Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by McGuba »

goose_2 wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:02 pm Pete? McGuba?

Did you see my latest post? There is quite the discussion going on around the Hungarian units message I received ingame. Would love to hear your input around that item
Yes, in this v2.0 version the early Hungarian units disappear (go home) just before the first winter comes, whatever happens, as historically. (Maybe they knew something? Or they were more realistic given that they also lacked winter equipment and clothes and did not want to fight under these terms. Unfortunately the German units did not have to luxury to do the same...)

But on Uhu's request I changed this in the latest versions of the mod: since BE v2.13 the Hungarians can be taken home by train where they would spend the winter months and then can be taken back to the fronline the next spring with some additional new units. This way they can retain their experience. If, however, the player does not move them home by the deadline they disappear anyway as in BE v2.0 and then replaced by inexperienced units the next year.

goose_2 wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:36 pm crap...so do not spend elite reinforcements on anything but German units, as those will never disappear ever right?
It depends on the strategic situation. If things do not go well most Axis nation will quit the war at some point, disbanding all their units. They may even turn against Germany as it happened historically. In most cases it was unexpected and caused great problems to the German war effort. In order to avoid it the player has to do better than the Germans did historically.

As for German units, they do not disappear on their own if I am right. The only exception may be the two Hs 126 recon aircraft units, but these will be replaced by a better Fw 189 recon plane, and the Hs 126 units cannot get replacements and cannot be upgraded before that so the player cannot lose with this. But again, in the next version of the mod the new Fw 189 only appears if at least one Hs 126 is still alive at that point so that both cannot be wasted. In this v2.0 version though the new recon plane will appear whether or not any of the two Hs 126 units is alive at that point.

goose_2 wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:25 pm I hate losing experience especially on certain units. For example. My planes. 2 stars of experience are incredibly important, because it increases your attack against planes by 4 and increases your initiative. Don't you agree?
It is indeed important, but this is a historical mod and historically the general quality of the Lufwaffe decreased gradually. Mainly due to the shortage of aviation fuel which forced the Gemans to cut the hours of flight training. It resulted in having less and less well trained / experienced new replacement pilots taking the place of their fallen comrades.

This chart shows how the hours of flight training changed with the major powers during the war:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF ... fe-LXX.jpg

While between 1939-42 new German and British fighter pilots had about the same hours of flight training, after that the Germans had less and less and the British and Americans had more and more. From mid 1944 a British or American fighter pilot cadet had 3-4 times more hours of flight training before entering frontline service than that of a German. The reduce in flight hours in operational aircraft for the German pilots was especially significant. (For example a fighter pilot cadet mostly flew in trainer planes and only had a few hours in Bf 109 before being sent to the front. Basically he only learned how to take off and land in a Bf 109 and they expected him to learn the rest at the operational unit.) Therfore later in the war the pilots of the Allies were much better trained and in general were more experienced than the average German pilot. To some extent it is reflected in this mod as well.

For more:

Strategy for Defeat
The Luftwaffe
1933-1945
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Luftwaffe/
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by goose_2 »

So much research and love has been put into this mod. Thanks for all you continue to do. Malta seems to have been significantly increased in difficulty to overcome in 2.0...do you think you went overboard? Any help with destroying mines, meaning are there any tricks because they seem overpowered, especially the 10 strength ones
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by PeteMitchell »

It wasn't trivial... nor did anybody put real concentrated effort... nor did anybody succeed...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_ ... prov=sfla1
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by goose_2 »

I understand Malta was a key to the axis losing the fight in the Mediterranean as well as Africa, but I am saying the difficulty of concentrating on it seems that it went up by significant degrees. Because in your 1.9 playthrough you seemed to pressure from the get go, where I was severely punished for attempting something similar.
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by McGuba »

Hm, yes probably it is harder in v2.0 than it was before. But it has to be. Now the player has to put some real effort into it. Historically the Germans did not really do so, they just neutralized it for a while but did not finish the job.

Nevertheless it is still doable, even by the end of 1941, perhaps with a little luck with the dice rolls. But it can also be done in 1942, there is plenty of time for that. Rudel's unit can take down 1-2 strength points in every turn and it can be attacked with two tactical bombers in every turn and the other can take down another point. But it does require this commitment. Or any other two tac bombers or one tac and one strategic but then it may take longer. It really depends on the outcome of the dice rolls.

As for the naval mines, they might be a little over the top but here they are necessary to keep the Italian ships away from the island so that the player is forced to rely on the bombers mainly. Historically the island was bombed from the air and not from the sea and probably for a reason.
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by oliviaaa »

I haven't played this game before.
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by goose_2 »

PeteMitchellOLD wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:28 pm Turn 10 – 4 November 1941
Weather: rain and muddy

Overall situation:
The overall situation is stable. In the East we reached Moscow before the start of winter. However, Leningrad hasn’t been touched yet. Further South, we closed the Kiev pocket in time and are now heading towards Rostov. In North Africa it might just be the calm before the storm? Malta will be captured after the winter. Further preparations for Operation Sea Lion have been postponed until spring the earliest. However, the French airspace is now under complete axis control. OKW considers no change in the short to mid-term objectives.
BE_Turn_10_063_Strategic Map.jpg


Ostfront:
The mud has stopped all major operations. The plan is now to fully capture Moscow and to develop sustainable defensive positions along the triangle Rzhev-Moscow-Kaluga.
BE_Turn_10_064_Moscow.jpg


In the South, Odessa has been captured and von Manstein considers crossing the Dnieper River to occupy Crimea already in winter and to initiate the attack on Sevasopol and Kerch as well.
BE_Turn_10_065_Odessa.jpg
OH CRAP!!!

I see decided to pop on and pull a little comparison of where you are at compared to me. I am deeper past Odessa and Have stronger control of Afrika, but you have Moscow.

I am not even close to Moscow in comparison.

The Golden Order has chastised me for my lack of push around Leningrad. He says I have already lost.

I will keep pushing, but am worried that I am in severe trouble at this point.
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by McGuba »

While the situation is not exactly ideal, I think it is a bit early to declare that your current game is lost. Leningrad and Moscow can be captured in 1942 and then it mainly depends on how high the Axis losses will be at that point. Or alternatively you may try to capture the oil fields at Baku and perphaps the city of Stalingrad, as happened historically. Capturing any of these main cities or the Caucasus will give you a one time presige award and reduce the number of new Soviet units appearing in 1943-45. The more of these you can capture and hold the less units they will get later. But they will still get a lot of units anyway, especially in this hardest version of the scenario that you chose to play.

In either case I think you need to improve and adapt you playing style to this mod a bit. I noticed that you were a bit too generous with prestige spending. I mean you probably used too much elite replacements, unit overstrengths and unnecessary 88mm AA upgrades. This prestige will be missing from now on. (It looks like a lot of new players do the same so in the current development verision of the mod there will be less prestige to waste at the beginnig but more will be given later on.) Another mistake that you may have been doing is the overuse of massed attacks and forced surrenders. I have seen several instances when you surrounded a weak Soviet unit with 4-5 German units to ensure its forced surrender when 2-3 units would have been enough to destroy it in normal fight. In this case 2-3 German units could have been moved forward instead to maintain a steady advance. It was one of the reasons why you were late to reach Moscow. I am not saying that forced surrenders are not important, as they are, just not all the time. In 1941 speed is certainly more important. I also saw that sometime in turn 8 you had some German tanks in a fairly good position to reach Moscow just before the winter but you suddenly moved them south to destroy a lone Soviet infantry unit. So I think you need to focus more on what you want to achieve in the first place.

Also in this mod losing is not the only alternative to winning. Even if you fail to achieve anything significant 1942 you may decide to continue to fight for a draw: if the Allies are unable to capture at least one objective city in Germany by turn 99 they will agree to a cease fire to stop the bloodshed. So all you need to do for a draw is to defend Germany. Easier said than done, though. :) Actually it can be quite challenging as well but it again depends on how low you can keep your losses. If you keep attacking for too long without winning your losses will be too high to organise the defense.

In the end, I think it is a bit unfair to compare your current game to this AAR. You started with the hardest version of the scenario and without playing the pre-1941 scenarios in campaign mode while Pete had played the mod several times before this attempt. Also this AAR was made with BE v1.9 and you are playing v2.0 which is probably harder. For example the fuel restrictions are more significant.
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by PeteMitchell »

McGuba wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:07 am While the situation is not exactly ideal, I think it is a bit early to declare that your current game is lost. Leningrad and Moscow can be captured in 1942 and then it mainly depends on how high the Axis losses will be at that point. Or alternatively you may try to capture the oil fields at Baku and perphaps the city of Stalingrad, as happened historically. Capturing any of these main cities or the Caucasus will give you a one time presige award and reduce the number of new Soviet units appearing in 1943-45. The more of these you can capture and hold the less units they will get later. But they will still get a lot of units anyway, especially in this hardest version of the scenario that you chose to play.

In either case I think you need to improve and adapt you playing style to this mod a bit. I noticed that you were a bit too generous with prestige spending. I mean you probably used too much elite replacements, unit overstrengths and unnecessary 88mm AA upgrades. This prestige will be missing from now on. (It looks like a lot of new players do the same so in the current development verision of the mod there will be less prestige to waste at the beginnig but more will be given later on.) Another mistake that you may have been doing is the overuse of massed attacks and forced surrenders. I have seen several instances when you surrounded a weak Soviet unit with 4-5 German units to ensure its forced surrender when 2-3 units would have been enough to destroy it in normal fight. In this case 2-3 German units could have been moved forward instead to maintain a steady advance. It was one of the reasons why you were late to reach Moscow. I am not saying that forced surrenders are not important, as they are, just not all the time. In 1941 speed is certainly more important. I also saw that sometime in turn 8 you had some German tanks in a fairly good position to reach Moscow just before the winter but you suddenly moved them south to destroy a lone Soviet infantry unit. So I think you need to focus more on what you want to achieve in the first place.

Also in this mod losing is not the only alternative to winning. Even if you fail to achieve anything significant 1942 you may decide to continue to fight for a draw: if the Allies are unable to capture at least one objective city in Germany by turn 99 they will agree to a cease fire to stop the bloodshed. So all you need to do for a draw is to defend Germany. Easier said than done, though. :) Actually it can be quite challenging as well but it again depends on how low you can keep your losses. If you keep attacking for too long without winning your losses will be too high to organise the defense.

In the end, I think it is a bit unfair to compare your current game to this AAR. You started with the hardest version of the scenario and without playing the pre-1941 scenarios in campaign mode while Pete had played the mod several times before this attempt. Also this AAR was made with BE v1.9 and you are playing v2.0 which is probably harder. For example the fuel restrictions are more significant.
I agree with this assessment!
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by goose_2 »

Thanks ...this is the kind of assurance I was looking for as I just didn't want to be so super punished that it becomes a version of Bagration in 1942, but this sounds like the kind of challenge and difficulty in achieving success that I was hoping for with this playthrough.

I just hope other viewers still find a non optimized playthrough interesting
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by PeteMitchell »

I am sure people will find it interesting... although given that people know how difficult it is!! ;)
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by goose_2 »

PeteMitchellOLD wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:10 pm Turn 12 – 4 December 1941
Weather: snow and frozen

Ostfront:
In the South, Zaporozhye has been captured and combined German, Italian, Hungarian and Romanian forces are about to cross the Isthmus of Perekop towards Crimea.
BE_Turn_12_070_Zaporozhye.jpg


North Africa:
Rommel’s tank division experienced heavy casualties but the overall defense line remains stable due to 8.8 AA units.
BE_Turn_12_071_North Africa.jpg
Hey Pete I took a look at where you were at between turn 11 and turn 12

You dropped by over 1200 in prestige...Do you remember why? I am assuming a lot of upgrades, which I have already done so far so I feel ready for the future

about retention of interested viewers as long as I keep you interested I will be happy :D
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by PeteMitchell »

Sorry I don't remember. It could be upgrades or required replacements due to winter weather losses. Not sure what turns they hit.
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by PeteMitchell »

You may also find yourself at zero prestige for a while...
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by MrKite »

I played this a couple of times earlier this year, a couple of tips from a bit of a noob:
-Abandon North Africa, you're on a hiding to nothing there anyway. The troops and planes find better use in Russia. Also, doesn't hasten the allied invasion of Sicily or Italy.
- Don't worry about the Caucasus too much. It's a hard slog and even after you capture the second oil well, you still have 20 turns before it comes into effect anyway. Too late in the game to really make a difference (well for me anyway).
- Try not to spend too much time on the Yugoslav partisans. The moment you kill one, another one spawns anyway. Just make sure you keep the east-West rail link open to North Italy.
-At the beginning of '44, start moving any strat bomber you still have left to France. You can't stop the landings but you can hit their landing craft.
- Be careful what you spend money on with replacements. You get an Elefant, but very expensive to beef up, same with aircraft carrier and battleships.
-Lastly, never under estimate the Soviets. So many times you think you're on top and they'll hit you with new (and better) tanks and planes. Slows down a bit once you have the Leningrad/Moscow/Stalingrad trifecta.
Have fun, it's an epic game!
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by McGuba »

Sorry but I dare to disagree at some poinnts. :D
MrKite wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:21 pm -Abandon North Africa, you're on a hiding to nothing there anyway. The troops and planes find better use in Russia. Also, doesn't hasten the allied invasion of Sicily or Italy.
What you are suggesting is just one option. While it is true that the player can decide to completely abandon North Africa and only focus on defeating the Soviets, there are other options as well: he can also decide to try to hold Tunisia to avoid further Allied invasions in the Mediterranean, and for that purpose those units can be useful. It is also possible to defeat the British in Egypt and break through to Palestine and Syria and even to invade Iraq. But that probably requires some addtional units as reinforcements.
- Don't worry about the Caucasus too much. It's a hard slog and even after you capture the second oil well, you still have 20 turns before it comes into effect anyway. Too late in the game to really make a difference (well for me anyway).
Capturing the oil fields would also reduce the number of new Soviet units appearing in the Ural and it takes effect immediately.
- Try not to spend too much time on the Yugoslav partisans. The moment you kill one, another one spawns anyway. Just make sure you keep the east-West rail link open to North Italy.
The partisans may capture the airfield near Tirana and then it can be useful as a base for the Allied planes especially if they own North Africa. So I think this airbase should be held as well.
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by goose_2 »

McGuba wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:39 am Sorry but I dare to disagree at some poinnts. :D
MrKite wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:21 pm -Abandon North Africa, you're on a hiding to nothing there anyway. The troops and planes find better use in Russia. Also, doesn't hasten the allied invasion of Sicily or Italy.
What you are suggesting is just one option. While it is true that the player can decide to completely abandon North Africa and only focus on defeating the Soviets, there are other options as well: he can also decide to try to hold Tunisia to avoid further Allied invasions in the Mediterranean, and for that purpose those units can be useful. It is also possible to defeat the British in Egypt and break through to Palestine and Syria and even to invade Iraq. But that probably requires some addtional units as reinforcements.
- Don't worry about the Caucasus too much. It's a hard slog and even after you capture the second oil well, you still have 20 turns before it comes into effect anyway. Too late in the game to really make a difference (well for me anyway).
Capturing the oil fields would also reduce the number of new Soviet units appearing in the Ural and it takes effect immediately.
- Try not to spend too much time on the Yugoslav partisans. The moment you kill one, another one spawns anyway. Just make sure you keep the east-West rail link open to North Italy.
The partisans may capture the airfield near Tirana and then it can be useful as a base for the Allied planes especially if they own North Africa. So I think this airbase should be held as well.
McGuba?

Any suggestions on where to take Student?

I want to fly him somewhere he is most effective.

Behind Cairo? Near Jerusalem? Way out near the rigs in the far middle east?
North to help out with the Caucauses?
Way way North to help with Archanglsk?

Your input is much appreciated
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by McGuba »

He cannot do much on his own after all it is just one unit and can be quickly overwhelmed by the enemy. I would not recommend dropping it too far behind enemy lines. You can drop it to help towards Archangelsk but it has the drawback that it will get stuck in those endless forests there until you can capture the airfield to move it out thereby losing its main advantage: mobility. But they could certainly be useful there if you have no better idea where to use them.

Maybe better to drop them somewhere behind Rostov and perhaps later again in the Caucasus if you intend to move that direction. It has the advantage of having more airfields and railroads in that area so that they can retain their mobility and they can be moved elsewhere if needed. But it is risky as well due to enemy units who may spot and decide to kill them. And maybe it is better to concentrate on capturing Moscow first.

In either case they require strong fighter escort as transport planes are the favourite targets of the AI, even if escorted.

Another option is to leave them in reserve for the time being and only use them when some real s..t happens somewhere. It is good to have some rapid reaction force that can be quickly sent to a hotspot if needed. The Allies are getting stronger and stronger and the real fun is only about to start from late 1942.
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by MrKite »

McGuba wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:39 am Sorry but I dare to disagree at some poinnts. :D

Nice to meet you, awesome scenario btw. My hat is off to you.

No need to apologise, you're probably right about North Africa, Cairo was a tough nut to crack and the allies got the upper hand in the air. After that it was one way traffic.
Hey, Italy is easy- and fun to defend and no something you need to worry about for a while.

Did not know that about the oil wells, was only aware of the fighter feature. On my second attempt I tried a 2 pronged attack...I probably don't have the skills but still took me till about turn 60 to secure everything.

Also right about the Balkan airfield, I had the same problem with commandos in Norway.....

I'll play the scenario again, lol those end of turns can be a real killer.
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 – month by month

Post by goose_2 »

I posted my latest day. I am pretty happy about how Afrika is going. I am pretty scared about what is going on around Moscow.
I am tenuous on my hold around Leningrad, but hopeful about my Northern push.
My hold on the Crimea is tenuous, and Rostov is going to be a tough slog.

I am able to buy a unit, and Pete has recommended a Fighter if I can afford, but I was thinking artillery. Thoughts?
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