Panzer Corps East - The struggle for Russia "Grand Strategy"

[4kEY]

About the only reason I can see for being shy around SS insignias is politcal correctness.

Iam the last person to worry about political correctness ...but since I dont have the corresponding big camo units for the unique units I feel that using big units here and insignias there is indeed interrupting the consistent look when opening the units panel...and inconsistency is something which is plaguing a lot of, even great, mods.
Every bit of incosistency is adding to the overall impression of "thrown" or "patched" -together...this is this vague feeling of a "makeshift solution" a lot of people get when they start playing mods (of whatever game or kind)..I try to avoid that as much as I can

You really feel that picture of the UI for the Tiger and Leibstandarte insignia has a 'thrown together' feel to it, as opposed to unnecessary novelty? I suppose I can respect that, though I thought that having different color Big Unit Png from the main icon was one of the shortcomings of previous SS mods. Adding the bigunit insignia is the only way to fix this other than reskinning the vanilla icon. Churchy has some units he skinned, both the primary and bigunit png are the same. They're older, but still very nice.

[4kEY]

Here are a few of his icons I mentioned earlier.

[Chris10]

Churchy has some units he skinned, both the primary and bigunit png are the same. They're older, but still very nice.

This is all nice but there are not enough units that I feel would fit wit (I have downloaded and taken a very close look to all camo series Churchy had done) for my purpose and using different graphical styles on units will makes things even more look cluttered up...there is no way around it.
I was thinking about using the vanilla SE BigUnits for the SS but again...there are no icons for Wespe,Hummel and all the anit-tank vehicles so it would only be another makeshift solution...
Insignias are cool..but only if there are all insignias. Same goes for camo big untis...
They are only cool if they match the specific camo of the specific unit and it has to be for all units...ground and air to achieve any sort of consistency...since this is not gonna happen until somebody like Bebro would make all the different camos skins and render each unit in 3d to have all the gameunits and biguntis in the same style I prefer to use vanilla icons...This way I can cover at least 98% of the big units and still there are some left (dunno how much right now..about 10 I think)
People may have varying opinions on this matter and be less critical than Iam...
Once this is released everybody can replace whatever icon/bigunit with what he likes

..........It makes my head ache with a sledgehammer on each side to try to think about how much mental work this took.

...eyyy...this no rocket science

[Chris10]

Ok..here a couple of screens to explain the upgrade and naming scheme a bit more indepth...

Screen 1
Unit name: sPz.Abt 501
Unit type: Panzer Regiment on Panzer VI-E Tiger (50 Tanks...well...45 + Command vehicle...we dont wanna become bean counters )
Screen 2
Tiger II Equipment becomes available.
This informs you that you can upgrade the 501 to Tiger II if you want/can
but since Tiger II is only for choosen units it is nopurchase for regular Wehrmacht units
hence it is not shown in Screen3 (little trick as normally nopurchase units do not appear in the new equipment window )
By the time Tiger II becomes available only other tanks still in production are Panzer IV-H and Panter G and up for purchase.
Since the units names will be Pz.Reg.xxxx (the others in the screen will change before release) you have to navigate by camo scheme and long name which shows what upgrade is the correct one.
In this case: sPz.Abt. 501 PzKpfw. VI Ausf.B Tiger II > Screen 4. As well the price will show if its the correct
upgrade or not since internal divisional upgrades will be at very low cost. (between 80-100)
After upgrade the unit type changes while the Unit Number is still s.Pz.Abt. 501 > Screen 5

Screen 1


Screen 2


Screen 3


Screen 4


Screen 5

[Chris10]

When in the middle of a scenario, with many units yet to move, it is more efficient to be able to quickly see, on the fly, which hero abilities are embedded in each unit without having to go:
right click on a unit,
click on Battle History, and
hover over each Hero or click on them.
If you have to do 3 mouse clicks for all unmoved units that have a Hero, it becomes time consuming. Some players are renaming units with Hero abilites (i.e. A2,S1, D1) to achieve this "quick view." Far better to have Hero data viewable on the UI with just a quick mouse over function.

I understand where you are coming from. I have looked into this and found that there is already enough space to display the three hero slots underneath the minimap....I managed to display another panel there...as well I know which functions call the hero display and where it is located...as well Iam almost positive that the hero panel can be displayed on the main UI... unfortunately I dont know enough about html coding to write a query function in javascript which would call this diplay from the html file where it is located and diplay it on the screen once a unit is clicked...I would need assistance of somebody who is really firm in html coding

[Chris10]

At the moment I continue to fiddle around with the UI in order to adjust it nicely to the new enviroment
Took me 3 days staring at the html files to find the entrys which I had to change and/or remove
This html crap is a complete black hole for me
Compare vanilla display with new UI...
Unit insignias are completely shown and not cut off anymore and I removed the redundant unit type info after unit name which results in the unit holders not pushed to the side anymore cause the unit name becomes overly long
VANILLA UI

NEW UI

[airbornemongo101]

All I can say is WOW.

This mod shouldn't be named Panzer Corps East.

It should be called PZC 2.

Great Job Chris...Great Job

P.S,
.......Ummm ,what in the world is an html ,,,is that a new tank

[naughtybalrog]

+1000!
I agree with Mongo and feel somehow guilty not paying you for this excellent work...

[Chris10]

All I can say is WOW.
This mod shouldn't be named Panzer Corps East.
It should be called PZC 2.
Great Job Chris...Great Job

thnx Bob..still has to proove to work properly though

P.S,
.......Ummm ,what in the world is an html ,,,is that a new tank

yep..thats the brain breaker tank

+1000!
I agree with Mongo and feel somehow guilty not paying you for this excellent work...

thnx Balrog...but why would you feel guilty ?...I try to bring to life my ol Panzer General dream and Iam
happy if others share my vision and the fun which it hopefully brings

[flakfernrohr]

All I can say is WOW.

thnx Balrog...but why would you feel guilty ?...I try to bring to life my ol Panzer General dream and Iam
happy if others share my vision and the fun which it hopefully brings

It's funny but I have had the same dream for many many years, maybe even since lots of members of the forum were wearing disposable pants LOL. My wife says I am like a little boy with Panzer Corps. But there was never a game vehicle that was up to allowing my dream of a tremendous expansion and fantasy continuation of the war with Russia before PzC. In the fall of last year I made a large group of detailed maps going from Kursk to the Urals and was in the process of making the scenarios when I got sidetracked and then you came along and did it so much better. First I did them with vanilla tiles, then Massi's first mod and now am reworking them with his second outstanding mod. I still have my maps (22 of them) and my scenario parimeters that I can play when I get them all set up. But your work, Chris, surpasses ANYTHING I have done or would even aspire to do like an ME262 flies by a Sopwith Camel. Even the "jet wash" is tremendous. Just no comparison. Thanks for doing this. Now I will have my cake and get to eat it too with an extra helping of icing and a cherry on top.

Rezaf and I are working on a group of icons that will go very nicely with this expansion (or any part of PzC), especially if the war continues past May, 1945.

[guille1434]

This mod would be indeed be called PzC 2... Thanks Chris!!!!

Flak: waiting eagerly for yours and rezaf´s "WWII 1946" icons!

This game is always getting better!

[Chris10]

Some last moment units who really deserve to be in:

8,8 flak 41 (INI:10, AIR ATTACK: 19) TRANSPORT SDKFZ:7, NO AT MODE, FLAK EXCLUSIVE , MAX SERVICE: JAN 1945 - 318 GUNS
10,5 flak 38 (INI: 12 AIR ATTACK: 20) NO TRANSPORT, ONLY RAIL, SHIP TRANSPORT, NO AT MODE, FLAK EXCLUSIVE, OVER 2600 BUILD

The 10,5cm 38 flak was the backbone of city defense and the default AA mount on flaktowers and flak perimeters around important areas.
According Wehrmacht records 1911 guns in service in Dec 1944.

Thnx Guille1434 for the new 12,8 icon...

[guille1434]

Yes Chris! The 8,8 Flak 41 and 10,5 Flak 38 are units that deserved to be represented in game... I will try to make acceptable icon units for thos two guns (the 10.5 looked rather like the 12.8 (this refering to the gun itself, I have to check about its base, I suppose it was not like the 12.8, but similar to the 8.8 Flak)

About the stats, and take this as only a humble opinion, may be you can re-check them... I read that one of the main reasons that the 10.5 cm Flak was not produced in great numbers, was that it was marginally better tyhan the 8.8 Flak36/37 then in service when it was introduced... so, if the 8.8 Flak 41 was ballistically better than the Flak37, I think the values of the 10.5 may be placen inbetween the 8.8 cm Flak37 and Flak 41 (more closer to the Flak 36 than to the Flak 41). About the 8.8 Flak 41, I dont know if it is "correct" not to give it an AT mode... if you see photos of this gun, the mounting was much lower than the Flak 37 and the reason was, precisely, that the previous model revealed as a very good AT weapon, so the designers wanted to give the new weapon an advantage in this role, making it lower, and easier to camuflage or to be dug in the battlefield.

About the mobility of guns, I agree with you... I did not give the 12.8 guns mobility by themselves (movement = 0) but, yes, gave them transports (and this only because if not, they can be used only as defensive weapons... Which, thinking twice about it, it should be the correct thing! The field version of the 12.8 Flak was rejected by the german army because of its weight (26 tons!). The problem (if it can be considered so) that giving this unit only rail transport, they can only be moved between town hexes and only positioned in them, and supposing that you want to make a defensive perimeter around a given city, you could deply the gun only in the city hex, when it is possible that you may find that the best defensive positioning would be the gun adyacent to the city hex, and the city itsef being occupied by an infantry unit.

By the way, I am very glad you considered the 12.8 Flak icon good enough to be included in your mod! Thanks!

Just thinking in loud voice... Obviously, you can do whatever you consider correct with your mod.

[Chris10]

Yes Chris! The 8,8 Flak 41 and 10,5 Flak 38 are units that deserved to be represented in game... I will try to make acceptable icon units for thos two guns (the 10.5 looked rather like the 12.8 (this refering to the gun itself, I have to check about its base, I suppose it was not like the 12.8, but similar to the 8.8 Flak)

About the stats, and take this as only a humble opinion, may be you can re-check them... I read that one of the main reasons that the 10.5 cm Flak was not produced in great numbers, was that it was marginally better tyhan the 8.8 Flak36/37 then in service when it was introduced... so, if the 8.8 Flak 41 was ballistically better than the Flak37, I think the values of the 10.5 may be placen inbetween the 8.8 cm Flak37 and Flak 41 (more closer to the Flak 36 than to the Flak 41). About the 8.8 Flak 41, I dont know if it is "correct" not to give it an AT mode... if you see photos of this gun, the mounting was much lower than the Flak 37 and the reason was, precisely, that the previous model revealed as a very good AT weapon, so the designers wanted to give the new weapon an advantage in this role, making it lower, and easier to camuflage or to be dug in the battlefield.

About the mobility of guns, I agree with you... I did not give the 12.8 guns mobility by themselves (movement = 0) but, yes, gave them transports (and this only because if not, they can be used only as defensive weapons... Which, thinking twice about it, it should be the correct thing! The field version of the 12.8 Flak was rejected by the german army because of its weight (26 tons!). The problem (if it can be considered so) that giving this unit only rail transport, they can only be moved between town hexes and only positioned in them, and supposing that you want to make a defensive perimeter around a given city, you could deply the gun only in the city hex, when it is possible that you may find that the best defensive positioning would be the gun adyacent to the city hex, and the city itsef being occupied by an infantry unit.

By the way, I am very glad you considered the 12.8 Flak icon good enough to be included in your mod! Thanks!

Just thinking in loud voice... Obviously, you can do whatever you consider correct with your mod.

My reasoning behind the 8,8 41 only AA is that the gun hasnt been used as AT..so it has no field history...this was due to its complicated mechanism which was prone to malfunction and the need of well trained crews and technicians close by...so the gun was only used in the Reich and only as AA. Giving all these guns (8.8/41 10.5 and 12. AT mode makes them exploits and does not model very well their usage.

The 10.5 and 12.8 will have 1 movement..so they can move on their own but not mobile for the field with transports..this models the stationary character of the guns and no AT makes them useless as offensive guns (they become available pretty early) and they never have been used as AT anyway...They can however be transported to other citys by rail (if there is a rail of course). I ignore weird experiments of making them mobile and I do ignore isolated cases were crews may have been fireing on approaching enemy tanks before abandon the position.

As for the air attack the scheme is pretty simple and set by the frame in between the vanilla 8,8 and the 12,8
8.8 has INI 9 , AA 18
8.8/1 has INI 10, AA 19
10,5 has INI 12, AA 20
12,8 has INI 13, AA 21
This is a plausible and convincing scheme..the 10.5 could deliver more explosive into same altitude than the 8.8 which prooved less effective against the resistant B-17 since its explosive shells had only an effective radius of 10m when exploding.
As for a INI jump of 2 between 8,8/41 and 10.5...the 10.5 was powered electrically and had an automatic loading mechanism and when connected to a radar could automatically roughly lock on target...

[airbornemongo101]

The 105 mm Flak was the premier Flak gun used by both the Luftwaffe and Heer Flak units guarding the Reich

The radar was used to get the bearing and altitude and then a gun director would formulate fire patterns and send "grids" to the batteries.

The guns would then fire a pre-determined "grid" ,by platoon (4 guns).

My grandfather's best friend was a ball turret gunner on a B-24. I spent alot of time both as a kid and adult just listening to him talk about the air war.

He said he hated Flak. He said that they lost alot of aircraft to flak and while flying thru it you just had to sit and take it..and pray.

He said fighters you could at least fight back against,but flak you would just pray.

He did alot of research himself and even took trips to Germany ,Austria,Italy and Romania (he flew alot of missions) after the war and found out what flak units he had flown over inbound and outbound on missions and guess what guns the units that were the most succesfull at shooting down bombers were armed with....the 10.5cm.

So it deserves it's buff in stats and I'm glad you included it and embarrassed that I never did.


.

[VPaulus]

Thanks for sharing your story, Bob. It gives a human touch.

[Chris10]

The 105 mm Flak was the premier Flak gun used by both the Luftwaffe and Heer Flak units guarding the Reich
The radar was used to get the bearing and altitude and then a gun director would formulate fire patterns and send "grids" to the batteries.
The guns would then fire a pre-determined "grid" ,by platoon (4 guns).
My grandfather's best friend was a ball turret gunner on a B-24. I spent alot of time both as a kid and adult just listening to him talk about the air war.
He said he hated Flak. He said that they lost alot of aircraft to flak and while flying thru it you just had to sit and take it..and pray.
He said fighters you could at least fight back against,but flak you would just pray.
He did alot of research himself and even took trips to Germany ,Austria,Italy and Romania (he flew alot of missions) after the war and found out what flak units he had flown over inbound and outbound on missions and guess what guns the units that were the most succesfull at shooting down bombers were armed with....the 10.5cm.
So it deserves it's buff in stats and I'm glad you included it and embarrassed that I never did.

thnx Bob...


Just to imagine a bit the extension of the losses: The allies lost 100.000 men only in the Bomber War.
Allies were lucky that the impact fuse for AA shells of all calibres (8,8 , 10,5 and 12,8) was only introduced in beginning of 1945 since it tripled instantly the downings of allied bombers. Before 1945 all AA shells only used a time fuse according to aiming altitude and thousands and thousands of AA shells were smashing their way thru allied bombers without exploding since the time hasnt run out, so they only punched holes into the hull without causing to much damage...
Technically it would not have been a problem to introduce the double fuse (time/impact) 5 years earlier. Nobody really knows why it didnt happen. It was not a ressource problem and there was an official demand of the german army ordnance office to proceed with the implementation but it didnt happen until 1945. If the double fuse shells were introduced in 1940 the impact on the bomber war could have been dramatic

[valhain]

Hi All,

This looks amazing!

A couple of questions, well 3 (soz if posted before)

1 Will this be fully playable as the Soviets?

2 Can you give us an estimate of units in the game? At (guessing by your screenshots) 5 per motorized/grenadier/panzer and 4 per infantry, plus supporting, that's quite a lot!

3 ETA?

Cheers!

[Chris10]

Hi All,
This looks amazing!
A couple of questions, well 3 (soz if posted before)
1 Will this be fully playable as the Soviets?
2 Can you give us an estimate of units in the game? At (guessing by your screenshots) 5 per motorized/grenadier/panzer and 4 per infantry, plus supporting, that's quite a lot!
3 ETA?
Cheers!

Thnx for your interest Valhain...glad to see poeple joining the forum to post in here
As for yor questions
1. Since the game is build around the german side, involving heavy scripting, it wont be playable from the soviet side...it would break the game and iam afraid its impossibe to set it up to be playable from both sides...this would require a far more sofisticated engine
2. Only SS and Grossdeutschland are 4 units = Division (this to model their superior combat value and status)..some immersion reasons too
but yeah..there will be a few units on the screen ...Estimated unit count including minors, air wings and naval for axis side: aprox 350-400
3. Iam still building the source and assets....have a look at the finish-o-meter at bottom in first post...really no idea...this is really a very big project for one person

[deducter]

In terms of game mechanics, the INI of AA guns has no effect on their performance against planes. Also, AA differential of only 18 to 21 is trivial; I doubt you'll notice too much of a difference in their performance.