Ideas for Panzer Corps 2

[naughtybalrog]

Capture aircraft!

[George_Parr]

I wonder if it might be possible to be able to play as part of a specific army group in the east, on a year-by-year basis, at some point in the future. Sort of a different approach to the Grand Campaign.

E.g. if you choose to be part of Army Group North, you take part on the drive through the Baltic states towards Leningrad, create the encirclement, trying to move further to the northeast to link up with the Finns, then facing the Soviet counter-attack. Next year you are up defending the Demjansk pocket, rebuilding a land-connection to the pocket (from inside or outside) and later on see the back and forth around Leningrad. Then in the following years the retreat from Leningrad, the battles around Narva, the defense against being cut-off from the remaining German forces, and eventually the Courland pocket, perhaps with the choice to have your troops evacuated to fight in Germany itself, or stay there and keep the pocket until the bitter end.

AG Center with the push to towards Moscow, with the help in encircling Kiev and the attempt to take Moscow in 1941. then in 1942 the defensive battles around Rhzev, from the original battles to the summer battles to operation Mars. By 1943 the orderly retreat from the exposed position to free up troops for the battle of Kursk, followed by that battle, and the retreat afterwards. 1944 seeing Bagration and everything that followed, heading into 1945 defending the path to Berlin.

AG South, meanwhile could see the early drive to Crimea and Rostov, including the Soviet-counter attack. Then the following battles on Crimea and into Fall Blau in 1942, with the choice to either take the route towards Stalingrad or into the Caucasus. The former would operate along the Don and either be be cut off at Stalingrad and needing to break out, or support the Don-line and face Little Saturn. While the latter could either form the Kuban bridgehead and defend that position (and later on Crimea) well into 1943, or be part of the attempt to relief the Stalingrad pocket. Then it is time for Kharkov '43 and Kursk, before later on heading into Romania, Hungary, and so on.

You could also include the choice to have your troops transferred between the years, e.g. go from being in the north in 1941 to being part of the southern front in 1942.

This would allow to have both the most important battles of the war, as well as lots of missions that you don't see all that often, because the focus generally happens to be elsewhere.

[Tassadar]

Capture aircraft!

This. Instead of having airplanes fall from the sky upon capturing the only airfiled in range, this would be so much more fun!

[adiekmann]

Capture aircraft!

This. Instead of having airplanes fall from the sky upon capturing the only airfiled in range, this would be so much more fun!

I brought this topic up some months ago and was told it was discussed and vetoed. Not enough enemy aircraft were in fact captured to the point where you could field an entire squadron, nevermind wing. Those samples that were captured largely were used for evaluation. Therefore, it was not implemented.

That's the nuts and bolts of it. Made sense to me so I have dropped the idea since then.

[BaronVonWalrus]

I wonder if it might be possible to be able to play as part of a specific army group in the east, on a year-by-year basis, at some point in the future. Sort of a different approach to the Grand Campaign.

E.g. if you choose to be part of Army Group North, you take part on the drive through the Baltic states towards Leningrad, create the encirclement, trying to move further to the northeast to link up with the Finns, then facing the Soviet counter-attack. Next year you are up defending the Demjansk pocket, rebuilding a land-connection to the pocket (from inside or outside) and later on see the back and forth around Leningrad. Then in the following years the retreat from Leningrad, the battles around Narva, the defense against being cut-off from the remaining German forces, and eventually the Courland pocket, perhaps with the choice to have your troops evacuated to fight in Germany itself, or stay there and keep the pocket until the bitter end.

AG Center with the push to towards Moscow, with the help in encircling Kiev and the attempt to take Moscow in 1941. then in 1942 the defensive battles around Rhzev, from the original battles to the summer battles to operation Mars. By 1943 the orderly retreat from the exposed position to free up troops for the battle of Kursk, followed by that battle, and the retreat afterwards. 1944 seeing Bagration and everything that followed, heading into 1945 defending the path to Berlin.

AG South, meanwhile could see the early drive to Crimea and Rostov, including the Soviet-counter attack. Then the following battles on Crimea and into Fall Blau in 1942, with the choice to either take the route towards Stalingrad or into the Caucasus. The former would operate along the Don and either be be cut off at Stalingrad and needing to break out, or support the Don-line and face Little Saturn. While the latter could either form the Kuban bridgehead and defend that position (and later on Crimea) well into 1943, or be part of the attempt to relief the Stalingrad pocket. Then it is time for Kharkov '43 and Kursk, before later on heading into Romania, Hungary, and so on.

You could also include the choice to have your troops transferred between the years, e.g. go from being in the north in 1941 to being part of the southern front in 1942.

This would allow to have both the most important battles of the war, as well as lots of missions that you don't see all that often, because the focus generally happens to be elsewhere.

Seconded.

I think that the operations by AG North often get overshadowed by the "traditional" set pieces - Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk (and assorted tours around Kharkov).

[Tassadar]

Capture aircraft!

This. Instead of having airplanes fall from the sky upon capturing the only airfiled in range, this would be so much more fun!

I brought this topic up some months ago and was told it was discussed and vetoed. Not enough enemy aircraft were in fact captured to the point where you could field an entire squadron, nevermind wing. Those samples that were captured largely were used for evaluation. Therefore, it was not implemented.

That's the nuts and bolts of it. Made sense to me so I have dropped the idea since then.

Thanks for the insight! I was mostly thinking of it in context of things like the Winter War, where captured equipment was more common, but true enough it did not apply to airplanes too much even then. I guess it's entirely possible to add such units as very specific rewards with the new Commendation Points.

[Kerensky]

Thanks for the insight! I was mostly thinking of it in context of things like the Winter War, where captured equipment was more common, but true enough it did not apply to airplanes too much even then. I guess it's entirely possible to add such units as very specific rewards with the new Commendation Points.

What are some examples of early war aircraft equipment that players would like to get their hands on?
We have our own ideas of course, why not throw some suggestions around.

I'm sure Adolf Galland would be thrilled to actually have a squadron of Spitfires at the player's disposal.
https://youtu.be/hjz8pAGRvsg?t=72

And we revealed Galland's presence in the SCW reveal... plus new systems to dole out equipment and captured stocks of normally un-acquirable units (aircraft)...

[Tassadar]

Thanks for the insight! I was mostly thinking of it in context of things like the Winter War, where captured equipment was more common, but true enough it did not apply to airplanes too much even then. I guess it's entirely possible to add such units as very specific rewards with the new Commendation Points.

What are some examples of early war aircraft equipment that players would like to get their hands on?
We have our own ideas of course, why not throw some suggestions around.

I'm sure Adolf Galland would be thrilled to actually have a squadron of Spitfires at the player's disposal.
https://youtu.be/hjz8pAGRvsg?t=72

And we revealed Galland's presence in the SCW reveal... plus new systems to dole out equipment and captured stocks of normally un-acquirable units (aircraft)...

Early war what comes to mind most are proably I-16 operated by the Nationalists. Later the Finnish air force in the Winter War flew basically everything they could fix due to shortages (again I-16, I-15 and I-153) and later also bombers such as SB-3 in the continuation war.

A curious case can be made for Bf-109 and Do-17 in Yugoslav service. Some were captured, but I could not find information on what happened to them - were they scrapped for parts, sold, or reused on the front.

Another interesting thing - Romanian airforce used interned P.11c fighters and P.37 bombers (a few dozen, so quite a significant number).

Now that I think of it in more detail, the biggest issue here is that most of the captured planes were not actually operated by the nation that did the actual capturing. Germans got hold of quite a decent number M.S.406 for example that got sold to Finland. However, this could present an interesting opportunity. Since we already have enemy units that can appear appear between scenarios and we cooperate with other nations as allies, it could make an interesting case for a situation where captured units could be granted (or even sold) to the other faction as a side objective. For example - we capture an airfield in X amount of turns and get the option to sell some M.S.406 to the Finns for 1941, or force the Polish airforce to be evacuated to Romania, having extra support in Barbarossa. That seems really ambitious with long term planning needed, but one can always dream.

[fluffybunnyuk]

Vickers Vildebeest as a light torpedo bomber. With or without floats. It'd be nice to drop something friendly in the water for those ships off the coast...
Modern at the time faster german and italian fighters are plentiful. I'd like something thats a split between 2 camps. Like a light bomber recon like the Breguet 19. Maybe it could supply the recon bonus in spotter mode, and the light bombing stats in bomber mode reflecting kitting it out for each sortie. In the same way you switch modes between tank and arty on the KV-2.

Just something thats a little different from the mainstream. Useful, quirky, historical, and flexible in function or alot of fun.

[Kerensky]

I thought about giving the player access to I-16s...

But I think they much more appreciate having the HE-112.

I dunno, maybe we can test captured I-16 stock. No promises though.

[Tassadar]

I thought about giving the player access to I-16s...

But I think they much more appreciate having the HE-112.

I dunno, maybe we can test captured I-16 stock. No promises though.

He-112 is indeed 10 times cooler and I am thrilled to try this Rolls-Royce of a fighter out. Bf-109 might be better in terms of stats, but there is something uniquely elegant to the way He-112 looks that immediately catches the eye. Just sharing that captured airplanes insight as a potential source of inspiraton - the Spanish Civil War campagin seems spicy enough that I for sure won't have any regrests if it turns out to be too complex or unbalanced thing to try out. Perhpas in a future campaign the captured plane idea can surface in some way that would be more organic, with more time to implement and figure things out.

[wecker]

Hello,
at Kerensky - by the way I appreciate your nick

Alberto mentioned somewhere we would see at the end of the spanish civil war the clashes between the communist troops and the rest of the republicans.

I remember there were also riots in Barcelona between Anarchists (like the colonna Durutti) and the catalan government. Also many republican militias resisted to be regrouped in a proper republican army under soviet influence.

By the way - in an upcoming DLC for the Soviets you could also start the combat in Spain

Which brings me to a complete other point: as I understood 3 factions can be handled by the games artifical intelligence.

This would open a complete new approach in historic accuracy - lets reminder the switch from Italy under Badoglio could be played out, e.g. the fightings on the island of Kephalonia.

We all know the axis powers like Finland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, the independent State of Croatia, Bulgaria and so on.

Most of them switched sides away from the Germans to the Soviets. Such scenarios could now be possible.

Even more, the civil wars in the Balkans could be portrayed properly - Chetniks, Partisans, croatian Domobrani and Ustashe, slovenian Domobrani, factions in Montenegro and Albania could wage war all against another. But better do not depict the atrocities committed from all sides - they led to the modern civil war in former Yugoslavia.

Suffice to say, that the civil war in Greece started where english troops helped to quell greek unrest in the form of an ELAS uprising in December 1944.

Also to mention the bitter fighting in the western Ukraine between the polish Armia Kraiowa, the UPA and Soviet partisans.

I don`t know - maybe this is of no interest to the broad gamer community.

It may be even disturbing or politically inconvenient to incorporate such scenarios in a popular WW2 setting. Let`s not forget that these tensions and fights can erupt anytime again in eastern europe.

Maybe it is better to forget these things?
Maybe it is better to leave this to the modding community in the future?

What do you think?

[wecker]

Hello,
at Kerensky - by the way I appreciate your nick

Alberto mentioned somewhere we would see at the end of the spanish civil war the clashes between the communist troops and the rest of the republicans.

I remember there were also riots in Barcelona between Anarchists (like the colonna Durutti) and the catalan government. Also many republican militias resisted to be regrouped in a proper republican army under soviet influence.

By the way - in an upcoming DLC for the Soviets you could also start the combat in Spain

Which brings me to a complete other point: as I understood 3 factions can be handled by the games artifical intelligence.

This would open a complete new approach in historic accuracy - lets reminder the switch from Italy under Badoglio could be played out, e.g. the fightings on the island of Kephalonia.

We all know the axis powers like Finland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, the independent State of Croatia, Bulgaria and so on.

Most of them switched sides away from the Germans to the Soviets. Such scenarios could now be possible.

Even more, the civil wars in the Balkans could be portrayed properly - Chetniks, Partisans, croatian Domobrani and Ustashe, slovenian Domobrani, factions in Montenegro and Albania could wage war all against another. But better do not depict the atrocities committed from all sides - they led to the modern civil war in former Yugoslavia.

Suffice to say, that the civil war in Greece started where english troops helped to quell greek unrest in the form of an ELAS uprising in December 1944.

Also to mention the bitter fighting in the western Ukraine between the polish Armia Kraiowa, the UPA and Soviet partisans.

I don`t know - maybe this is of no interest to the broad gamer community.

It may be even disturbing or politically inconvenient to incorporate such scenarios in a popular WW2 setting. Let`s not forget that these tensions and fights can erupt anytime again in eastern europe.

Maybe it is better to forget these things?
Maybe it is better to leave this to the modding community in the future?

What do you think?

[Retributarr]

[Ret:] "wecker":... 'Salutations!'.
[Ret:]These are some of your ideas that I personally like!.

By the way - in an upcoming DLC for "the Soviets you could also start the combat in Spain" [Ret:] The "Soviets" for example seemed to 'Always' insert their 'Fighter-Pilots' into other peoples business affairs!... and who knows what-ever-else!.

Most of them [Ret: Former Axis-Allies] "switched sides away from the Germans to the Soviets". Such scenarios could now be possible.

Even more, "the civil wars in the Balkans" could be portrayed properly - [Ret: "Ok!"... But to what end?... what would the purpose in the Game be for this to take place? ]

Suffice to say, that "the civil war in Greece" started where english troops helped to quell greek unrest in the form of an ELAS uprising in December 1944. [Ret: "Ok!"... But to what end?... what would the purpose in the Game be for this to take place? ]

Also to mention "the bitter fighting in the western Ukraine" between the polish Armia Kraiowa, the UPA and Soviet partisans. [Ret: "Ok!"... But to what end?... what would the purpose in the Game be for this to take place? ]

What do you think?

[ "wecker:" ] (What do you think?)
[Ret:] I think that your-ideas are worth considering!.

[wecker]

Sorry for the double posting - I don`t know how to delete on of the posts.

@Retributarr: Yes - it seems you are right with the critical answer - to what end - for what purpose?

From a gaming point of view pretty nothing. You could not build some core units around these ideas.

I only remember in Open General a short campaign about the Partisans in Yugoslavia.

So this is really special interest for special people like historians or military hardcore buffs.

But we can agree that we could incorporate the side-switching of former axis countries. So far so good.

Have a nice Panzer Corps weekend everybody.

[uzbek2012]

Here I look, it’s going to an addon on the subject of the Spanish Civil War) So the idea is to add armored trains that were there in reality)
https://naukatehnika.com/bronepoezda-is ... ojnyi.html

[Retributarr]

Spanish Armored Trains: From Russian Website.
Mingled with the pictures of 'Trains' are what look like Spanish war posters.

[ADMIRAL3]

Gentlemen I don't want to bother you and agree with many of you, but let me stress a trivial point : THE GAME SOUND !! Absolutely awful and poor despite an excellent background music.
How can one play a 3D war game without the rolling thunder of tanks and with so pitiful battle sounds? You loose the flavour, the essence of any battle fought. After an initial complaint I don't see any real initiative to improve this weakness. Am I wrong ? Next time we can play disney cartoons. LBM

[Retributarr]

"ADMIRAL3 "... 'Join-The-Crowd!'... I myself and many others have voiced very much the same disgust regarding the dismal 'Sound-Quality'... for the 'Units' in the Game!.

The 'Immersion-Level' and relished enjoyment that we seek to capture... by trans-sending into the past... to... in essence... "Time-Travel" as it were to try to 'Re-Live those moments in History' is somewhat sadly diminished by something simple... as "the lack of appropriate Sound-Quality" for the 'Game-Units'... to put us into that surreal WWII "Atmosphere".

[ADMIRAL3]

It seems to me easy to modify sound files. I am unable to do that but someone could do it in the modding section?