am not a scholar of Egyptian warfare, but if they were such crap fighters how did they build and maintain such a vast empire for so long and defeat enemies such as the Hyksos, Mittanni, Sea Peoples, Libyans etc? I haven't included the Hittites at Quadesh as we all know that was a loosing draw propagandized to a victory by Ramesses:-)
Buy new, poisoned, ones for the next day..davem wrote:Economic strength certainly had it's part to play, but if you're the skinny nerd in the playground with the bag of sweets, what do you do when the Bully demands _all_ of them?philqw78 wrote:??davem wrote: Then that would be "tail wagging the dog" surely?
Suggesting the history matches the rules rather than the other way round.
Vast amounts of gold manpower and food.I am not a scholar of Egyptian warfare, but if they were such crap fighters how did they build and maintain such a vast empire for so long and defeat enemies such as the Hyksos, Mittanni, Sea Peoples, Libyans etc? I haven't included the Hittites at Quadesh as we all know that was a loosing draw propagandized to a victory by Ramesses:-)
Indeed.philqw78 wrote:If building empires was about being good in a fight even the ANZACS would have one, until they sobered up and realised they were still massively outnumbered.
I disagree actually. Having had two games with the NKE (and another next week) what I am finding is that the Light Chariots enable you to deliver your good stuff - i.e. the MF Protected IF. Most armies of the period have a substantial chunk of "rubbish bowmen". Given that you have in the main drilled troops you need to make sure that you maximise all your troops against these.NKE is not a bad army but equally it is not a super army. Against Libyans and Nubians it should do just fine, I suspect that Sea People won't be too much of a problem for them either.
IMO the key with NKE is to focus on the arm that was the historical battle winner - the chariots as unlike in DBM they are the best part of the army and need to be maximised not minimised like they used to be.
