DLC 44 Grand Campaign East arrives

[boredatwork]

I was under the impression that the game was about picking the units YOU want, and using the strategy YOU want, and winning the game. If you suck as a player, having the best units on the board is not going to help you. If you want a game where you are told what units you can or cannot use, call it something other than Panzer Corps, or make this an optional choice.

You haven't answered the question - if under the new rules you can still BY DEFAULT build EXACTLY the SAME core as you can now, whatever that core may be, HOW exactly does it impact your enjoyment of the game to give other players more CHOICE of EQUALLY viable strategies?

[MartyWard]

I said I have no problem with his system being implemented as long as it is OPTIONAL, not the new default standard.

Why would a system that does nothing but add more options to the way players play - and takes NONE away - need to be made optional? The proposal would allow EVERY player to choose the core he wants and not just those who are happy to fill limited slots with the best equipment (getting dizzy with going round in circles here). Please don't come back with the cheat codes solution - that's no solution at all.

It would change the way the current system plays now unless you are assuming that the prestige cap would allow you to field the current number of top of the line units and some additional number of lesser units if you chose not to buy top of the line. Say for kicks you wanted a core completely full of Tiger II's and the slot limit was 30. How many Pz IVF and Stug IIIG could you field in their place for 30,000 prestige (or what ever 30 x Tiger II costs)? Could the map handle all the additional units? Can the AI?
I can think of just as many 'odd' situation arising from the prestige cap as from the slot system, for example fieldng complete infantry divisions requiring 100 units or air forces the size of armies. I think it should be optional or the current system should be an option if they change it because the game is fun now and anyone can play with the core they want right now, yes using sheat codes which are part of the game.

[El_Condoro]

From the end of p.9 of this now 14 page thread!

There would be an upper number of units - the current slots - to prevent the spamming of too many cheap units. The slot limit would be relatively high, though, compared to current slot limits.

It's the only real objection I can see to the proposal and is a practical one from a scenario designer's point of view. Anyway, over to the developers and the continued evolution of the game...

[krugec]

I loved return to kisinev scenario. Budapest is also tricky depending if it keeps snowing or not.

[krugec]

about the equipment debate, you can't really deploy all king tigers and jet planes, and rocket artillery if you didn't cheat in some way during 1939-44 DLCs. Over strengthening a tiger II costs 500 prestige.

By cheating I consider loading the autosave to prevent losing a unit as well as knowing where the enemy is coming from and similar stuff.

[deducter]

about the equipment debate, you can't really deploy all king tigers and jet planes, and rocket artillery if you didn't cheat in some way during 1939-44 DLCs. Over strengthening a tiger II costs 500 prestige.

By cheating I consider loading the autosave to prevent losing a unit as well as knowing where the enemy is coming from and similar stuff.

This extremely possible. It is well-documented on the forums that you can save up obscene amounts of prestige by 1943 (40k is not uncommon.) Upgrade to all Tigers and Panthers, overstrength them all, and it actually saves you prestige since you almost never take any damage from the Soviets. There is about 40k prestige available in 1943. So you'll end up with more than enough to upgrade whatever you want in 1943. Charonjr did Manstein on 1943 starting with 40k prestige, and he ended up with 30k prestige at the end using this type of core. (Edit: I should clarify Charonjr started out on FM. If you play Manstein for all DLCs, you can't have 40k prestige by 1943, but it is quite possible to save up enough to get things going, 10k is probably doable).

500 prestige to overstrength a Tiger II is nothing, since that Tiger II will rarely if ever lose a strength point. 500 prestige for a Panzer IVH is a lot, since that green Panzer IVH, unless carefully guarded, will get destroyed by the Soviets.

[boredatwork]

On a semi related topic is it possible, or would it be possible to add the ability to mod difficulty levels?

The ability to change the base value of the AI forces from the standard base 10 is a more controllable way to change difficulty rather than trying to handicap prestige - the only problem with the current implementation is it's an arbitrary +5 (Manstein). Giving me the option to start out at +1 in the early scenarios and gradually build up to +5 or even higher would better suit my playstyle/difficulty requirements than the current arbitrary FM/+5 choice.

[MartyWard]

This extremely possible. It is well-documented on the forums that you can save up obscene amounts of prestige by 1943 (40k is not uncommon.)

I have never had more than 15k in prestige. Maybe it is not uncommon for some but formany it IS uncommon to have basically unlimited prestige.

[Rudankort]

On a semi related topic is it possible, or would it be possible to add the ability to mod difficulty levels?

The ability to change the base value of the AI forces from the standard base 10 is a more controllable way to change difficulty rather than trying to handicap prestige - the only problem with the current implementation is it's an arbitrary +5 (Manstein). Giving me the option to start out at +1 in the early scenarios and gradually build up to +5 or even higher would better suit my playstyle/difficulty requirements than the current arbitrary FM/+5 choice.

I'll see what I can do about this.

[airbornemongo101]

Weclome back Rudankort.

It's great to see you posting again

[dks]

This extremely possible. It is well-documented on the forums that you can save up obscene amounts of prestige by 1943 (40k is not uncommon.)

I have never had more than 15k in prestige. Maybe it is not uncommon for some but formany it IS uncommon to have basically unlimited prestige.

I'm playing at FM. I've just finished 43' and at Vilna deploy of 44'. I don't consider myself a poor player or a tactical genious. just a middle of the road guy that enjoys what PzC has to offer for the first time. not looking at the maps from somewhere in 42' I believe when I was playing Colonel to now. no sneak peeks. no searching the forum for the best solutions such as deducters (((great))) videos. looked at one of the early 40's once. was not a AI tester. pretty much on my own to play my style of play. because that's what PzC offers me. a style I like personally.

that said, I'm like MartyWard as prestige goes. I have never had 40K prestige thru this my FM campaign. I have been as low as 332 prestige after rebuilds at deploy Kiev43. most of the time I maintain between 2000 and 4000 after rebuilds at deploy turn. that includes upgrades and new purchases of equipment.

I have a wide assortment of equipment. from spats, spa's, towed arty, inf to flaks to rail guns. just upgraded my first panzer to a Tiger II at Babruysk battle only because I recieved a SE Pz IVF/2 from HQ at a very late time of the campaign. then for fun, I upgraded my old (2) Tiger I's to II's[edit] with three stars to see what they could do at Minsk44 and they got hit hard as I went on the offensive which most of the time I go for everything the Soviets own. units and all because that's my style of play.

for me, the prestige allotments and deliveries in PzC work. not too much like old PG. just enough so I can feal free to upgrade and try different equipment or make mistakes as I always do in my tactics and be able to come back and fight again the next scenario or GC. in this case I am surviving to start the 45' que de gras of an excellent and fun experience.

I'm not thru with PzC as it is. next comes my attempt at some house rules and lesser equipment now that I have the advantage of playing the campaign completey thru. again I will have fun limiting myself and probably get my butt kicked

[brettz123]

about the equipment debate, you can't really deploy all king tigers and jet planes, and rocket artillery if you didn't cheat in some way during 1939-44 DLCs. Over strengthening a tiger II costs 500 prestige.

By cheating I consider loading the autosave to prevent losing a unit as well as knowing where the enemy is coming from and similar stuff.

Please that is ridicules. I went into the 44 campaign having played on FM all the way through and had just over 40,000 prestige. I am half-way through 44 and I still have 23,000 prestige to upgrade my fighters to jets. This includes all my tanks upgraded to King Tigers or Panthers depending on what I want to use them for. No reloading here and I have only lost one CORE unit.

[brettz123]

On a semi related topic is it possible, or would it be possible to add the ability to mod difficulty levels?

The ability to change the base value of the AI forces from the standard base 10 is a more controllable way to change difficulty rather than trying to handicap prestige - the only problem with the current implementation is it's an arbitrary +5 (Manstein). Giving me the option to start out at +1 in the early scenarios and gradually build up to +5 or even higher would better suit my playstyle/difficulty requirements than the current arbitrary FM/+5 choice.

I'll see what I can do about this.

Yes please this would be a great thing to do. It would make the earlier DLCs a little harder but not a grind.

[AgentTBC]

Yeah, building up obscene amounts of prestige is really easy on any of the base difficulty levels. I don't know what it is like on Guderian, never having played it. I expect you can still build up a ton since the only difference is you have 5 fewer turns to get a DV? Obviously that will likely mean fewer DVs, but that's still plenty of prestige to go around.

[shawkhan]

In order to build up prestige it is only necessary to forgo most of the expensive bells and whistles of the early years. Don't buy the latest panzers, don't use any transport better than trucks and only take regular replacements until 1941. Infantry and the basic towed artillery are fine until Barbarossa time. I also saved 40k prestige by following this route. In 1944 I still have 37k, playing on FM.

[dks]

for those with the high amounts of prestige on FM. did you replay the GC's from another period? say at Colonel? did you have advance forsight of the maps? know where and what to expect after seeing the maps? was it a first time play of the campaign from 39' on at FM. cold turkey?

[soldier]

Regarding prestige
I customized or cut the rate of experience gain in my DLC files drastically on field Marshall setting (from 100 % exp for the first star down to 20%) and havn't been able to save massive amounts mentioned above despite a very successful campaign. Nearly every penny iv'e earned has been spent on keeping my elite forces at a higher exp level than the AI. I've been reasonably comfortable prestige wise throughout the first 3 DLC's but the moneys definitely drying up in late 42 and I can no longer upgrade all units to the latest and greatest.
I'm not sure if the stars are worth it as a valid strategy considering the amount of cash I've been spending and I'm not sure how others play it but its a habit from the old PG and a challenge.

[brettz123]

In order to build up prestige it is only necessary to forgo most of the expensive bells and whistles of the early years. Don't buy the latest panzers, don't use any transport better than trucks and only take regular replacements until 1941. Infantry and the basic towed artillery are fine until Barbarossa time. I also saved 40k prestige by following this route. In 1944 I still have 37k, playing on FM.

No you don't need to do any of that. I start using elite reinforcements during 1939 DLC and I upgrade to the best of everything (well within the class anyway when it comes to tanks). And I always upgrade to the best transports as soon as possible. All of these things save prestige in the long run by making you able to get more objectives in some scenarios and by reducing casualties. Staying with trucks is a huge mistake.

[brettz123]

Regarding prestige
I customized or cut the rate of experience gain in my DLC files drastically on field Marshall setting (from 100 % exp for the first star down to 20%) and havn't been able to save massive amounts mentioned above despite a very successful campaign. Nearly every penny iv'e earned has been spent on keeping my elite forces at a higher exp level than the AI. I've been reasonably comfortable prestige wise throughout the first 3 DLC's but the moneys definitely drying up in late 42 and I can no longer upgrade all units to the latest and greatest.
I'm not sure if the stars are worth it as a valid strategy considering the amount of cash I've been spending and I'm not sure how others play it but its a habit from the old PG and a challenge.

I never overstrength my units but the stars are worth it without a doubt. On the later DLCs (42 onwards) you can really tell the difference between experienced units and ones that say only have 2 stars. It really makes a large difference (though some of that is certainly due to heroes).

[soldier]

40 k for the start of 43 really does sound like plenty though. That should keep me up to date with the latest kit and going strongly (I hope ).