"240 BC Grand Campaign"

[76mm]

Indeed, my veteran phalanxes put in a very unimpressive performance--heads have rolled... But I welcome the brave soldiers of Messenia into my victorious army!

I now attack Laconia from Messenia! A hilly battlefield (maybe) awaits--please post the defender and I'll put up a challenge and the password.

[Lysimachos]

Indeed, my veteran phalanxes put in a very unimpressive performance--heads have rolled... But I welcome the brave soldiers of Messenia into my victorious army!

I now attack Laconia from Messenia! A hilly battlefield (maybe) awaits--please post the defender and I'll put up a challenge and the password.

Your opponent will be vakarr

[Lysimachos]

All the players who have built paved roads have collected incomes for 40 talents

[76mm]

Password for vakarr: lacon

[Aryaman]

Challenges created for Varity (Cappadocia vs Pontus) and Aryaman (Galatians vs Seleucids), password gloriouspastures

Sorry, I can´t see your challenge

[Lysimachos]

Ashoka the Great, enlightened ruler of the Mauryan Empire, has welcomed the Arachosian people into his realm where milk flows in the midst of gentle hills, bread grows on every trees and no one suffers hunger or starvation!

(the skill display in the festival of friendship ended with a result of 42% to 2%)

In the splendour of his endless goodness, he has now charged the caravan of the pious and wise men to head again toward the land of Paropamisadae, where mountain folks are waiting words of truthfulness and solace.

(76mm will lead the highlander villains)

[76mm]

(76mm will lead the highlander villains)

OK, will you set up the challenge?

[Lysimachos]

(76mm will lead the highlander villains)

OK, will you set up the challenge?

The challenge is up!
Password: PiousPilgrims

[Lysimachos]

Words have reached Ashoka's the Great pious ears that two warlike and arrogant rulers in the far west, haters of love and mankind, are spreading disorder and grief in their vain and insane lust for power coming from rotten pastures and fruitless sands.

He prays every day the Gods, that are so benevolent toward him, for the restoration of order and security, wishing that the legitmate rulers of that lands and their populace will stand firmly against the greedy invaders!

[devoncop]

Words have reached Ashoka's the Great pious ears that two warlike and arrogant rulers in the far west, haters of love and mankind, are spreading disorder and grief in their vain and insane lust for power coming from rotten pastures and fruitless sands.

He prays every day the Gods, that are so benevolent toward him, for the restoration of order and security, wishing that the legitmate rulers of that lands and their populace will stand firmly against the greedy invaders!

Name names........Who are the guilty?

Ptolemy has always stood firm against such aggression which is why the Eastern expansion of Carthage must be checked.

To try to defend our peace loving peoples a fortification in the newly protected province of Crn will be built. This will be paid for by a tax increase which Ptolemy's grateful populace well understand.......

[Lysimachos]

Name names........Who are the guilty?

Ptolemy has always stood firm against such aggression which is why the Eastern expansion of Carthage must be checked.

Ashoka the Great, Emperor of Tha Mauryans, speaks the language of the initiates.
Who has a rightful heart and open ears will understand, who sleeps in a bed of sins will never but the wrath of God's will be upon him ...

[devoncop]

Name names........Who are the guilty?

Ptolemy has always stood firm against such aggression which is why the Eastern expansion of Carthage must be checked.

Ashoka the Great, Emperor of Tha Mauryans, speaks the language of the initiates.
Who has a rightful heart and open ears will understand, who sleeps in a bed of sins will never but the wrath of God's will be upon him ...

Ptolemy thanks Ashoka for the clarification regarding his accusations..........this will be borne in mind.........

[Lysimachos]

Name names........Who are the guilty?

Ptolemy has always stood firm against such aggression which is why the Eastern expansion of Carthage must be checked.

Ashoka the Great, Emperor of Tha Mauryans, speaks the language of the initiates.
Who has a rightful heart and open ears will understand, who sleeps in a bed of sins will never but the wrath of God's will be upon him ...

Ptolemy thanks Ashoka for the clarification regarding his accusations..........this will be borne in mind.........

If the King of Egypt understands the language of the initiates, as it seems - says Ashoka the Great - there is still hope of peace in the western edge of the world.
Why subduing the naive people of Libya?
Why attacking the lands of the peaceful Republic of Qart Hadasht, full of life and merchants?
Retire your soldiers to their barracks - say the Gods - and let everybody leave in peace.
Who satisfies himself with his properties will live as the happiest man on earth and nothing will upset him!

[devoncop]

Hi

Well I am now 5 or so turns from the designated 16 turn end of my battle with Varity (I have the slow pike heavy Ptolemaics, he the Cavalry and skirmish heavy Carthaginians). To no one's great surprise, least of all mine, he has placed his infantry line near the back of the map around rough terrain. For the first 8 or so turns I have been hit with skirmish and Cavalry attacks causing a 15% or so lead for Carthage. Only now as the battle is ending have my Infantry managed to slog across the map to make contact with the Carthaginian infantry and elephants. The battle is now much more level but to even get here I have had to advance flat out with my Phalanxes ignoring flanks causing many of the earlier losses....

I have given this changed turn limit idea a go but unfortunately it does not in my opinion work at all. A "Grand Campaign" needs to have grand battles which ebb and flow not rapid fire slugfests. The game designers who did extensive playtesting evidently decided 24 turns balanced the chances of skirmish and Pike type armies and that is good enough for me.

As a courtesy I shall finish my game with Varity but will then step back from the campaign. Should you reinstate the original turn limit and start a new campaign and are happy to have me as a player I would of course be really keen to join as I think the map and mechanics are great.

Thanks for all your work with this and good luck to all those players who enjoy the new quicker battles.

Cheers

Ian

[76mm]

I'm also playing two of the short games now. One of them is pretty much as devoncop describes it, except that after 8 turns there have been ZERO casualties as both sides prance around with their skirmishers and one side's main body is on the back map edge; the other one is just getting started, but it appears that both battles will be "decided" on the basis of results among skirmishers alone rather than a clash of the main bodies. In my recently completed game of Macedonia vs Greece (against devoncop) we pretty much went right at each other and the game still lasted 21 turns--and while I ended up with a 16-45 victory, at some points through the middle of the game devoncop was ahead by a few points--it would have been a travesty, deeply unsatisfying, and totally unfun to have stopped the game at 16 turns. This isn't what I signed up for!

While these abbreviated victory conditions might have their own merits as a play style, the fact is that it requires a completely different approach from both tournament and standard MP play (no flanking maneuvers, watch out for skirmisher casualties or lose based on them alone). Honestly, I want (actually, need!) to hone my "mainstream" skills by playing with the standard victory conditions and so if this campaign decides to stick with the abbreviated game I will also need to withdraw to avoid "contamination" of my play style by these non-standard victory conditions.

There have been various other suggestions as to how to fix the "non-fighter" issue without totally abandoning the standard victory conditions, and hopefully those options will be reconsidered.

[Ironclad]

I won't pretend that I've been playing close attention to the "wont fight" debate but the use of these shortened games does not appeal to me.

[Varity]

Hi

Well I am now 5 or so turns from the designated 16 turn end of my battle with Varity (I have the slow pike heavy Ptolemaics, he the Cavalry and skirmish heavy Carthaginians). To no one's great surprise, least of all mine, he has placed his infantry line near the back of the map around rough terrain. For the first 8 or so turns I have been hit with skirmish and Cavalry attacks causing a 15% or so lead for Carthage. Only now as the battle is ending have my Infantry managed to slog across the map to make contact with the Carthaginian infantry and elephants. The battle is now much more level but to even get here I have had to advance flat out with my Phalanxes ignoring flanks causing many of the earlier losses....

I have given this changed turn limit idea a go but unfortunately it does not in my opinion work at all. A "Grand Campaign" needs to have grand battles which ebb and flow not rapid fire slugfests. The game designers who did extensive playtesting evidently decided 24 turns balanced the chances of skirmish and Pike type armies and that is good enough for me.

As a courtesy I shall finish my game with Varity but will then step back from the campaign. Should you reinstate the original turn limit and start a new campaign and are happy to have me as a player I would of course be really keen to join as I think the map and mechanics are great.

Thanks for all your work with this and good luck to all those players who enjoy the new quicker battles.

Cheers

Ian

I agree with the sentiment you express - a grand campaign should give a feel of epic battles where your ideal battle plans are not forcibly curtailed by time pressure. The shorter time allowance has undoubtably limited your choices when making your plans for our engagement and affected your chance for victory.

However, I would like to set the record straight that I did not make any effort to use the shorter game length to my advantage.
I certainly did not place my infantry near the back of the map. I placed it one row behind the forward edge of my deployment zone to allow me to take one or two steps forward on contact without moving into the rough. As it turned out, I had barely enough time to get my cavalry into action before you overran my main line. Under these circumstances, I don't think you can expect me to march my infantry forward to meet yours.

2017-12-15 17-19-46.flv_snapshot_22.21_[2017.12.17_18.51.24].jpg (473.48 KiB) Viewed 2671 times

The time limit turned out not to be of any consequence for the actual game, just for the planning.

Screen_00000130.jpg (734.5 KiB) Viewed 2671 times

I very much enjoyed playing with you and am sad to see you go.

[devoncop]

Likewise Varity. A worthy winner of this battle.

Best of luck for you in the Tournament and in this campaign going forward. I blame the mechanics not my opponent . My concern was that I had to rush forward to get to your line inviting a hail of skirmish fire and inevitable outflanking by your overwhelming cavalry. If I had tried to manoeuvre to protect my flanks I simply would not have reached your infantry line in time.

Still.....we live and learn

Any future campaigns I join will need to have a fixed rule set so I know what I am committed to.

Cheers

Ian

[Lysimachos]

Hi devoncop!
It has obviously never been my intention to stir such strong feelings as yours with a limited change of the rules, moreover stated to last just 20 days in order to have a go at it only in order to see how it worked.
And I'm also quite sure that the aforementioned problem is more of a psycological than factual nature.
Anyway given that also Varity, Ironclad and 76mm seems to express the same strong concerns and disappointment there is no problem in reverting immediately to the new rules, because I definetely prefer to proceed the campaign with the original players - with whom such a nice connection was achieved - rather than substituting them for maintaining in effect a contested rule.
About what to do of the game already played with a 16 turn limit or still ongoing with this rule I remain open to every of your suggestions (remake the games or count them as valid).
Really hope that this statement will solve any problem!

EDIT
"in reverting immediately to the new rules" is obviously to be read "in reverting immediately to the old rules", as it should be clear from the rest of the message

[Trogilus]

The Parthian invasion of Margiana was successful.