Panzer Corps East - The struggle for Russia "Grand Strategy"

[VPaulus]

i surely don't need the DLC's when i can play this beauty.

Thats a huge compliment but the comparison is not very fair...
Lets not forget the DLCs are well played as a quick pasttime while here the strategic thinking on a continental scale
will play a major role...so playing a quick map in an hour break is not possible.
I think this should not be compared to regular PzC gameplay..its way deeper but still with the same simple engine.

Indeed, you cannot compare, Nico. It's not fair for the devs nor for Chris. In what grounds are you comparing with the DLC? It just doesn't make sense.

Two different approaches. I personally prefer the devs approach because I was never a grand strategy player. But I will try to play Chris mod. He definitely deserves the praises.
And who knows, maybe I'll become a grand strategy player.

[naturesheva]

Hi Chris~!

May I ask some questions here?

1.Will real heroes/generals appear in this map?
2.How long for one turn? 5-10 days?
3.I guess there might be a problem. Each turn, it will take around 10 minutes to watch AI's action.(just guess )
4.I think the most hard part for this Mod is the setting of the reinforcement, especially if you want to based on the history.

Generally, I'm really really looking forward on that~!! Your map could become a completed new game~!!

[deducter]

Oh, I don't know, you should give the DLCs more credit on the strategy front. GCs 43-45 with my mod is some of the most intense strategy gaming I've ever played. I've easily spent 30 min+ a turn just planning out my moves for some of the harder scenarios. And I've played my share of turn-based games, which I generally destroy pretty quickly and easily and hence I lose interest, but PzC's engine is surprisingly deep and complex once you get to know it.

[Chris10]

Hi Chris~!

May I ask some questions here?

1.Will real heroes/generals appear in this map?
2.How long for one turn? 5-10 days?
3.I guess there might be a problem. Each turn, it will take around 10 minutes to watch AI's action.(just guess )
4.I think the most hard part for this Mod is the setting of the reinforcement, especially if you want to based on the history.

Generally, I'm really really looking forward on that~!! Your map could become a completed new game~!!

Thnx for your endorsement
...Sure you can ask anything which crosses your mind...
1. Yes...have a look at first post...no Generals though since this is about heros...32+ german super air and tank aces from
the eastern front included...plus Romanian, Hungarian and Finnish air aces
2. I have 2 models prepared for testing to see what fits better...its either 12 days or 15 days a turn
3. You ever played Civilization II on a huge map with max Civilizations ?..It could take up to 10 minutes for the AI to process a turn
in the late game...yet millions were Civ addicts...you could turn the watch AI move/combat off but I guess you would loose track on whats happening on the front...anyway this is meant to be played slow like Hearts of Iron or War in the East
4. I have set up a system which could work very well and model the situation...its still only a game and never be 100% historical

[naturesheva]

Thnx for your endorsement
...Sure you can ask anything which crosses your mind...
1. Yes...have a look at first post...no Generals though since this is about heros...32+ german super air and tank aces from
the eastern front included...plus Romanian, Hungarian and Finnish air aces
2. I have 2 models prepared for testing to see what fits better...its either 12 days or 15 days a turn
3. You ever played Civilization II on a huge map with max Civilizations ?..It could take up to 10 minutes for the AI to process a turn
in the late game...yet millions were Civ addicts...you could turn the watch AI move/combat off but I guess you would loose track on whats happening on the front...anyway this is meant to be played slow like Hearts of Iron or War in the East
4. I have set up a system which could work very well and model the situation...its still only a game and never be 100% historical

Sounds great~!!
May I know a little bit about the system in the 4th point??

[deducter]

Civ2 only ever supported 7 civs max, and I never remember a turn taking 10 min unless the AI had hundreds of units to move (there was a max limit in that game, I forgot how many units it was). I did play an excellent mod called "Red Front" which is probably the best WWII-related Civ scenario ever released, for any of the Civ games.

You are probably thinking of either Civ3 or Civ4 taking 10 min+ a turn for huge maps with max civs. Towards the late game turns took a lot longer than 10 min to process.

[VPaulus]

I think it can take more than 10 minutes.
Razz have told me that that the Hbalck's huge maps (but not so huge as Chris maps) would take at least 5 minutes with each turn.
And the issue is not the size of the map but more the number of units.

[nikivdd]

I didn't say anything out of ordinary, did i? The DLC's are great add-ons for Panzer Corps.
But personally, when i can try out Chris' mod, i won't be thinking about playing the DLC's for quite a while.

[VPaulus]

I didn't say anything out of ordinary, did i? The DLC's are great add-ons for Panzer Corps.
But personally, when i can try out Chris' mod, i won't be thinking about playing the DLC's for quite a while.

But why bringing the DLC's subject specifically? Are you always with the DLC's on your mind?
Still don't get it. But anyway this is OT and it really doesn't matter.
Sorry Chris.

[airbornemongo101]

I didn't say anything out of ordinary, did i? The DLC's are great add-ons for Panzer Corps.
But personally, when i can try out Chris' mod, i won't be thinking about playing the DLC's for quite a while.

But why bringing the DLC's subject specifically? Are you always with the DLC's on your mind?
Still don't get it. But anyway this is OT and it really doesn't matter.
Sorry Chris.

[Chris10]

I didn't say anything out of ordinary, did i?

Of course not...dont you worry ...
I think we all perfectly understood what you meant..I only wanted to remind everybody that this and vanilla can not be compared as each have different approaches

But why bringing the DLC's subject specifically? Are you always with the DLC's on your mind?
Still don't get it. But anyway this is OT and it really doesn't matter.
Sorry Chris.

The comparison between the DLCs and this may arise naturally since both games focus on the campaign in the east so I dont see a problem with it..just wanted to remember that its a bit like apples and oranges...
As well I dont have any issue with talking about these things and if it goes OT..Who cares ? ...after all I update the first post according to progress and to be honest...nobody cares to read a 20+ pages topic entirely

And you, Bob ?...Whats wrong ? Everything fine here I think ...

I think it can take more than 10 minutes.
Razz have told me that that the Hbalck's huge maps (but not so huge as Chris maps) would take at least 5 minutes with each turn.
And the issue is not the size of the map but more the number of units.

Yeah..but a truckload or russian units are stationary and not all units move and attack each turn but often only move so I think the processing time will vary
I tried the big Market Garden scenario and it was running smooth and quick and it can actually be great fun to watch the AI turn too (if its in your spotting range) on such a great scale. You instantly get scared when a big chunk of AI units move towards a position from which you know you have to few units and they face destruction . I like this...its the feeling of the Fieldmarshall in his HQ getting the reports from all sectors and has to decide what to do...Going from there Iam not to concerned about the processing time...in order to understand the situation a person has to be able to see and follow what moves are going on otherwise you wont understand the map

[VPaulus]

The comparison between the DLCs and this may arise naturally since both games focus on the campaign in the east so I dont see a problem with it..just wanted to remember that its a bit like apples and oranges...

We all know that DLC is following the whole European theatre of war. Not only the East. In that regard there are some other mods that follow exclusively the east campaign and it would work better as a comparison.

Yeah..but a truckload or russian units are stationary and not all units move and attack each turn but often only move so I think the processing time will vary
I tried the big Market Garden scenario and it was running smooth and quick and it can actually be great fun to watch the AI turn too (if its in your spotting range) on such a great scale. You instantly get scared when a big chunk of AI units move towards a position from which you know you have to few units and they face destruction . I like this...its the feeling of the Fieldmarshall in his HQ getting the reports from all sectors and has to decide what to do...Going from there Iam not to concerned about the processing time...in order to understand the situation a person has to be able to see and follow what moves are going on otherwise you wont understand the map

I guess we will only know in the end. And I don't know how far if it will also depend in how the scenario is build.

[Chris10]

Civ2 only ever supported 7 civs max, and I never remember a turn taking 10 min unless the AI had hundreds of units to move (there was a max limit in that game, I forgot how many units it was).

Civ II global unit limit was 2048 and turns took even more than 10 minutes on huge maps in a late game with max Civs as each Civilization had probably hundreds of units and when there was war...urggg.
The Playstation II version was even slower than the PC version
As well there is a mod called Civ II UNLIMITED which removes/raises a lot of the global limits like raising max units to 30.000 and max hex surface from 10000 to 32,767 so even bigger maps are possible to make...

You are probably thinking of either Civ3 or Civ4 taking 10 min+ a turn for huge maps with max civs. Towards the late game turns took a lot longer than 10 min to process.

This too..in fact all Civ games can suffer from greatly reduced turn processing time in late games...of course this depends on the Rig too...still...extremely long processing times are common for these games..let alone the very big mods for Civ IV...btw there is an excellent WWII European/Russian Theatre mod for Civ IV too

[VPaulus]

I didn't say anything out of ordinary, did i? The DLC's are great add-ons for Panzer Corps.
But personally, when i can try out Chris' mod, i won't be thinking about playing the DLC's for quite a while.

But why bringing the DLC's subject specifically? Are you always with the DLC's on your mind?
Still don't get it. But anyway this is OT and it really doesn't matter.
Sorry Chris.

I'm not annoyed with Nico, if that's what you are concerning about.
We don't have to agree on everything, right Bob?

[airbornemongo101]

True....alles ist gut, Paulo

[Chris10]

Sounds great~!!
May I know a little bit about the system in the 4th point??

Sure you may ask...
but I cant give you an indepth explanation as I would have to write half a book if I wanted to.
In short...Its an eclectic approach consisting of scenario design, nopurchase noupgrade flag usage, equipment availability date time usage, strength and max strength limits on units, scripted units and usage of core/aux slots availability.
The whole setting is aiming on getting the german side into disadvantage over time and assure an attrition war...
It still has to proove to work though..

[Chris10]

Since I have to rebuild the BIG_UNIT folder from scratch too Iam unsure what to do about the unique german units
like SS, Heavy Tank Regiments and Air Wings...
Should I use their divisional (SS), Rgmt (Heavy Tank) and Wing (air) insignias as Big Units or should I use generic vanilla Icons ?
What do you think or prefer guys ?
I go play a shooter while this is discussed...need to relax a bit

[naturesheva]

In terms of the time for each turn, since there's no real solution for this issue. I think just leave it the way it is now. Because this Mod is actually become another game. You'll only have one huge map and one long campaign. So I guess that should be fine for the people who love this game mode.

[naturesheva]

Since I have to rebuild the BIG_UNIT folder from scratch too Iam unsure what to do about the unique german units
like SS, Heavy Tank Regiments and Air Wings...
Should I use their divisional (SS), Rgmt (Heavy Tank) and Wing (air) insignias as Big Units or should I use generic vanilla Icons ?
What do you think or prefer guys ?
I go play a shooter while this is discussed...need to relax a bit

How about the combination of this two. A vanilla icon with a small insignia at the left top or right bottom?

[airbornemongo101]

Just use the vanilla icons

I had made vanilla big units for the 1st release of the Elite Units,but had forgot to add them in the release.

Only one or two people even noticed that they weren't there.

Most people are going to pay attention to the actual unit and the stats,not the big unit.

It will save you alot of time just using the big units.

I can send you my total collection from the Elite Units 1.10 if you want to use them (some are colored,some aren't). That might save you some more time.