Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

[devoncop]

So the Seleucids have decided to declare war on Arabia and Egypt and her ally Carthage and ally with Judea.

A little disappointing this happened while the Roman player is away for two weeks helping with the hurricane but it is what it is.....

The Saka continue to resist despite being hammered by attacks from both the Seleucids and the Antigonids and a large Judean pirate fleet is sunk by the Egyptian navy off the Levant.

Scouting/tourist boats from the Antigonids and Picts continue harass local aquatic life along the Egyptian coastline.

A Red Sea fleet is created by Egypt to clean Qataban pirates away from Sabaean coastal areas and it is hoped that this will be accomplished soon.

Jerusalem remains under siege as the Judeans have failed to propose peace, presumably confident that their protectors will extricate them from their current issues. In this they are probably correct given the timing.

[loki100]

...

An excellent use of Judean money may be the establishment of a festival.....in Edinburgh maybe....

It can be a shining beacon of alternative comedy and bizarre theatre.

(Much like Judea herself)

well it seems to be an attractive plan - this turn they have sent us more money and the first installment of a tourist industry - all this due to the efforts of a single pirate ship commanded by a known coward.

[devoncop]

...

An excellent use of Judean money may be the establishment of a festival.....in Edinburgh maybe....

It can be a shining beacon of alternative comedy and bizarre theatre.

(Much like Judea herself)

well it seems to be an attractive plan - this turn they have sent us more money and the first installment of a tourist industry - all this due to the efforts of a single pirate ship commanded by a known coward.

[jimwinsor]

So the Seleucids have decided to declare war on Arabia and Egypt and her ally Carthage and ally with Judea.

I only declared war on Arabia, which lead to Egypt DOWing me as as an ally. Only. As far as I know I’m at peace with Carthage and other Egyptian allies due to the no-chain-alliance-DOW rule. I certainly have no issues with those allies, nor any desire to have anything but friendly relations with them.

The Seleucids allied with Judea a couple turns ago, and merely seek to register our disapproval at the original Arabian DOW which started this whole affair, and to redress what we see as a balance of power problem in the region. Let the negotiations with Judea continue, bearing in mind a large force of phalanges and elephants, toughened veterans from the India campaign, is about to enter the AO.

[devoncop]

Egypt thanks the Seleucids for the "clarification" .

What exactly do the Seleucids see as "redressing the balance of power ?"

[jimwinsor]

Egypt thanks the Seleucids for the "clarification" .

What exactly do the Seleucids see as "redressing the balance of power ?"

Seeking a peace that makes both Judea and Egypt happy. Or, at the very least, equally unhappy.

[jimwinsor]

The Saka continue to resist despite being hammered by attacks from both the Seleucids and the Antigonids and a large Judean pirate fleet is sunk by the Egyptian navy off the Levant.

Saka has requested peace, and we are unhurriedly considering our response. I can’t speak for the Antigonids, but If the offer is still on the table next turn, I’m likely to graciously accept, depending on how certain border adjustment operations go this turn. Being completely shooed out of Hyrcania, and the peaceful division of Bactria, being our main interests here.

[devoncop]

Well a Seleucid total conquest of both Judea and Egypt would achieve the latter aim......

Don't take a job as a social worker Jim.....your "reassurance skills" need a bit of work

[jimwinsor]

Well a Seleucid total conquest of both Judea and Egypt would achieve the latter aim......

Don't take a job as a social worker Jim.....your "reassurance skills" need a bit of work

Ugh, too much hassle!

[Geffalrus]

Now that operations are wrapping up in Persia, the Antigonid Expeditionary Force is on it's way back to Cilicia to join with the Antigonid fleet and Army Group Central. As the Guardians of Peace, we are very interested in resolving the Judean-Ptolemaic conflict in a way that maintains Judean territorial integrity.

[Yaitz331]

Now that operations are wrapping up in Persia, the Antigonid Expeditionary Force is on it's way back to Cilicia to join with the Antigonid fleet and Army Group Central. As the Guardians of Peace, we are very interested in resolving the Judean-Ptolemaic conflict in a way that maintains Judean territorial integrity.

What a coincidence! Judea ALSO has interest in a peace that maintains Judean territorial integrity!

And also one that guarantees Ptolemy will no longer break peacekeeping deals made with Judea.

[devoncop]

Propose a peace. I will accept and furthermore instruct Arabia through the diplo options to make peace with Judea and the Seleucids.

Not sure what more I can offer.....

[Yaitz331]

Propose a peace. I will accept and furthermore instruct Arabia through the diplo options to make peace with Judea and the Seleucids.

Not sure what more I can offer.....

Here is Judea's proposal:

1. Judea is given back all regions it controlled prior to this war.
2. Ptolemy returns to the former deal with Judea to not interfere in Judean-Arabian affairs in the absence of a Judean attempt to take the Arabian capital.
3. Petra will be restored to Nabatea (Ptolemy will abandon it), but the Sinai province will be given to Judea to act as a buffer should Ptolemy attempt to attack Judea again. Judea will not place any regular forces in Sinai. Judea may raise forces in Sinai or march forces through Sinai, but no Judean army may remain in Sinai for more then one turn without relocating to a permitted area.
4. Judea will not take any regions whatsoever on the continent of Africa, even independent ones, nor will it take any provinces on the Red Sea coast other then the Sinai province and one region from Arabia.
5. Judea will not create any fleet on the Red Sea, so as not to threaten Ptolemy's naval forces there.
6. Ptolemy will not intervene in any Judean actions outside of Africa, the Red Sea coast, and any regions under Ptolemy's control as of the signing of this deal (other then those to be given to Judea).
7. Seleucus will keep all regions taken by them prior to the signing of the peace.

[devoncop]

Propose a peace. I will accept and furthermore instruct Arabia through the diplo options to make peace with Judea and the Seleucids.

Not sure what more I can offer.....

Here is Judea's proposal:

1. Judea is given back all regions it controlled prior to this war.
2. Ptolemy returns to the former deal with Judea to not interfere in Judean-Arabian affairs in the absence of a Judean attempt to take the Arabian capital.
3. Petra will be restored to Nabatea (Ptolemy will abandon it), but the Sinai province will be given to Judea to act as a buffer should Ptolemy attempt to attack Judea again. Judea will not place any regular forces in Sinai. Judea may raise forces in Sinai or march forces through Sinai, but no Judean army may remain in Sinai for more then one turn without relocating to a permitted area.
4. Judea will not take any regions whatsoever on the continent of Africa, even independent ones, nor will it take any provinces on the Red Sea coast other then the Sinai province and one region from Arabia.
5. Judea will not create any fleet on the Red Sea, so as not to threaten Ptolemy's naval forces there.
6. Ptolemy will not intervene in any Judean actions outside of Africa, the Red Sea coast, and any regions under Ptolemy's control as of the signing of this deal (other then those to be given to Judea).
7. Seleucus will keep all regions taken by them prior to the signing of the peace.

So let me get this right........

You lose a war after over expanding.

You then expect not to return to prewar borders but to gain a whole Province from the nation you were losing the war to plus be allowed to overrun the regions belonging to its allies.......

In exchange Judea agrees not to advance into Africa.......thousands of miles away........gee thanks

Egypt proposes immediate peace on current borders.

To reassure Judea Egypt will not station any forces in Nabatea Palaestina or Sinai Provinces.



If Judea and the Seleucids are serious about the offer Judea has just made then Egypt will just await the arrival of Seleucid troops in Alexandria as it is better to be conquered in war than submit to such ludicrous terms. What Judea and the Seleucids do need to realise however is that the entire Egyptian effort will only be concentrated against them and any regions they overrun will be decadence gaining wastelands. If other nations intervene (I am looking at you Antigonids ) then they will face no opposition and the Seleucids and Judea will find the game is over long before they reap any benefit from such tactics........

Egypt will leave the choice to the Seleucids..(as it it has long been evident that there is a monkey and an organ grinder in play here )

[ledo]

Just stopped by to say I'm enjoying this quite detailed negotiation thoroughly.

[Yaitz331]

So let me get this right........

You lose a war after over expanding.

You then expect not to return to prewar borders but to gain a whole Province from the nation you were losing the war to plus be allowed to overrun the regions belonging to its allies.......

In exchange Judea agrees not to advance into Africa.......thousands of miles away........gee thanks

Egypt proposes immediate peace on current borders.

To reassure Judea Egypt will not station any forces in Nabatea Palaestina or Sinai Provinces.

So let ME get this straight.

You sign a deal with Judea, and then break the deal unilaterally and without cause.

You and your minions then overrun Judea, capturing half of its regions, including large chunks of its homeland.

Then, once a friend of Judea joins the war, you expect to retain all of the regions you and your minions captured.

This is ludicrous. You will never reap benefit from an unjust war. You have started this war unjustly, and now wish to end it unjustly. You wish to keep all of your ill-gotten gains, and suffer none of the consequences of war.


Judea's absolute minimum, beyond which it will never budge no matter what the circumstances, are a return to prewar borders, a return to the Judean-Ptolemaic deal about Arabia, and some Ptolemaic concessions to atone for his deal-breaking and to guarantee he will never again break a good-faith deal.
And given that the imminent arrival of Seleucid troops is a grave danger for Ptolemy, it is only right for him to give additional concessions to avoid defeat at the hands of Seleucus.

If Judea and the Seleucids are serious about the offer Judea has just made then Egypt will just await the arrival of Seleucid troops in Alexandria as it is better to be conquered in war than submit to such ludicrous terms.

It is better to be conquered in war then to submit to a wicked nation conducting an unjust war.

What Judea and the Seleucids do need to realise however is that the entire Egyptian effort will only be concentrated against them and any regions they overrun will be decadence gaining wastelands. If other nations intervene (I am looking at you Antigonids ) then they will face no opposition and the Seleucids and Judea will find the game is over long before they reap any benefit from such tactics........

The entire Egyptian war effort has not dissuaded Judea from conducting a just war alone, and it will not dissuade Judea from conducting a just war with allies.

Egypt will leave the choice to the Seleucids..(as it it has long been evident that there is a monkey and an organ grinder in play here )

Yes indeed. The organ grinder of Arabia has drawn the Ptolemaic monkey into their unjust war of aggression against Judea.

[devoncop]

Ptolemy will await a response from the Judean string puller.....

[Morbio]

Judea's absolute minimum, beyond which it will never budge no matter what the circumstances, are...

Are these 'Red Lines' I detect? I think I see parallels with the real world and can see what is coming...

[Geffalrus]

Oh is that my cue?

Alright, as one of the most recent.........stewards.......of the land in question, I will offer this as a peace proposal compromise:

1) Judea is allowed to regain their original territory of Trichontis (spelling???) as well as the southernmost region of Syria. That region in Syria is home to crucial caravan and trade buildings.

2) The net result is that Judean control of Phoenicia and Syria shall be restored and maintained.

3) Ptolemy shall keep the region they gained near Gaza in southern Palestine as this is an objective for them. They shall also keep Petra.

4) Ptolemy shall make a generous financial contribution to the Judean coffers in payment for the Gazan land and the rights to Petra.

5) These concessions shall all be done in a spirit of good faith, and with the knowledge that borders can be adjusted later.

6) Judea shall have a free hand in acquiring territory in Palmyra and Saracina provinces. Nabatea and Arabia Deserta shall remain under the protection of Ptolemy. If Judea worries about border raids or invasions from those dwelling there, then they must do what all civilized nations do, and pay for a border guard army. This can be part of the negotiation of the actual size of the Ptolemaic monetary gift.

So has spoken the Lord of Anatolia, Macedon, and Thrace.

[Yaitz331]

Alright, as one of the most recent.........stewards.......of the land in question, I will offer this as a peace proposal compromise:

Judea's absolute minimum, beyond which it will never budge no matter what the circumstances, are a return to prewar borders, a return to the Judean-Ptolemaic deal about Arabia, and some Ptolemaic concessions to atone for his deal-breaking and to guarantee he will never again break a good-faith deal.

Judea wholeheartedly thanks Antigonus for his suggestion, but Judea must decline.

Are these 'Red Lines' I detect? I think I see parallels with the real world and can see what is coming...

Yeah, that's not happening.
At least, hopefully not.