Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[iceFlame]

If you will not handle them as Untermensch (slaves) they could be your ally. After freeing from the terror of Stalin they could...

Absolutely. In fact I think this was one of the biggest mistakes made post-Barbarossa. Come to think of it, I already said as much earlier in the thread so I won't repeat myself here.

So far we have 2 different icons for the Bf-110C and D, which leaves only the F. (The G is already different as it has another colour scheme.)
And maybe something for the Bf-109G2, G-6, and G-14.

Here's my last entry in the Zerstorer sweepstakes. It's actually a bit of a hybrid as I took the insignia from StG51, (mostly 'cause I like the look on the 110).

StG_51-Bolt.png (42.15 KiB) Viewed 5675 times

Okay, so I'm done with the 110's. But while we're on the subject of cleaning house...

This is the last thing I'm gonna do with victory hexes... Honest.

First off, I really like the look of the searchlights - but the 'beams' just aren't doing it for me. This being the case, I've decided to go with a Radio Command Tower. The idea here is that each victory hex represents a crucial communication centre [link] in the enemy's command network.

Take one and the enemy's command and control begins to break down in the area, leading to disorganization, communication degradation and the loss of effective coordination. This way victory hexes can help bring the the concept of electronic warfare to the battlefield.

Here it is in-game:



And a close up:

victoryhex.png (7.55 KiB) Viewed 5675 times

The thing is that, no matter how much you like a nose art, it should not be overrepresented and it should not suppress the main features of the unit, at least in my opinion.

Well, those were actual insignias so if they're 'overrepresented' then I guess The Luftwaffe shouldn't have been so gauche. But seriously, if they seem a little large for the canvas, then it was merely due to trying to convey as much detail as possible into a small area rather than ending up with an indistinguishable blob.

And sorry, but I cannot accept screenshots from Il-2 Sturmovik, I want contemporary b&w photos as a proof, which can also be used as the bigunit picture in the unit information table.

Not an IL-2 fan? Ouch!

No worries, I only used those because they showed the green camo pattern. There's lots of images around with the Wasp and Shark but most don't have the green body. Also, I do have matching big units for them, but it sounds like you already have something in mind so I'll pass on that.

Also, quite like the night fighter antenna. Nice addition.

[iceFlame]

For Battle of the Bulge, the Player is told to capture the Key port of Antwerp. Taking it should instantly cause the Allies to lose lots of prestige and gain the German Player some more as a fact. Maybe if you can, you can make the Allies sign a Peace Treaty...

Great idea. Would certainly add a lot of incentive to make it to Antwerp at all costs. But even beyond this, all of your Western Front scripting ideas would likely enhance the mod considerably. Given the limit in the AI zones, I suppose it comes down to priorities. That is, whether these enhancements might prove better than certain others that are already included.

Well Metz was a rather Bloody affair... Not to mention the strategic value (and political value with the French)... Sun Tzu always said NEVER attack an entrenched enemy blindly.

Just goes to show what happens when politics and pride become your two commanding officers.

[phcas]

Hello and thanks for the Bf-110 graphics. I was thinking of the nightfighter version and how to use it in the game. This is what I was thinking about:

Bf-110 G Nightfighter:

Fighter (no tactical bomber)
Vision 1 hex (becausse of darkness. It has a radar but not for ground targets)
Recon movement! (Multiple moves in a turn to pull back in the cover of darkness)
Ground and naval attack down to 1
Initiativ 10 (Night suprise)

If you give the unit this statistics it's intresting to buy and use it in the game, even if the nummer of airattack is lower than that of other fighters.

Caspar

[McGuba]

LandMarine47 wrote:
Perhaps remove an AI zone from another area? While I under stand no Metz or Holland zones, Paris needs to have one. As for the Free French, after Paris fell, former French Partisans joined the Newley formed French Army, but had no real artillery. They did have tanks however!

You are absolutely right, Paris would deserve its own AI zone, but there is just not enough at the moment. Believe it or not, e.g. currently even Stalingrad does not have its own AI zone. Sad, but true: I need some AI zones for the main objectives like England, some for the prestige allocation system, some for the partisans, some for the various allied landing beaches, some for the Battle of the Atlantic, which leaves only a hanful of AI zones that I can use for certain battles. And these only include the most decisive ones such as Moscow or Kursk. There is just not enough AI zones and I doubt that I could remove any of these existing ones as it could have unforseeable effects.

I was even forced to use several AI zones for different tasks, which is not ideal at all. Under certain circumstances these can conflict each other leading to weird AI behaviour, or even worse, game crash. Thus I have to be very cautious when assigning and scripting these zones to avoid such outcome.

The only option is to get more AI zones, I guess.

Isnoop wrote:
Well, I would suggest "desaturating" the victory hexes to black and white (as well as the adjacent German territory) - like in Saboteur but vice versa . But it's not possible, is it?

I am afraid it is not.
But, keep trying.

Uhu wrote:
If you will not handle them as Untermensch (slaves) they could be your ally. After freeing from the terror of Stalin they could...

iceFlame wrote:
Absolutely. In fact I think this was one of the biggest mistakes made post-Barbarossa. Come to think of it, I already said as much earlier in the thread so I won't repeat myself here.

There is no doubt that it was a big mistake, even the Germans started to realize it by 1943, but by then it was too late to make it better. However, as in this mod the nazi leaders are supposed to be removed from power in 1941, the occupation policy is supposed be a different one as well. Hopefully a more reasonable and acceptable one. Still, Moscow will continue to support those commie partisans in the hinterland, and try to make trouble in every possible way.

Here's my last entry in the Zerstorer sweepstakes. It's actually a bit of a hybrid as I took the insignia from StG51, (mostly 'cause I like the look on the 110).

OK, but psssh! Do not let BNC know about this, as it will really drive him crazy!

Okay, so I'm done with the 110's. But while we're on the subject of cleaning house...

This is the last thing I'm gonna do with victory hexes... Honest.

Or, maybe not.

First off, I really like the look of the searchlights - but the 'beams' just aren't doing it for me. This being the case, I've decided to go with a Radio Command Tower. The idea here is that each victory hex represents a crucial communication centre [link] in the enemy's command network.

This victory hex theme really gives me a headache. No radioactive glowing flag? No target reticle? No iron cross? No push pins? No search lights? No nothing? Sorry, but I want a break now. Where is the beer!?

What we really need is this:



The big idea. With large capital letters. While I like your radio station idea in general, I think this blue colour is a bit out of place here. Reminds me of this, if you do not mind my blantancy, sorry:
http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/searc ... r2=piv-web

Maybe if it was red and white, dunno.

Well, those were actual insignias so if they're 'overrepresented' then I guess The Luftwaffe shouldn't have been so gauche. But seriously, if they seem a little large for the canvas, then it was merely due to trying to convey as much detail as possible into a small area rather than ending up with an indistinguishable blob.

I understand, but a good balance has to be found, which is not easy for sure.

Not an IL-2 fan? Ouch!

Of course, I am, it is just some modders may have added the wrong insignia to the wrong plane, so I like to see things on actual WW2 photos before implementing them.

Western Front scripting ideas would likely enhance the mod considerably. Given the limit in the AI zones, I suppose it comes down to priorities. That is, whether these enhancements might prove better than certain others that are already included.

Sure, I would only add that it would also mean a serious rework and re-testing, which would take some time...

phcas wrote:
Hello and thanks for the Bf-110 graphics.

Hi, and you are welcome!

I was thinking of the nightfighter version and how to use it in the game. This is what I was thinking about:

The problem here is that there are no night turns. I mean like the ones we had in Pacific General. Night fighters (and bombers) would only start to "shine" under those circumstancies IMO. By the way I like your thinking, I just do not feel ready to implement such radical gamerule changes. Also the player could attack US day bombers as well with it in the same way, making this method a bit unrealistic.

[LandMarine47]

I didn't know that! The shortage of AI zones must be serious! A shame really if only Panzer Corps would add some more zones. We ran into the same problem in Battle Academy at the 64 unit limit barriers. I guess the only way for this is to either
A. Remove an AI zone from a particular battle (Sealion or Moscow 43 or 44) or
B. Remove an Atlantic, or Partisan zone or
C. Leave the AI as it is.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Hey - I had the same problem with War of the World!

Do remember that the game is designed for Poland-size things or smaller. The engine isn't really built for all of Europe, or all of the World!

- BNC

[guille1434]

So... let's start bugging the developers to expand the game engine capabilities in future patches or versions of this marvellous game... The best must be made better still!

[iceFlame]

Maybe if it was red and white, dunno.

Yeah, I looked at it again and was thinking the same thing.

victoryhex.png (7.55 KiB) Viewed 5561 times

The color on this one seems to match the overall look of the map better, plus I adjusted the shadows to take some of the 'glare' out of it. It's tricky 'cause you need it to stand out, but also 'blend' at the same time.

So... let's start bugging the developers to expand the game engine capabilities in future patches or versions of this marvellous game... The best must be made better still!

I like your idea. Where do I sign up?

[McGuba]

LandMarine47 wrote:
I didn't know that! The shortage of AI zones must be serious! A shame really if only Panzer Corps would add some more zones. We ran into the same problem in Battle Academy at the 64 unit limit barriers. I guess the only way for this is to either
A. Remove an AI zone from a particular battle (Sealion or Moscow 43 or 44) or
B. Remove an Atlantic, or Partisan zone or
C. Leave the AI as it is.

I would not like to remove existing AI zones, as it is not so easy: many units are governed by them and these units have to be changed as well. And it is quite hard to find the relevant units, as there are hundreds of pre-placed Allied units on the map and one has to go through all of these to check their settings.

BNC wrote:
Hey - I had the same problem with War of the World!

guille1434 wrote:
So... let's start bugging the developers to expand the game engine capabilities in future patches or versions of this marvellous game... The best must be made better still!

I like your idea. Where do I sign up?

For as start maybe here:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 82#p461182

If there are enough guys writing there and signing it, and there is still no answere, we can write to Rudankort directly. As far as I know he is charge of the development of the game mechanics.

iceFlame wrote:
Yeah, I looked at it again and was thinking the same thing.

The color on this one seems to match the overall look of the map better, plus I adjusted the shadows to take some of the 'glare' out of it. It's tricky 'cause you need it to stand out, but also 'blend' at the same time.

I agree, that's why it has been so difficult to find a suitable image. By the way, I like this radio tower thingy, it really blends with the background. (Maybe a bit too much, though. I wonder if it stands out enough for everyone?) I would only make a little adjustment: in the tactical map the light source comes from the right side and thus all the unit icon shadows are on the left side, and the right side of the units is always lighter. And the same applies for the buildings of the cities. So, it should have a some shadow on the left side, and the left side of the tower should be a bit darker. Other than that, I like it, and now I would really like find a solution to this problem as v1.1 is basically finished and waiting for release.

[Kalostaphor]

Might as well ask this cuz its bothering me to no end but how many core slots (deployment slots) do I get for each scenario?

Right now I am in scenario france I have 9 deployment slots, how much does this increase by from greece to barbarossa?

[McGuba]

You should have 9 core slots in the first three scenarios. By default you have 7 core ground plus 2 core air units. You do not get more slots in those early scenarios, but in the big barbarossa scenario you will gain control of all the Axis units. I wanted to make this restriction so that the player can start Barbarossa with a historical core.

[Kalostaphor]

You should have 9 core slots in the first three scenarios. By default you have 7 core ground plus 2 core air units. You do not get more slots in those early scenarios, but in the big barbarossa scenario you will gain control of all the Axis units. I wanted to make this restriction so that the player can start Barbarossa with a historical core.

Yah I counted wrong by not adding the 2 air units, Pretty small for a core but its enough to make a difference if I manage to give them good amount of experience before barbarossa comes

[guille1434]

IceFlame: Your latest radio signals tower icon for victory hexes is very nice! I did not like very much the previous one (white and blue one) but this is the best "victory hex" marker yet, in my opinion (the second one would be the searchlights). Thumbs up!

Ice & Mac: May be we can all toghether compose a text document with the improvements we would want to see in the game and each one post it in this forum and, perhaps in the matrix forum also to take the developers attention to what is the fan base asking for! What do you think?

[Kalostaphor]

Oh man North Africa is a blood hard challenge in barbarossa, Tobruk and El Alamein are almost impossible to breach unless I bring every possible non-eastern front occupied unit to help break through (especially good artillery, which I lack the most in africa).

Though this is one fun scenario, but I feel like if I dont keep reloading my games if I get a bad dice roll I feel like I will be on the path of losing the game much faster then what happened in real life

[McGuba]

guille1434 wrote:
IceFlame: Your latest radio signals tower icon for victory hexes is very nice! I did not like very much the previous one (white and blue one) but this is the best "victory hex" marker yet, in my opinion (the second one would be the searchlights). Thumbs up!

And I have to say I agree.

Ice & Mac: May be we can all toghether compose a text document with the improvements we would want to see in the game and each one post it in this forum and, perhaps in the matrix forum also to take the developers attention to what is the fan base asking for! What do you think?

Sure, I already made a request here (not sure if they are reading it, though):

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 9&start=40

And of course I would support any other requests for further improvement.

Gaurav251
Oh man North Africa is a blood hard challenge in barbarossa, Tobruk and El Alamein are almost impossible to breach unless I bring every possible non-eastern front occupied unit to help break through (especially good artillery, which I lack the most in africa).

Well, yeah, this is not supposed to be an easy campaign. Historically even Rommel was unable to breach the defenses of El Alamein and he is believed to be one of the best generals by many. In particular of the North African theatre, I tried to reflect historical numbers and ratios. The British usually had 2-3 times more tanks than the Germans and Italians combined. And those Italian tanks, well... we all know what they are good for...
As for Tobruk, all you need is some time and possibly one extra arty, preferably 15cm one, and maybe a pioneer unit against those bunkers. One-two extra tank from the mainland as reinforcement is also needed if you want to hold the ground in Africa.

My suggestions:
- the "88" Flak in AT role can be a war winning weapon in North Africa, as historically. Use the Axis tanks to shield it until it gets close to the enemy tanks, than add some arty support to suppress the enemy tank and then move in the "88" to attack to gain the kills. In some of my test plays it was destroyed, and I just could not advance any further until I transported there another one to replace it.
- since the history shows that the Axis were unable to break through at Alamein, you may need to try something else: I would suggest a landing in Palestine, in the back of the British defenses. If you manage to land like 12-14 units near Jerusalem-Beirut, they can attack the Nile Delta from the back, AND advance to take the oil fields of the Middle East. Win-win.

Here is an image showing the general situation in turn 25 from my last test play, when I decided to go against the Western Allies:



As you can see, I managed to get a foothold in Southern England, after some heavy fighting and some serious losses. Most of my ships are gone, but their sacrifice was not in vain, as my army is in good poisiton to advance towards London and beyond. By the way, I started the landing operation in early 1942, when the weather started to improve allowing the Luftwaffe to support the invasion. A few fighter upgrages to Fw-190 is also a must to counter the RAF, IMO.

I took a similar force of about 14 ground units of different type to Greece, they are about to board the naval transports which are no longer needed by the Sealion force, and to set sail to Palestine. As you can see, Tobruk is still under siege, but it would fall in some time. Some Italain naval artillery barrage also helps here to weaken its defenses. But, only after I escorted the other landing force to Palestine...

In the Eastern Front I am on purely defense. The Soviets will eventually start their offensives so a strong defensive line is necessary. Also, the Romanians may decide to change side at some point if the Red Army tanks get too close to their border.

[Kalostaphor]

By the way I have to say you have done a wonderful job of modelling the 'Kiev or Moscow' choice in barbarossa, I can go after the bottom 4 hex marks but the 2 on the top require some units that are going towards Moscow and oddly that is where there is the heaviest opposition blocking my path (So I have to send more then just 2 panzers to go take it), also it seems moscow isnt as well defended as I thought (most of the fortifications are empty with 1 infantry gaurding and an artillery piece) but by the time I get there its winter and the mass hordes of soviet tanks start showing up everywhere! Looks like its going to be a long war, and I dont mind it at all

[McGuba]

yeah, we had a very interesting discussion about this with iceFlame here a couple pages earlier, so in the end I decided to implement it as much as I could. Basicallay there are two options (or maybe three):

Plan A - rush forward to take Moscow before winter fells and forget about encircling Kiev - it needs a well coordinated and supported attack, but, if you can park a tank unit in the car park of the Kermlin by turn 11, the number of Soviet counter attacking units will be significantly less, simulating the confusion and chaos caused by the capture of the Kremlin (and who knows, maybe Uncle Joes's as well ). Also, if you manage to hold on to Moscow, the Soviets will get less new units as reinforcements from 1943. The downside is that if the player do not encircle the army a Kiev they will too start a counter offensive making the life of Army Group South quite difficult for a time.

Plan B - the historical path: encircle Kiev and thus destroy the army there, but in this case capturing a victory hex in Moscow by turn 11 and hold on to it is quite dificult if possible at all. Which brings us to Plan C:

Plan C - try to get at least one unit into Moscow by turn 11 and hold on to it, while somehow encircle Kiev as well at the same time. This is the most difficult (if possible at all), and it has the drawback if you fail, you will have to face not just one, but two major Soviet counter-offensives: one at Moscow and one at Kiev.

A real all-or-nothing gamble...

[McGuba]

quoting myself:

I would only make a little adjustment: in the tactical map the light source comes from the right side and thus all the unit icon shadows are on the left side, and the right side of the units is always lighter.

somehow like this:



what do you think?



I think it stands out well enough even if surrounded by lots of units:




however, some units may overlap it, but it is acceptable I think:

[Rockety]

all we need is a light on top of it now

[iceFlame]

For as start maybe here:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 82#p461182

If there are enough guys writing there and signing it, and there is still no answere, we can write to Rudankort directly. As far as I know he is charge of the development of the game mechanics.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll probably add a post there as well, as extra AI zones would add so much game capability as to be well worth the effort.

I agree, that's why it has been so difficult to find a suitable image. By the way, I like this radio tower thingy, it really blends with the background. (Maybe a bit too much, though. I wonder if it stands out enough for everyone?) I would only make a little adjustment: in the tactical map the light source comes from the right side and thus all the unit icon shadows are on the left side, and the right side of the units is always lighter. And the same applies for the buildings of the cities. So, it should have a some shadow on the left side, and the left side of the tower should be a bit darker. Other than that, I like it, and now I would really like find a solution to this problem as v1.1 is basically finished and waiting for release.

Point well taken. I've been busy playing, (yes that's right - actually playing) and working on a couple of other mini-mods ), but yeah, I think your shadow idea is right on.

IceFlame: Your latest radio signals tower icon for victory hexes is very nice! I did not like very much the previous one (white and blue one) but this is the best "victory hex" marker yet, in my opinion (the second one would be the searchlights). Thumbs up!

Ice & Mac: May be we can all toghether compose a text document with the improvements we would want to see in the game and each one post it in this forum and, perhaps in the matrix forum also to take the developers attention to what is the fan base asking for! What do you think?

Thanks for the thumbs up on the victory hex!

And yes, I do agree about working together to try and get the developers attention. I'll be glad to do my part.

By the way I have to say you have done a wonderful job of modelling the 'Kiev or Moscow' choice in barbarossa...

This is great. I'm especially happy to hear it was implemented so well as 'Kiev or Moscow' was such a critical turning point in real life. I guess we'll have to give the author a special congrats for a job well done!

quoting myself:

I would only make a little adjustment: in the tactical map the light source comes from the right side and thus all the unit icon shadows are on the left side, and the right side of the units is always lighter.

somehow like this:



what do you think?

The shaded side adds good definition. It really seems to bring it into line with the rest of the icons. Nice job adding the finishing touches!

all we need is a light on top of it now

Not sure if a light would work, as it might be covered by other units during times of 'ownership disputes'. The reason I say this is during some of my initial tests I noticed some slight overlapping, so it's already 'pushing the envelope' so to speak.