New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

[Cunningcairn]

Kabill's Questions.

1) Whoever has the most provinces when only X number of players are remaining. - I agree with this suggestion and would suggest 5 players remaining.
2) How much have folks been using the option to raise armies of different types? - I like Morbio have a number of different armies and record them with my turn when I send it. An example is posted below. I would prefer to use multiple armies. I like option C which I interpret as follows. Each player is assigned a player faction army and each territory is assigned a territory default army (listed in rules). When defending a territory either the player faction army or the territory default army can be used. Defenders choice. When attacking the player has to use the player faction army.

Example of Turn Orders recording armies:

Turn 9 – 24 armies and 8 territories before combat and after build of existing territories

Ptolemaic 49 –1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC armies.
(1) Build 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army.
(2) Move1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army to Nabataea 48.

Ptolemaic 50 - 1 Nabataean, 1 Jewish 64BC to 6AD, and 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army.
(1) Build 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army.

Nabataea 48 – 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC
(1) Build 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army.

Jewish 47 - 1 Jewish Revolt 66AD to 135AD, 1 Ptolemaic 55BC to 30BC and 1 Jewish 64BC to 6AD armies.
(1) Build 1 Jewish 64BC to 6AD army.
(2) Move 1 Ptolemaic 55BC to 30BC army to Nabataea 48.

Antigonid 34 - 1 Antigonid army.
(1) Build 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army.

Antigonid 33 - 1 Antigonid, 1 Ptolemaic 55BC to 30BC and 2 Ptolemaic 320BC to 167BC armies.
(1) Build 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC arm
(2 Move 1 Ptolemaic 320BC to 167BC army to Antigonid 34.

Antigonid 32 - 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army.
(1) Build 1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army.
(2) Move1 Ptolemaic 166BC to 56BC army to Antigonid 34.

Bosporan 28 - 1 Bosporan 84BC to 11 BC army
(1) Build 1 Bosporan 84BC to 11 BC army.

East Med - 1 Ptolemaic 55BC to 30BC army.
(1) Move 1 Ptolemaic 55BC to 30BC army Jewish 47.

[gamercb]

I am a fault for not posting the battles early enough v cunningcairn and then getting my army wrong so I had to repost . We have one battle where he is hiding in a corner protected by mountains and it is taking a while to get there (how come I never got such favourable terrain with the option to deploy in the corner ) I am unlikely to beat him but if we call it a draw, I lose all my armies and he loses nothing. In the other battle I have been manouvring to counter the terrain which again favours him. This is a more even struggle though past experience says I am unlikely to win. If we call this a draw I will lose all armies again and he will lose nothing. I would like to try and take at least one army off him So if we can continue I would like to do so.

I would go for the option to finish the game when there are only 5 players left.

When attacking or defending you should be able to use either your Corp Army, or the Army associated with the province you are associated in. I find being a mainly pike army when you are fighting in wooded and broken ground to be very restrictive.

Whatever way you go if fine with me. Just having the opportunity to fight these battles has been good and I am not likely to be one of the last 5.

Colin

[Kabill]

So, some things.

Battle Deadlines
It looks like there's a lot of games that got started late this round and I'm reluctant to bring them all to a close prematurely. As such, I'm going to extend the battle deadline to 12pm GMT Sunday 15th June (i.e. midday this coming Sunday, UK time). That should hopefully give time to bring games to a close.

Moving forwards, I'm going to propose that the default battle period become 10 days, as I know I personally can struggle to finish games within a week especially where there are time differences are involved, and play is likely to be slower over the summer due to other commitments. I'll keep the 2 day turnaround time for order submission.

Order Submission
Please can all players re-submit their last set of orders to me by PM. I will need these so I can set up everything for the next turn. You should do this by the battle deadline time stated above, so I have all the information I need by then to be able to set up the following turn.

Victory Conditions
I'd also been thinking of 5 players as the end-of-game limit, which is about half of who will be left by the end of this turn. So I think we'll go with this.

As such, the victory conditions are now:
- If one player owns 1/2 or more of all provinces at the beginning of a turn, the are declared victor; or
- If five or fewer players remain in the game, the player with the most provinces at the start of the turn is declared the winner
- If, under either of those two conditions, two or more players are tied for victory, the campaign will continue until there is a single definitive victor

Army Choices
It seems there's a few players using the option to build other army types. I think I have figured out how I would deal with this (basically, I need a spreadsheet, which I'll need anyway). So it's something I'm happy to continue with. But I also quite like option C (and have figured out how to make that work better now). So I'm going to propose two options (plus a third variant) and would appreciate a vote for the system moving forwards (or an abstention if you don't care):

Option 1: Continue with extant system
- When building an army, you build a specific army type chosen from your core list or from the local province.
- If there is more than one army type present for a battle, the attacker chooses which will be used (both for the attacking army and the defending army).
- Where a battle results in partial loss of armies, non-core armies are depleted first.

Option 2: Core and local armies
- Armies have no specific type
- When attacking, the attacker may choose to use either their core list or the list local to the province they are attacking from.
- When defending, the defender may choose either their core list or the list local to the province they are defending.
- Both attacking and defending army lists should be stated with order submission (i.e. players should indicate for each province whether they will use the core or local army type to defend it that turn; and if they are launching attacks whether they are using their core or local army type to attack).

Option 3: Core and local armies plus sea landings
- As Option (2) above but attacks launched from a sea province may also use either the core army type or any army type local to a controlled province which borders the sea being attacked from. E.g. currently Ludendorf could use a British army list to attack me in Spain when landing troops from the North Sea
- (The idea behind this is, in particular, to make island provinces useful under the new system as otherwise they have no borders from which to launch attacks. But I also note that I have more to gain from this than some other players given my current position; so feel free to reject this if you think that's unreasonable.)

Sorry, that's all a lot of writing again. Thanks for your patience as I try and settle in!

[Cunningcairn]

I vote for option 3.

[Cunningcairn]

Kabill I am unable to send messages as the PM system appears to be malfunctioning. My last turns orders are as posted in my earlier post.

[gamercb]

I vote for option 3.

Colin

[Kabill]

Kabill I am unable to send messages as the PM system appears to be malfunctioning. My last turns orders are as posted in my earlier post.

Noted, thanks

[nyczar]

Hi Gents,

I am vacationing with family and just got a moment to read up on the groups thoughts.

I support 10 days for battles. I found myself sneaking turns one afternoon in the office because I was running up against the 7 day deadline and while it was somewhat exhilarating to be a rebel, it is not something i want to make a habit.

I like the idea of not tracking army lists and I like the creative thinking of option 3. One question on Option 3, however before i cast a vote: If i read it right, option 3 means that an island nation list, if not a core list, may only be used to attack a province neighboring a sea zone. However, is the island nation list was a players core list, it could be used anywhere.... Do i have this right?

Thanks.

[Ludendorf]

Yeah, I definitely support ten day games.

[Cunningcairn]

Yeah, I definitely support ten day games.

Snap!

[batesmotel]

I'm happy with option C but would add the proviso that IF no army type is specifically stated with attack/defend orders, then the choice defaults to the player's core type.

10 day battles definitely sounds good.

Chris

[Kabill]

Deadline Update
With apologies, I've arranged a last-minute vacation over Sunday-Monday which will clash with the previous deadline I specified. In the event that I have all results and previous orders in before I go, I will release the next turn then. Otherwise I will need to do it on Tuesday. So I'm happy for battles to continue until midday (GMT) on Tuesday if needed. Really very sorry for this - regular service will start as soon as I am back.

On that, I currently have the previous turn's orders from:
- Cunningcairn
- Ludendorf
- Nyczar
- bbogensc/paulmcneil (who will be taking over the Persians from next turn)
- batesmotel
- Myself

So I still need them from:
- Morbio
- Najanaja
- Nosy_Rat
- RagnarOneTooth
- gamercb

One question on Option 3, however before i cast a vote: If i read it right, option 3 means that an island nation list, if not a core list, may only be used to attack a province neighboring a sea zone. However, is the island nation list was a players core list, it could be used anywhere.... Do i have this right?

Yes, if it's your core list you can use it anywhere. E.g. As Rome, you can use Roman armies anywhere. However, if someone were to conquer one of your core Roman provinces, they could use a Roman army list to attack anywhere that borders the West or East Med. sea zones (because the Roman provinces border both.

I'm happy with option C but would add the proviso that IF no army type is specifically stated with attack/defend orders, then the choice defaults to the player's core type.

I apparently forgot to include this but I was also thinking the same.

[nyczar]

I am good with option three.

[Najanaja]

Carthage is defeated. I will leave the game this turn. Suggest any remnants become neutral/non-aligned.

[Cunningcairn]

(5) 4x4 gamercb (Antigonid) v cunningcairn Ptolemy34 (Ptolemaic 166BC) Ptolemaic win 11% to 50% losing no army

(3) 2x4 najanaja (Carthage HinA) v Ptolemy50 (Ptolemaic 166BC) Otolemaic win 19% to 61% losing no army

[batesmotel]

Area 20, Eturia (Rome 199 BC) 47% defeats Pyrrhus 60%, final casualties 24% so loss of one army.

Thanks for a great game.

Chris

[Kabill]

Ok folks, time for Turn 10

Orders Deadline:

Please submit orders by PM by 6pm GMT Thursday 18th July.

Notes:
- This turn sees the destruction of the British (paulmcniel), Pyrric (RagnarOneTooth) and Carthaginians (Najanaja) leaving 9 players in the game
- With bbogensc's withdrawal from the game, Persia will now be controlled by paulmcniel
- I have ruled that Nosy_Rat's inconclusive attack against Persia in Kappacodia 30 is aborted, with no armies lost on either side. This is an exceptional case: this was reported last week by bbogensc when the original battle deadline hit but before I had indicated any deadline extensions, which could plausibly have resulted in the game running to its conclusion. I've assumed here that the game stopped at that point but if it continued, please Nosy_Rat can you let me know?
- I have not received results from gamercb's attack against Cunningcairn in Lysimachid 33. If I receive a result before 5pm GMT tomorrow (Wednesday) then I will revise the map with the outcome, otherwise it will be ruled as a late finish with all attacking armies destroyed (which is what the map currently assumes).

Rules Changes:
In accordance with previous discussions, armies will no longer have a type. As such, you do not need to tell me what kind of army you are building (indeed, there is no need to tell me you are building at all - I will assume each province is building an army each turn as there is no reason not to). Instead:
- In your orders, tell me which core or local army type will defend each of your provinces. If you do not specify, I will assume the latest of your core army lists (i.e. the one with the latest start date).
- If you are attacking, tell me which core or local army type will be used to attack. Again, if you do not specify, I will assumes the latest of your core army lists.
- "Local" here refers to whatever lists are available to the province being defended/attacked from (i.e. the same ones you could choose to build from previously).
- If you attack using armies from more than one province, a local list from any of the attacking provinces may be used.
- If attacking from a sea zone, a local list from any adjacent controlled province may be used.

I hope that all makes sense. Let me know if you have any questions.

Campaign Map Turn 10.jpg (293.23 KiB) Viewed 3538 times

[Nosy_Rat]

- I have ruled that Nosy_Rat's inconclusive attack against Persia in Kappacodia 30 is aborted, with no armies lost on either side. This is an exceptional case: this was reported last week by bbogensc when the original battle deadline hit but before I had indicated any deadline extensions, which could plausibly have resulted in the game running to its conclusion. I've assumed here that the game stopped at that point but if it continued, please Nosy_Rat can you let me know?

Yep, no new turns were made there.

[Kabill]

Thanks for confirming. That decision will stand then.

[RagnarOneTooth]

Thanks for the games guys