SPQR: March of the Eagles

[Tobi72]

I had to laugh when that one cavalryman bypassed your lines and took the abandoned town. I like this winner.

K.png (295.72 KiB) Viewed 466 times

I think you've missed all the fox markings so far.

fuchs.png (439.9 KiB) Viewed 466 times

Here are all the current animal markings again.

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[Imeror]

Here are all the current animal markings again.

These markers were a very nice addition. I still have not tried Brennus campaign, but they already gave a lot of idea in the scenario editor

In the second scenario of my next campaign, player have to gather supplies to sustain a long siege.
If any player's unit is adjacent to a marker...




... the marker is removed and replaced by a cattle unit that have to be bring back to the camp





Moreover, I think the icons fit well with the style of PZCorps map.

[Tobi72]

Hi Imeror, thanks for the praise. I'm not entirely satisfied with my solution yet, though. While watching Bond's replay, I noticed I'd placed a herd of farm animals rather inconveniently, as Bond had positioned a unit directly on that space, preventing the herd from appearing. As a result, he missed out on the reward. I'm also not entirely happy with the idea of ​​placing all the "gifts" at the edge of the map. I'll have to come up with something else. I like your approach of making the marker disappear, and I'll try that in the next campaign.

[Tobi72]

If you mean the unit: they're called Etruscan Problem Solvers. I made up the name on a whim. But there really were men in the Etruscan army who fought with large two-handed axes.So, no golfers.

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[bondjamesbond]

I had to laugh when that one cavalryman bypassed your lines and took the abandoned town. I like this winner. K.png



I think you've missed all the fox markings so far.
fuchs.png

Here are all the current animal markings again.
Markierungen.png

Yes, those jerks managed to take back the city, but on the very next turn, they got their well-deserved and long-awaited karma.

In the next map, where you need to drive four cargo carts along the road of rage, the enemy squad occupied the city just as easily, and all because
They took advantage of the fact that my troops were sent to fight the super tough Romans. Yes, I saw the hexes of foxes and boars, but they didn't give me anything there yet.

If you mean the unit: they're called Etruscan Problem Solvers. I made up the name on a whim. But there really were men in the Etruscan army who fought with large two-handed axes.So, no golfers. EPL.png

I also give them nicknames. To me, they're golfers. They're so cool that they can beat my nudists in winter like schoolchildren.


The weakest points in my core are the two weapons I bought in the anti-tank weapons section!!! They are of little use in defense and completely useless in offense ))) The problem with the original game has come here too, where only the AI buys anti-tank guns )))

They will be sold along with livestock and slaves and replaced with chariots or archers )))

[Tobi72]

I saw it in your replay – a Celtic warrior unit with strength 9 was standing on the boar marker and immediately received strength 11. And yes, you're right, in the "Etruscan League" mission I forgot to use the trigger at the fox. I'm not getting any younger, just more forgetful. Well, that shows me I still need to improve a few things here and there in future campaigns.
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The Celtic heavy spearmen are actually solid units; I had the same impression at first, but you have to remember they come into the game quite late and the opponent already has higher experience values. But I'll take another look at them because they should actually play a good role in defense.
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I won and lost the "Arretium and Cortona" mission twice during testing. It's somewhat tricky; I used cavalry and Celtic chariots as escorts for the supply wagons. I attacked Cortona last; you have to defend yourself first, as the enemy comes from all sides.

[Imeror]

The weakest points in my core are the two weapons I bought in the anti-tank weapons section!!! They are of little use in defense and completely useless in offense ))) The problem with the original game has come here too, where only the AI buys anti-tank guns )))

They will be sold along with livestock and slaves and replaced with chariots or archers )))

I've not tried the "anti-tank" units for Brennus faction yet, but this tab is used to represent pikemen.
They are generally slow, but with high soft defense (but not on close terrain) and high "Hard Attack" values. Cavalry are classified as "hard" targets in March of the Eagles mod, so pikemen are designed to counter cavalry and hold in open terrain.

I don't find them as useless as you, but I generally agree it is often better to take more versatile units. Spearmen are less effective against cavs, but they at least can pursue them and not slowly go after them 2 tiles each turn

However, it seems that the last update allows pikement to be a bit faster. i need to try them again.

[Tobi72]

Here you can easily compare the values. Initially, I only had my heavy spearmen defend; later, with more experience, I actively deployed them in attacks against the cavalry.

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But nothing is set in stone, as I constantly have to adjust the device file, I can take a closer look at these units again.

[bondjamesbond]

Here you can easily compare the values. Initially, I only had my heavy spearmen defend; later, with more experience, I actively deployed them in attacks against the cavalry.fg.pngmp.png

But nothing is set in stone, as I constantly have to adjust the device file, I can take a closer look at these units again.

By the time they become full-fledged warriors, the enemies will have multiplied even more, like cockroaches. These units (which are only formidable in pictures; we say about such things, “don't steal, don't loiter”) can only be used to escort wagons, and even then, I think they will be the golfers' whipping boys. And why are there never any additional units such as garrisons on your maps, and my soldiers have to do it, but the core of the army is not made of rubber )))







Toby, my friend, in my humble opinion, you may have gone a bit overboard with the number of enemies on the map. This time, I defeated a legion of Romans in Celtic Stalingrad, repelled a bunch of attacks, but golfers and other freaks kept spawning and reappearing over and over again. Hunting for cargo carts became a priority for the AI. More details in the screenshots and my replay.

[Tobi72]

I just played it again, here's my replay of Arretium.

Arretium.rar

(29.05 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

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Here's another approach. Here I set up all my units a little later and in different positions.

ArretiumNr2.zip

(42.85 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

[bondjamesbond]

I just played it again, here's my replay of Arretium.Arretium.rar

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Here's another approach. Here I set up all my units a little later and in different positions.ArretiumNr2.zip

This time I was as cool as our Toby ) On this map, as I understood, the main thing is to have balls of steel and atomic endurance! I'm attaching screenshots and replays ) For the fact that they strained my intellect for so long, I had to cut everyone on this map ) And I visited all the hexes with animals ))) But those damn golfers will haunt my dreams for a long time, einya einya )))

[Tobi72]

Well, you've done it! The next unit pack will also include new sounds—Spartans!!!!—Aahuu-Aahuu-Aahuu, so you'll have another earworm.

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May I introduce you to the Macedonians? We still need more buildings like temples, merchants, and maybe a small stone castle. The picture shows the watchtower and the army camp.

MKN.png (844.6 KiB) Viewed 218 times

[Imeror]

But nothing is set in stone, as I constantly have to adjust the device file, I can take a closer look at these units again.[/b]

Talking about unit stats, here is my feelings about the last update. A kind of feedback.
Unfortunately... I am less convinced and prefer what was in 0.2.


So, my opinion.

Quick recap of the previous version :
Other than some specialized units that each factions have, there were different families of close combat infantry units that were similar :
- light infantry (hastati, caetrati,...) : fast (4 move), decent against infantry, weak against cavalry. Plenty of utility : able to flank, to exploit a hole after heavier infantry break opponent formation, to urgently replace a damaged unit on the frontline, etc... ;
- heavy infantry (principes, early lybian infantry,...) : slower (3 move) and thus less versatile, but able to hold their ground better and strike hard enough to kill enemy units on the frontline ;
- spearmen (scutarii, hoplites...) : A mix between light infantry, heavy infantry, and pikemen. Not fast but not slow either ; decent against infantry but not to a point we can call them good ; same against cavalry ;... A "jack of all trades ; master of none" family unit. Always good to always take 2 or 3 of them in any scenario to counter any surprise ;
- pikemen (triarii, heavy pikemen,...) : slow (2 move) but high defense value in the open and very strong against cavalry. I prefer fast units, but it's a good unit to create a slow but inexorable line moving forward (and a nightmare for horses ).


It was a good system in my opinion, but I think that version 0.3 blurs these differences too much.
Two examples : pikemen become real tanks (both hard to kill AND fast) and light infantry become useless since heavy infantry now move as fast.
Hastati units complemented well the heavier Principes with their increased speed (as I explained in previous paragraph) ; but now principes are as fast and have better stats everywhere. There is now zero reason to take Hastati when Principes are available.
There is also no longer really a need to place light infantry to prevent the enemy from outflanking a line of pikemen, since the latter are now fast enough to redeploy adequately on their own to counter an unexpected threat. Why take spearmen now that pikemen also become mobile ?


To sum up, I think version 0.2 offered units that interacted well with each other, and provided better synergy. Each class had strengths and weaknesses, something I feel much less in version 0.3.
Some become able to do anything, other become totaly useless.


My opinion was given, and I may be wrong. I would be very interested to read someone else about it.

[Tobi72]

Hi Imeror,
thanks a lot for the detailed feedback — I really appreciate it. I actually agree with most of what you wrote. I had a very similar impression during testing.

For example, in my Celtic playthrough I recruited cavalry almost out of habit, but ended up using them far less than expected. Meanwhile, spearmen and skirmisher-type cavalry often became the real all-rounders. I noticed something similar with the infantry as well: on larger maps especially, heavier infantry can struggle to keep up operationally. Units like the more sluggish Triarii can feel a bit too limited in mobility when the front becomes wide and fluid. So there are really two aspects here — battlefield performance and overall mobility on the map.

I’ll take another close look at these points and adjust where needed. Balancing the units properly isn’t easy, but my goal is exactly what you described: every unit should have a clear role and a reason to be fielded. Otherwise there’s no point in having them in the roster.

I kept thinking about the original Panzer Corps and some of the later mods. I almost never bought the static anti-tank guns there because they felt unnecessary compared to the mobile options like the Marder types or assault guns, and later vehicles such as the Jagdpanther. That experience may have led me to spread the combat values across units a bit too generously, trying to make everything feel useful.

But the mod is still at an early stage, so there’s plenty of room to refine things. I’ll definitely take another close look at the unit roles and make adjustments where needed.

It’s always very helpful to read different opinions like yours. With a bit more feedback from other players, I’m hopeful we can find a good middle ground.

[Imeror]

Hi Imeror, thanks for the feedback.I basically agree with you. I had the same impression while testing. I bought cavalry for my Celts simply because that's what I always do, even though I hardly used them. The spearmen or skirmisher cavalry, on the other hand, were the all-rounders. The same goes for the infantry units; the problem on large maps is that heavy infantry can't keep up in terms of range. Two "witch-forward" units for heavy infantry, like the sluggish Triarii, seemed insufficient on large maps. That's one problem; the other, of course, is combat effectiveness. I'll take a closer look at these points and, as mentioned, adjust accordingly. It's not so easy to balance the units properly. Naturally, I want to make sure that every unit has its place on the battlefield; otherwise, there's no point in creating them. It's always good to read different opinions; perhaps a good middle ground will emerge.

Yes, I suspected that the very slow pikemen were one of the causes of these changes.
Two move is enough in a "battle scenario", but useless in a larger one. Hence the need to increase their move from 2 to 3.
But if pikemen become as fast as heavy infantry, it is necessary to also give them more speed ; but suddenly heavy infantry become as fast as light infantry etc...
In my opinion, the problem is : how units that are supposed to be slow in battle can keep the pace in a large map ?

I've thought of a possible solution.


In vanilla Panzer Corps, we use motorized transport to increase the speed of the infantry. Obviously, this solution would be completely inconsistent with an ancient theme. Those who have horses use them for fighting ; and chariots are more for supplies and the wounded (and in any case, they wouldn't be any faster than men on foot). So, I agree about your "no transports" policy.

The solution I'm thinking of might be to give the slowest infantry units a marching formation, which can be activated with the green function button. Their movements would increase from 2 (or 3) to 4, but their defenses and attacks would become abysmally low in that formation, leaving them as weak as skirmishers if they were to be engaged in combat.

There would be several advantages in terms of game mechanics.
- Obviously, this allows units that are slow in combat to participate in large scenarios. They need to be defended during movement and require a few turns to set up, but it would be possible to create large scenarios (like Alexander's campaign, why not?) punctuated by battles in which the player could deploy heavy and inflexible phalanxes, slowly advancing on the ennemy, before redeploying fast for the next battle ;
- Slow infantry can still retreat hastily from a dangerous front line with the marching formation, but must do so behind a wall of units to protect them from being destroyed due to their low defense value. This increases the need for the player to always have reserves ;
- Light infantry automatically gains a new role. Since they already have a movement of 4 (and therefore don't need a marching formation), they have every incentive to open a large marching column, as they are already ready for combat. They can absorb the initial shock of a surprise attack or quickly engage an enemy line while the heavier infantry (which would need a turn to change formation) takes up positions behind them. Mechanically, Hastatis and Principes regain their true historical role, by the way


I think this solution for the marching formation would be the most mechanically elegant.
HOWEVER, this would require working on each infantry unit with a speed of 2 or 3, creating their icons, their own line in the equipment file, etc... And I understand it could be a titanic work that you don't necessarily want to do

[Tobi72]

Hi Imeror, thanks for the feedback.I basically agree with you. I had the same impression while testing. I bought cavalry for my Celts simply because that's what I always do, even though I hardly used them. The spearmen or skirmisher cavalry, on the other hand, were the all-rounders. The same goes for the infantry units; the problem on large maps is that heavy infantry can't keep up in terms of range. Two "witch-forward" units for heavy infantry, like the sluggish Triarii, seemed insufficient on large maps. That's one problem; the other, of course, is combat effectiveness. I'll take a closer look at these points and, as mentioned, adjust accordingly. It's not so easy to balance the units properly. Naturally, I want to make sure that every unit has its place on the battlefield; otherwise, there's no point in creating them. It's always good to read different opinions; perhaps a good middle ground will emerge.

Yes, I suspected that the very slow pikemen were one of the causes of these changes.
Two move is enough in a "battle scenario", but useless in a larger one. Hence the need to increase their move from 2 to 3.
But if pikemen become as fast as heavy infantry, it is necessary to also give them more speed ; but suddenly heavy infantry become as fast as light infantry etc...
In my opinion, the problem is : how units that are supposed to be slow in battle can keep the pace in a large map ?

I've thought of a possible solution.


In vanilla Panzer Corps, we use motorized transport to increase the speed of the infantry. Obviously, this solution would be completely inconsistent with an ancient theme. Those who have horses use them for fighting ; and chariots are more for supplies and the wounded (and in any case, they wouldn't be any faster than men on foot). So, I agree about your "no transports" policy.

The solution I'm thinking of might be to give the slowest infantry units a marching formation, which can be activated with the green function button. Their movements would increase from 2 (or 3) to 4, but their defenses and attacks would become abysmally low in that formation, leaving them as weak as skirmishers if they were to be engaged in combat.

There would be several advantages in terms of game mechanics.
- Obviously, this allows units that are slow in combat to participate in large scenarios. They need to be defended during movement and require a few turns to set up, but it would be possible to create large scenarios (like Alexander's campaign, why not?) punctuated by battles in which the player could deploy heavy and inflexible phalanxes, slowly advancing on the ennemy, before redeploying fast for the next battle ;
- Slow infantry can still retreat hastily from a dangerous front line with the marching formation, but must do so behind a wall of units to protect them from being destroyed due to their low defense value. This increases the need for the player to always have reserves ;
- Light infantry automatically gains a new role. Since they already have a movement of 4 (and therefore don't need a marching formation), they have every incentive to open a large marching column, as they are already ready for combat. They can absorb the initial shock of a surprise attack or quickly engage an enemy line while the heavier infantry (which would need a turn to change formation) takes up positions behind them. Mechanically, Hastatis and Principes regain their true historical role, by the way


I think this solution for the marching formation would be the most mechanically elegant.
HOWEVER, this would require working on each infantry unit with a speed of 2 or 3, creating their icons, their own line in the equipment file, etc... And I understand it could be a titanic work that you don't necessarily want to do

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Hi Imeror, I think your idea with the marching formation is genuinely excellent. The more I think about it, the more it feels like the most elegant mechanical solution for large maps without breaking the ancient setting. So I’ll probably bite the bullet and implement it — each of the heavier, slower infantry units will get a switchable “fast march” mode. It’s going to be quite a bit of work across all factions, but I believe it’s a good compromise and should help rebalance things by restoring clearer battlefield roles while still letting those units keep pace in large scenarios. übersetze: Thanks again for suggesting it. I was honestly very close to doing something much simpler but far less satisfying, like just giving the slow units transports. It would have been easier, but it never really felt right. The thought of Triarii being chauffeured to the front on horse carts — or worse, ox wagons — gave me a good laugh, but also confirmed that it wasn’t the direction I wanted to take. So yes, more work ahead, but I think this will be worth it. Thanks for pushing me in a better direction.

[Imeror]

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Hi Imeror, I think your idea with the marching formation is genuinely excellent. The more I think about it, the more it feels like the most elegant mechanical solution for large maps without breaking the ancient setting. So I’ll probably bite the bullet and implement it — each of the heavier, slower infantry units will get a switchable “fast march” mode. It’s going to be quite a bit of work across all factions, but I believe it’s a good compromise and should help rebalance things by restoring clearer battlefield roles while still letting those units keep pace in large scenarios. übersetze: Thanks again for suggesting it. I was honestly very close to doing something much simpler but far less satisfying, like just giving the slow units transports. It would have been easier, but it never really felt right. The thought of Triarii being chauffeured to the front on horse carts — or worse, ox wagons — gave me a good laugh, but also confirmed that it wasn’t the direction I wanted to take. So yes, more work ahead, but I think this will be worth it. Thanks for pushing me in a better direction.

Now that I think again about it, there is maybe another option that could requiere less work (but inferior to a solution with the marching formation with the green function button).

For each factions, you could create a generic transport called "march formation" (or something like that) with an icon just representing generic soldiers of that faction marching. Same characteristics than what we imagined : 4 moves but very low attack and defense values. More importantly : each infantry unit could purchase it for free.
It's a good solution if you want to be fast, since it requieres only one more unit per faction.

I would however largely prefer to have something with the green function button (since it requieres more set up for the player to deploy them, contrary to a "march transport" that automatically return to the normal unit at the start of each turn) but if you want to avoid too much work : know that this solution also exist.



Anyway, I let you work, before Uzbek find me to ask where are my next campaigns
(PS : don't worry, my central asian friend : 492 AUB is close to be released, 6 scenarios ready on the 8 planned. )

[Tobi72]

You can tell from the icon that the unit has switched into fast march mode. Creating separate unit graphics for every slow unit just to represent this felt unnecessary to me.

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[bondjamesbond]

Well, you've done it! The next unit pack will also include new sounds—Spartans!!!!—Aahuu-Aahuu-Aahuu, so you'll have another earworm. Aahuu.png
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May I introduce you to the Macedonians? We still need more buildings like temples, merchants, and maybe a small stone castle. The picture shows the watchtower and the army camp.

MKN.png

We destroyed temples, killed enemies, and even captured a Roman diplomat. On one hex with wolves, my squad of barbarians suddenly turned into a squad of nudists. Tell me, Toby, if I upgrade them to something cool, will the number 20 disappear, or will the squad also have 20? I have to defeat the Roman army, but it's too bad that the captured diplomat can't become my spy.

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Anyway, I let you work, before Uzbek find me to ask where are my next campaigns
(PS : don't worry, my central asian friend : 492 AUB is close to be released, 6 scenarios ready on the 8 planned. )

A friend from Central Asia is waiting for modern warfare together with the Serbs ))) Our Celtic Roman Macedonian is doing a great job with ancient times )))

[Tobi72]

That's a good question, I haven't tried that yet. Try simply converting this unit; you can save beforehand.Let us know if it worked and retained the full amount.