AAR – PanzerGeneral vs Supermax - war is over

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:42 pm

trulster wrote:Yeah some leaders on garrisons is fine, but for the ones with offensive bonus, I think it is worth the risk putting em on an armour. Mind, one that only takes part in well-supported attacks and does not end the turn exposed.

BTW I hope panzergeneral didnt remove all leaders to reattach to garrisons, it surely is not good to have a front without any active leaders (even if only for two turns)

Well I was feeling quite bold so yes the Russians were without leaders for two turns. What could possinly go wrong? Well the next turn by Supermax of course

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:43 pm

pickle wrote:Is the tactical bomber near Rostov able to get in the action?

Yep, it was used against Kiev.

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:46 pm

BuddyGrant wrote:More on leaders: Remember not to mix poor leaders with the good ones on any front!

Also, since I have not said so recently: You guys have one hell of a AAR going here. Fantastic work in presenting these:).

Yep, thanks to your research I will definitely not mix leaders

The best will be at the front and the remainder will be in reserve or posted to non vital sectors.

Glad you like our AAR.

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:51 pm

16. July 1944, MASSIVE axis counter attack, the Red Army lose 10 armies!
The weather.

The Russian scientists understand the gravity of the situation and produce miracles.

Well Supermax sure has counter attacked! Both AG Center and AG South have crushed a large part of the Red Army.

AG Center attacks and the Red Army lose 3 INF and 1 MECH.

The AG South attacks are devastating for the Red Army. I lose 3 ARM and 3 INF. AG South has destroyed a large part of my offensive powers. These counter attacks from Supermax are very impressive. Once again he pounces on me and wrecks the Red Army.

Some numbers regarding the losses in this gigantic counter attack.
Germany, infantry: 251.800
Germany, panzers: 936
Germany, planes: 1.067

Russia, infantry: 830.420
Russia, tanks: 1.612
Russia, planes: 650

My planned landing in Italy has failed completely. Italian subs attack my fleet, there is no chance I will manage to land in Italy successfully as Supermax knows that is my most likely destination.

In the Middle East my landing craft head for the coast in order to save themselves from the Italian subs. The Red Army continues to advance towards Tobruk.

The axis counter attack in the East has robbed me off much of my offensive powers. What should I do? Retreat? Halt my attacks, and wait for reinforcements? No, the only answer is COUNTER ATTACK

Zhukov is assigned to command the southern sector and Konev will command the central sector.

On the central sector I want to remove the salient that Supermax has created in my front line. The Red Air Force attacks and meets some Luftwaffe resistance. The attacks are successful and the result is 4 INF and 1 MECH which are destroyed another two Italian units are routed. Several infantry armies are railed from the central sector to the south in order to stem the Wehrmacht advance there.

The Red Force attacks the exposed axis units before the ground attack. The results are more modest. Supermax lose 2 ARM and 1 MECH. With the reinforcements from the central sector I feel that things are under control. Next turn will tell if that is true.

The Russians buy another fighter to combat the Luftwaffe. This will be deployed in the Middle East and both of the elite fighters in the Middle East will be redeployed to the Eastern front where they surely will kill lots of Luftwaffe fighters. The rest of the PPs are used on repairs on infantry and a fighter.

I and Supermax has agreed on a compensation scheme as I lost my Middle East PPs income.
>I suggest the following compensation scheme:
>-I can take 2 infantry units every third turn OR
>-I can take a tank unit every third turn OR
>-I can take a motorized unit every second turn

This time I take 2 INF from the Siberian reserve and rail them to the southern sector. I will get more infantry next time as well. That will be turn 93 (14th September).

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:32 pm

Undoubtedly, Operation Bagration in the central sector has been more successful than the operations in the south but anyway even you have lost a significant offensive power in the south, your situation there is not bad.

I think because of your successful Operation Bagration you are about to achieve a breakthrough in the central sector followed by a race to the baltic sea, threatening with an huge axis bulge in the Baltic countries.

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:14 pm

leridano wrote:Undoubtedly, Operation Bagration in the central sector has been more successful than the operations in the south but anyway even you have lost a significant offensive power in the south, your situation there is not bad.

I think because of your successful Operation Bagration you are about to achieve a breakthrough in the central sector followed by a race to the baltic sea, threatening with an huge axis bulge in the Baltic countries.

I agree. Right now my best bet is to continue to slug it out against AG Center.

To be honest I think my chances have become even slimmer to reach Berlin after the axis counter offensive. To actually believe that I can get to Berlin you would have to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, and you could also throw in the Tooth Fairy as well. But I am a believer

Clark · Post by **Clark** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:46 pm

PanzerGeneral wrote:
leridano wrote:Undoubtedly, Operation Bagration in the central sector has been more successful than the operations in the south but anyway even you have lost a significant offensive power in the south, your situation there is not bad.

I think because of your successful Operation Bagration you are about to achieve a breakthrough in the central sector followed by a race to the baltic sea, threatening with an huge axis bulge in the Baltic countries.

I agree. Right now my best bet is to continue to slug it out against AG Center.

To be honest I think my chances have become even slimmer to reach Berlin after the axis counter offensive. To actually believe that I can get to Berlin you would have to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, and you could also throw in the Tooth Fairy as well. But I am a believer

You never know. Don't know his oil levels, but supermax's manpower has got to be awfully low. If he gets down to speedbump levels, you might be able to pull off a conquest of Berlin. I think the odds are decent that you make Warsaw, in any case.

trulster · Post by **trulster** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:05 pm

Clark wrote: You never know. Don't know his oil levels, but supermax's manpower has got to be awfully low. If he gets down to speedbump levels, you might be able to pull off a conquest of Berlin. I think the odds are decent that you make Warsaw, in any case.

Definitely. The key is that the Luftwaffe is decimated while the Red Air Force is rock solid, and the Axis cannot repair both Luftwaffe and the armies. So every turn the Russians can make several easy attacks on bombed hexes. Just gotta keep attacking and draining manpower and oil!

pickle · Post by **pickle** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:23 pm

I am not so sure I would have called off the invasion of Italy. Sure you were met by two subs and suffered some losses but you were close to the Boot and might have been able to raise some havoc. And even if there were more subs around and the units were lost, it is not like they are needed in Africa as he has made it clear the fight there is over. You could easily just mask Tobruk with a defensive line and look at shipping a couple of more valuable units back to Russia (not sure if the rail system is working for you or not) as you mentioned regarding the fighters.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:28 pm

pickle wrote:I am not so sure I would have called off the invasion of Italy.

The main problem is that PanzerGeneral doesn't have any way to supply those troops once he lands. The units then before no better than partisans and cannot be repaired since they're at supply level 0. He also has no airbases in range to provide air support. So all supermax would need to do is rail two or three axis minor or Italian corps to deal with the landing.

pickle · Post by **pickle** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:33 pm

I understand but Pangen had mentioned he had played his opponent enough to know he typically doesn't garrison rearward cities. If that were the case, the supply source might be at hand.

trulster · Post by **trulster** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:46 pm

Agree w pickle, those units when already afloat (PPs spent to sail them will not come back anyway) are certainly expendable and might as well try to catch an Italian city unawares. The line in Russia is not that solid so forcing some rail moves away does aid. Also, at the very least you make those subs burn some oil sailing around and attacking

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:18 pm

5. August 1944, The Wehrmacht pulls back
The weather.

The Russian scientists produce results.

The attack on Tobruk has started. Soon this fortress city will be conquered by the Red Army. A fighter has started its redeployment to Russia. I suddenly remember that I have access to the Atlantic via Suez. I plan to ship both of my fully strength armies to the Atlantic. One makes and the other one runs into an Italian sub. The other two damaged armies land in the dessert.

My counter attacks in Russia must have been effective. AG Center and AG South have started to withdraw their exposed units.

In the central sector I destroy an axis allied unit while crushing two other units.

In the southern sector AG South has pulled back even more and is preparing to defend behind the Dniester. An exposed Wehrmacht korps is destroyed by my infantry.

My Red Air Force has received some serious beating these last couple of turns. A large amount of PPs are spent on repairs on the Red Air Force .I need lots more to get it back into shape. The rest of my PPs are used on unit repairs and upgrades.

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:20 pm

pickle wrote:I understand but Pangen had mentioned he had played his opponent enough to know he typically doesn't garrison rearward cities. If that were the case, the supply source might be at hand.

I know he does not garrison rearward cities. Especially not in this game when the UK and USA have been defeated. Last turn I had partisans spawn in Paris and Cherbourgh. But when the US message for surrender comes they disband immediately

I want to try to sail a couple of Red Army units to the Atlantic and grab some allied coastal cities. But should I sail to England, France or even the US? I have not decided yet, but the US is tempting.

shawkhan · Post by **shawkhan** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:32 pm

If you are going to do these things, you had better do it quickly, as the game is winding down. Since you can't do amphibious landings in nonclear weather that narrows your window of opportunity even more.
I think you made a mistake not pursuing landings in the Med. You can outrun his subs, as your transports move at 17 and his subs at 15. I don't think you need strong combat units, you can even use garrisons against unoccupied cities, but you should do it in great numbers. His naval units can't be everywhere. If you have seen 2 subs, then use at least 6 transports. A single sub can't even kill a transport in one attack, so if you kept on you would have made multiple landings in Italy anyway with your last attempt. Now that he knows your plan, I wouldn't be surprised if he built up his defenses even more. Surprise is only a surprise the first time

If you were to play Supermax again, I think you would do much better, as his store of surprises for you would also now be low.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:37 pm

PanzerGeneral wrote:I know he does not garrison rearward cities. Especially not in this game when the UK and USA have been defeated. Last turn I had partisans spawn in Paris and Cherbourgh. But when the US message for surrender comes they disband immediately

PG, this game has been invaluable for uncovering bugs that happen when all countries of a given allied faction have been conquered (i.e., UK/USA/France or Russia). We now have a fix to results in partisans still be spawned and not being disbanded when the US/UK/France are all defeated.

See: viewtopic.php?p=140790#140790

email to GS testers wrote:We've found and corrected a major bug that occurs in the rare condition that all countries in the UK/USA/French fraction are defeated (e.g., PanzerGeneral's AAR). The attached mini-path contains that fix and must be applied over v1.04.

trulster · Post by **trulster** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:03 pm

Good stuff, Supermax does not really need the help of not having to garrison vs partisans

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:36 pm

PG,

I'll also post this in Max's AAR; but if you two could agree to apply v1.05 w/the latest mini-patch that could give us more confidence in the changes we've made.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:10 pm

PG,

Here's a conversation we've been having in Max's AAR so I thought I'd post it here for you and other folks following your AAR to be aware of and comment on if they so wish.

rkr1958 wrote:
supermax wrote:
Stauffenberg wrote: But the changes to v1.05 are specifically meant to fix the issues reported in your game with Panzergeneral. E. g. the message each turn about USA joining the Allies. Isn't it nice to get rid of that message?
I will confer with Pangen and we will decide.

I recon that a lot of changes were implemented following this game as it was not a conventional game , at least it is good in that sense.
Max, below is a list of changes and fixes that are the direct result of this game. This game has been invaluable for the improvement of the GS expansion and thanks to you and PG for posting it in your AAR's.

1-1-2010

11. Canadian weather. Changed the code so Canada (including UK controlled part of Canada) plus Greenland and Iceland are now part of the north weather zone.
12. Convoy bug regarding Halifax. Rewrote the convoy code so New York port will be set as a destination if Halifax becomes Axis controlled.
13. Convoys when UK surrenders. Changed the code so the convoys will become US and go to New York when UK surrenders (Ottawa falls).
14. US DoW upon Germany when an Axis unit controls a hex in Canada (including UK controlled part of Canada). Added this code as well because we felt it's an omission to not think about what would happen if Germany landed in Canada. Now USA will automatically join the Allies by DoW'ing Germany if the Axis are so bold to land units in Canada.
15. Fredericton garrison. Added the Fredericton garrison to all scenarios. The reason was that Canada is neutral until some time in 1941 and that means the Germans can DoW Canada and land directly into Fredericton and get supply without the Allied player being able to stop it. The allies can't move units to Fredericton after England falls because the territory is neutral. So by adding a garrison here it means the Germans must fight for a supply source.

3-11-2010

44. Made a change so that USA will get 100% war effort + tech bonus as long as the Axis player controls a hex in Canada or USA. This simulates the emergency situation USA would be in if the Axis would land at the US doorstep. It simulates that production intended for the west is sent to the east instead. This change should make it even less likely that the Axis will land in Canada or USA.

4-12-2010
63. Fixed a bug about USA activating when Axis units were in Canada if USA had surrendered. This message won't show now and the Russians won’t get an extra set of Siberian reserves.
64. Fixed a bug when UK had surrendered where the southern lend lease route to USSR would shut down. The bug sent the PP's to USA instead. Now USSR will receive the lend lease from Persia regardless.

4-17-2010
72. Fixed a bug that caused the game to hang when partisans trying to spawn in countries tied to a major faction (i.e., Britain/USA/France, Russia or Germany/Italy) when all countries of that faction have been defeated. For example, in the unlikely case that Britain, USA and France are all defeated partisans that spawn in these countries, or minor countries tied to this faction, will spawn as Russian partisans. Similarly, if Russia is defeated then traditional Russian partisans will spawn in the British/USA/French faction.

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:04 pm

25. August 1944, The Red Army rests for its next battles
The weather.

The Russian scientists continue to produce results.

The Wehrmacht has fled Tobruk and the Red Army captures the city and races towards Beng Hazi.

In the central sector 3 axis allied units are destroyed by ground attacks. The Red Air Force is grounded for repairs.

In the southern sector the Romanian DD outside the Crimea is finally sunk. A Luftwaffe fighter with only 3 steps left is a target to juicy to resist. One of my fighters attack and kill it.

This turn all my PPs are used on repairs for the Red Air Force with some upgrades as well. It helps but there are more repairs needed.
There is only one infantry unit left among the Siberian reserves. Thus I rail a MECH to Kiev as compensation this turn for losing my Middle East PPs revenue.