Panzer Corps Tournament 2020

[Shilod]

Goose_2 Now this whole situation looks like discrimination of the Russian player Rishat. The community of Russian players in February 28 will consider the boycott of the tournament.

Easy, comrade! Why should we boycott the game ? Do you forgot, who won previous tournament ? - His name is Alexrus. I dont know, what happens with Rishat and why he was fired. But, imho, we need to continue our fight. And. at last - its just a game. Hope to meet you in final

[rishat]

in goose's defense, he didn't actually say that rishat load 80 times, he was explaining to me how someone can cheat and he gave an example of someone reloading 80 times
i myself thought rishat actually loaded 80 times when he played against me and i asked him(rishat) in the email about it, so the 80 thingy is my mistake.

AMDonline, it's not good from your side ... You wrote me that Goose_2 told you that every turn I restarted 80 times, and that's why I was suspended from the tournament.
Long silence of Goose_2, and your attempt to justify it, obviously shows that Goose_2 used this time, in order to put pressure on you.
All information about the downloads is stored on the game server, and I asked Rudankort to send it to me.
And in reality, I rebooted only 2 times per scenario. And for this I was suspended from the tournament.
Here's the download statistics:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7gp4v5kn2h94 ... 2.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2ejk9f82c173 ... 1.png?dl=0
For example, my first opponent in Poland rebooted 4 times only in one turn:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4fb6bbjo0p4n ... 8.png?dl=0
Was he expelled from the tournament? No. He won't win Goose_2. And I won before the tournament. And I won in the paired scenario for both sides. And in such a mean way, Goose_2 decided to remove a strong opponent. And if he also removes the other participants, then I can congratulate him on the victory. And Goose_2 is already discussed in Russian forums.
Although my first opponent rebooted, I do not doubt his fair game. It's because he has the same problem with the showing the opponent's turn. As I understand, many people have such a problem, but only I was expelled.
Once again look at the statistics:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4fb6bbjo0p4n ... 8.png?dl=0
If you look at the time through which the download was repeated, you can see that in most cases the download was repeated after about 40 seconds, which confirms that in these cases there could not be any deception.
AMDonlin himself broke the rules of the tournament: he did not turn off the "undo" button and used the cancellation of the turn. This is clearly seen on the replays. Despite the fact that I won the match with Amdonlin, I'm ready to replay it, for now it's enough time for this. If, of course, the justice will triumph and I will be allowed to continue the tournament.
I will try to do everything in my power to avoid reboots in the future. And thank you very much StefandK for useful advice, it really helps. And the advice not to move the mouse does not help at all.
I ask the participants of the tournament to support me and demand to restore the tournament. You, of course, can rejoice that a dangerous opponent is eliminated, but then you can be thrown out of the tournament for a single failure and no one will support you.

[rishat]

Goose_2 Now this whole situation looks like discrimination of the Russian player Rishat. The community of Russian players in February 28 will consider the boycott of the tournament.

Easy, comrade! Why should we boycott the game ? Do you forgot, who won previous tournament ? - His name is Alexrus. I dont know, what happens with Rishat and why he was fired. But, imho, we need to continue our fight. And. at last - its just a game. Hope to meet you in final

Maybe that's why they no longer want to let the Russian players win ...

[ratprince]

This whole series of conversations just sounds super shady and odd.

In both my games i never had an "issue" with rebooting. My game does "clock" when seeing the replay, but I just don't do anything and wait. It always pops up with my turn. Its not a big deal to miss the replay.

I am certain with this many players a few might experience pc shut downs, power loss or some other various calamity that causes a reboot. If it is the same player repetitively, logic says that it isn't technical and rather ethical.

I fully support booting cheaters.

[Gwaylare]

Hi rishat

So I am no a slitherine admin and I am not the organiser of a tournament and may be I should not say anything about this, but I just read your statement and analysed the files in there. This data tells a different story then you told us.
In the data it is obvious that you take really a long time for each turn, which indicates that you plan what to do and indeed are a serious player.

In the first file turn 3 you did a download on 19:17:58 and than again at 19:45:48. There is a 25 minutes gap, even a complete computer reboot cannot explain this gap.
Next turn 07:21:36 and again 07:50:54 same picture.

In the second file it is in turn 1. So there is no replay in turn 1, but in most maps turn 1 is really important for the attacker. So first download at 17:09:36, second at 17:14:06, third download 17:16:18 and upload at 17:23:07.

So this are all just facts you have presented, no conclusions. So everyone can make there own conclusions.

For me I can say, yes I did double download as well, when the replay hang. That is in fact a problem. But I never, never never played a turn twice.

The PBEM format Slitherine has launched is really a great format for wargaming. But you have to trust that each player is rolling his dice once. So I appriciate, if Slitherine is very strict with this.

Best regards
Gwaylare

[a432]

I agree with ratprince. 100%

I've never had to reload a turn in this tournament so far. Although in the past, I have experienced the issue of missing the replay and only hearing the sounds. However that is not a good enough reason for anyone to reload their turn in a tournament setting. All you need to do is what ratprince says wait until it is done. Sure you miss seeing the replay but that doesn't matter.

And again what ratpricne says is 100% correct "I am certain with this many players a few might experience pc shut downs, power loss or some other various calamity that causes a reboot. If it is the same player repetitively, logic says that it isn't technical and rather ethical"

Even once reload is a bannable offensive. Especially twice rishat! In addition From the screen shot you post, I see 14-9 so 5 total reloads!
I fully support your ban as you clearly do not mind reloading for an advantage the information you provided shows proof of you cheating as gwaylare points out. 40 seconds is plenty of time to cheat let alone 25 minutes!. Send 2 planes in 2 different directions to reveal location of the enemies defense takes less than 5 seconds.

In addition if you ever have technical difficulties you should tell someone like the tournament director immediately about the problem or else it looks like you are cheating when you talk about it after the fact.

[ClaireRedfieldU]

SHILOD HELLO, YOU WILL NOT BE IN THE COMMUNITY OF THE RUSSIAN PLAYERS PANZER CORPS, FEBRUARY 28 WE WILL RISE THE QUESTION OF THE BOYCOTT TOURNAMENT AMONG THE COMMUNITY.

[rishat]

I agree with ratprince. 100%

I've never had to reload a turn in this tournament so far. Although in the past, I have experienced the issue of missing the replay and only hearing the sounds. However that is not a good enough reason for anyone to reload their turn in a tournament setting. All you need to do is what ratprince says wait until it is done. Sure you miss seeing the replay but that doesn't matter.

And again what ratpricne says is 100% correct "I am certain with this many players a few might experience pc shut downs, power loss or some other various calamity that causes a reboot. If it is the same player repetitively, logic says that it isn't technical and rather ethical"

Even once reload is a bannable offensive. Especially twice rishat! In addition From the screen shot you post, I see 14-9 so 5 total reloads!
I fully support your ban as you clearly do not mind reloading for an advantage the information you provided shows proof of you cheating as gwaylare points out. 40 seconds is plenty of time to cheat let alone 25 minutes!. Send 2 planes in 2 different directions to reveal location of the enemies defense takes less than 5 seconds.

In addition if you ever have technical difficulties you should tell someone like the tournament director immediately about the problem or else it looks like you are cheating when you talk about it after the fact.

I measured with a stopwatch how much time in Poland there is a reflection of the opponent's move. On average, this is 55 seconds. In order to restart the unsuccessful move, you first have to look at the opponent's move for 55 seconds, make your move, turn off the computer, turn on the computer, download the game and then download it again. On this, even with a very fast computer, it takes not 3-5 minutes to reckon. And if a repeat game is loaded after 40 seconds, it means that 100% takeoff when loading the turn, the opponent's move is not fully finished and there is no need to download the computer again. Unfortunately, I never thought about playing time, and after the flight I could be distracted by my wife, my little daughter, my phone, and the like. And then, after returning a long time, it is impossible to prove there was an evil intention or not. There are very few such large intervals.
My first opponent also had a reboot. And the second button was used to cancel the move. I'm ready to play with them at least three times, with the condition that I do not have a single reboot. But exclude from the tournament due to several technical failures is not fair. At the same time why someone was expelled, and the others are not? And why did Goos_2 lie about the fact that I restart 80 times every turn?

[ClaireRedfieldU]

THE HORRIBLE SITUATION HAPPENED, THE RUSSIAN PLAYER WAS REMOVED FROM THE TOURNAMENT AND ACCUSED OF THE VIOLATION OF THE RULES WITHOUT EVIDENCE FROM THE GOOSE_2, OUR PARTY HAS BEEN SHOWN STATISTICS FROM THE GAME SERVER TODAY, WHICH EXCLUDES THE ILLEGAL ACTIONS ON THE SIDE RISHAT. DEPENDENCE OF THE PROGRESS HAPPENS ABSOLUTELY FOR ALL PLAYERS, AND THIS IS THE TECHNICAL PROBLEMS OF THE GAME TANK CORPS.

[AMDonline]

obviously shows that Goose_2 used this time, in order to put pressure on you.

False
i think you are taking this way too seriously and now you jumped to a completely wrong conclusion.

[a432]

I agree with ratprince. 100%

I've never had to reload a turn in this tournament so far. Although in the past, I have experienced the issue of missing the replay and only hearing the sounds. However that is not a good enough reason for anyone to reload their turn in a tournament setting. All you need to do is what ratprince says wait until it is done. Sure you miss seeing the replay but that doesn't matter.

And again what ratpricne says is 100% correct "I am certain with this many players a few might experience pc shut downs, power loss or some other various calamity that causes a reboot. If it is the same player repetitively, logic says that it isn't technical and rather ethical"

Even once reload is a bannable offensive. Especially twice rishat! In addition From the screen shot you post, I see 14-9 so 5 total reloads!
I fully support your ban as you clearly do not mind reloading for an advantage the information you provided shows proof of you cheating as gwaylare points out. 40 seconds is plenty of time to cheat let alone 25 minutes!. Send 2 planes in 2 different directions to reveal location of the enemies defense takes less than 5 seconds.

In addition if you ever have technical difficulties you should tell someone like the tournament director immediately about the problem or else it looks like you are cheating when you talk about it after the fact.

I measured with a stopwatch how much time in Poland there is a reflection of the opponent's move. On average, this is 55 seconds. In order to restart the unsuccessful move, you first have to look at the opponent's move for 55 seconds, make your move, turn off the computer, turn on the computer, download the game and then download it again. On this, even with a very fast computer, it takes not 3-5 minutes to reckon. And if a repeat game is loaded after 40 seconds, it means that 100% takeoff when loading the turn, the opponent's move is not fully finished and there is no need to download the computer again. Unfortunately, I never thought about playing time, and after the flight I could be distracted by my wife, my little daughter, my phone, and the like. And then, after returning a long time, it is impossible to prove there was an evil intention or not. There are very few such large intervals.
My first opponent also had a reboot. And the second button was used to cancel the move. I'm ready to play with them at least three times, with the condition that I do not have a single reboot. But exclude from the tournament due to several technical failures is not fair. At the same time why someone was expelled, and the others are not? And why did Goos_2 lie about the fact that I restart 80 times every turn?

OK I will give you the that the 40-60 seconds intervals of download are likely evidence of technical difficulties. However, you do have multiple points of long intervals like 10 minute or 25 minutes. As you said yourself you cannot prove or disprove your intentions. So very likely you are cheating, all evidence points to cheating not just once but multiple times over two different games. Or you have a very busy life and should not be playing panzer corp tournament games at that time to be distracted for such long times.

Why did you not inform anyone of your technical difficulties until after the fact?

The reason why your opponent was not disqualified is likely because your opponent NEVER had any LONG interval like you have had many times. If you say that 40-60 sec intervals are not enough to prove cheating but 25 minutes are. Your opponent never had such long intervals of time they were all very short.

[a432]

THE HORRIBLE SITUATION HAPPENED, THE RUSSIAN PLAYER WAS REMOVED FROM THE TOURNAMENT AND ACCUSED OF THE VIOLATION OF THE RULES WITHOUT EVIDENCE FROM THE GOOSE_2, OUR PARTY HAS BEEN SHOWN STATISTICS FROM THE GAME SERVER TODAY, WHICH EXCLUDES THE ILLEGAL ACTIONS ON THE SIDE RISHAT. DEPENDENCE OF THE PROGRESS HAPPENS ABSOLUTELY FOR ALL PLAYERS, AND THIS IS THE TECHNICAL PROBLEMS OF THE GAME TANK CORPS.

Are you serious? The evidence proves the opposite that in fact rishat taking multiple illegal actions.

[ClaireRedfieldU]

THE HORRIBLE SITUATION HAPPENED, THE RUSSIAN PLAYER WAS REMOVED FROM THE TOURNAMENT AND ACCUSED OF THE VIOLATION OF THE RULES WITHOUT EVIDENCE FROM THE GOOSE_2, OUR PARTY HAS BEEN SHOWN STATISTICS FROM THE GAME SERVER TODAY, WHICH EXCLUDES THE ILLEGAL ACTIONS ON THE SIDE RISHAT. DEPENDENCE OF THE PROGRESS HAPPENS ABSOLUTELY FOR ALL PLAYERS, AND THIS IS THE TECHNICAL PROBLEMS OF THE GAME TANK CORPS.

Are you serious? The evidence proves the opposite that in fact rishat taking multiple illegal actions.

IT IS FALSE, THINK MEANS ILLEGAL ACTION.

[Parallax]

However, you do have multiple points of long intervals like 10 minute or 25 minutes. As you said yourself you cannot prove or disprove your intentions. So very likely you are cheating, all evidence points to cheating not just once but multiple times over two different games.

Can someone explain me, how exactly he cheat? I don't understand, why 25 minute (even 40 minutes) interval makes him cheater

[Signum]

With all the effort put in organisation of the Tournament and the realisation of Community Activation I see Goose and his Co-workers as highly motivated and not ego driven people.

Therefore I kindly advise all the Players to be realistic and think for themselves according to their experience.


ps
Shoutout to all you Panzer General Players out there

[a432]

Because you can take your entire turn in that long of a time. You only need about 2-3 minutes max to scout the entire map, do all your attacks and see how the dice rolls work. Then you crash the program or unplug your internet and reload the same turn. You now know the position of every enemy unit and the combat results of many initial attacks. So you may then choose different attacks and not get ambushed.

[Parallax]

Because you can take your entire turn in that long of a time. You only need about 2-3 minutes max to scout the entire map, do all your attacks and see how the dice rolls work. Then you crash the program or unplug your internet and reload the same turn. You now know the position of every enemy unit and the combat results of many initial attacks. So you may then choose different attacks and not get ambushed.

Sounds logical, but still doesn't make him cheater. I think we can give him another chance and "cut" his playing time to 5-10 minutes. Also, i think we should use this situation and suggest something to PC2 multiplayer

[ClaireRedfieldU]

Because you can take your entire turn in that long of a time. You only need about 2-3 minutes max to scout the entire map, do all your attacks and see how the dice rolls work. Then you crash the program or unplug your internet and reload the same turn. You now know the position of every enemy unit and the combat results of many initial attacks. So you may then choose different attacks and not get ambushed.

WHERE DO YOU KNOW IT ???

[a432]

Right that fact alone that reloaded the same turn after 20 minutes doesn't make him a cheater but the same is true he cannot prove he didn't cheat. In a case like this you do not assume one is innocent you assume that they are guilty.

If this was only one time instance, OK sure give have another chance but he did this multiple times in many different games. Again another point towards guilty.

[rishat]

Because you can take your entire turn in that long of a time. You only need about 2-3 minutes max to scout the entire map, do all your attacks and see how the dice rolls work. Then you crash the program or unplug your internet and reload the same turn. You now know the position of every enemy unit and the combat results of many initial attacks. So you may then choose different attacks and not get ambushed.

Sounds logical, but still doesn't make him cheater. I think we can give him another chance and "cut" his playing time to 5-10 minutes. Also, i think we should use this situation and suggest something to PC2 multiplayer

Thanks!