Capture prestige boni are much too high....

[gunnergoz]

Clearly there are some real game play experts posting here, revealing how they manage to defeat the game effortlessly by turning game quirks & known exploits into strategies that make it seem the game is too easy, and in their minds, broken. I say this is a skewed perspective and hope the developers weigh the fact that such players are likely a minority and that the majority of players, I suspect, probably find the game challenging, stimulating and entirely playable in its present state. I would argue that most players are casual, beer & pretzel types, not inclined to spend a lot of effort seeking out vulnerabilities & weaknesses in the program that they can then exploit. Certainly it is important to give each forum contribution its due, and I respect the fact that players like this are real pros at what they do, so they are for sure providing a service by reporting what defects they do see. But it is also important to remember that these game pros are probably not representative of most purchasers and players of the game, who in all likelihood never even come to check out these forums. I'm happy to see exploits and bugs removed from a game, but I'd hate to see the developers give inordinate weight to feedback coming from a vocal minority, especially if it were to lead to drastic re-balancing of game components, components that probably work well enough for average players.

[ErissN6]

Yes, and some want to roleplay, not going at all cost in most powerfull features of the game.

[comradep]

Clearly there are some real game play experts posting here, revealing how they manage to defeat the game effortlessly by turning game quirks & known exploits into strategies that make it seem the game is too easy, and in their minds, broken. I say this is a skewed perspective and hope the developers weigh the fact that such players are likely a minority and that the majority of players, I suspect, probably find the game challenging, stimulating and entirely playable in its present state. I would argue that most players are casual, beer & pretzel types, not inclined to spend a lot of effort seeking out vulnerabilities & weaknesses in the program that they can then exploit. Certainly it is important to give each forum contribution its due, and I respect the fact that players like this are real pros at what they do, so they are for sure providing a service by reporting what defects they do see. But it is also important to remember that these game pros are probably not representative of most purchasers and players of the game, who in all likelihood never even come to check out these forums. I'm happy to see exploits and bugs removed from a game, but I'd hate to see the developers give inordinate weight to feedback coming from a vocal minority, especially if it were to lead to drastic re-balancing of game components, components that probably work well enough for average players.

That's a very valid point, and something I'm trying to keep in mind. The majority of the players are not posting on this forum and will presumably not post on any forum/discussion board to begin with.

Just because a mechanic is exploitable under certain circumstances, doesn't automatically mean it has to be removed. Players can also refrain from exploiting that mechanic.

It's the trait and hero synergies that cause most of the unbalancing strategies people post about. Picking one positive trait that gives a clear edge, like Perimeter Control, or one good hero doesn't have as much of a detrimental effect on balance as some of the combinations with multiple traits/heroes.

[sIg3b]

It's the trait and hero synergies that cause most of the unbalancing strategies people post about. Picking one positive trait that gives a clear edge, like Perimeter Control, or one good hero doesn't have as much of a detrimental effect on balance as some of the combinations with multiple traits/heroes.

Likely so, but I don´t see why known combinations detrimental to balance should not be nerfed.

[Kerensky]

Likely so, but I don´t see why known combinations detrimental to balance should not be nerfed.

Your definition of 'detrimental to balance' could be someone else's definition of 'fun'. Some players like to ride the edge of prestige, always on the tip of running completely dry with a few bad counterattacks or setbacks.

Others prefer to not be always starving. They want flexibility to explore sub-optimal unit builds, historical force compositions, and have some cushion against making mistakes. All of these things are not possible when you are red lining your prestige at all times.

The power is in the hands of the player to decide what they want. As we can see from a few AAR threads popping up where players voluntarily opt out of using heroes.

[panzeh]

Yeah, honestly, while I think the prestige printing traits are a bit over the top, they should be powerful, and instead of nerfing them, we should just make more difficulties to make them more challenging.

[Horseman]

I think it's fine as is to be honest.

Having 20k+ prestige is all fine and dandy but in order to earn that amount you're forcing a lot of surrenders. If you're doing that you're probably not eaning as much xp

That might prove to be troubling at some point.

Assuming identical units and traits which is better?

A) 1-2 stars on every unit and 20k+ prestige or

B) 3-4 stars on every unit and 5-10k prestige

The answer to that is subjective. Everyone should be allowed to play the way they like. I like building up xp on my troops whilst keeping a healthy balance of prestige. Others like seeing just how much prestige they can make.

Both (and all) types of players should be able to have fun doing it their way.

[sIg3b]

Both (and all) types of players should be able to have fun doing it their way.

Assuredly not the philosophy of the Wehrmacht or the Red Army. Takes away a lot of the immersion imo.

[sIg3b]

Others prefer to not be always starving. They want flexibility to explore sub-optimal unit builds, historical force compositions, and have some cushion against making mistakes. All of these things are not possible when you are red lining your prestige at all times.

Sure, but why can´t they be bothered to simply play on lower difficulty levels? Why not reserve the highest difficulty for those who want the game to force them to play precise?

[panzeh]

Others prefer to not be always starving. They want flexibility to explore sub-optimal unit builds, historical force compositions, and have some cushion against making mistakes. All of these things are not possible when you are red lining your prestige at all times.

Sure, but why can´t they be bothered to simply play on lower difficulty levels? Why not reserve the highest difficulty for those who want the game to force them to play precise?

Nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play this way. I wouldn't mind seeing a super-generalissimus that hits other forms of prestige gain, too, but i don't want to see the base level prestige hit.

[Horseman]

Others prefer to not be always starving. They want flexibility to explore sub-optimal unit builds, historical force compositions, and have some cushion against making mistakes. All of these things are not possible when you are red lining your prestige at all times.

Sure, but why can´t they be bothered to simply play on lower difficulty levels? Why not reserve the highest difficulty for those who want the game to force them to play precise?

Nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play this way. I wouldn't mind seeing a super-generalissimus that hits other forms of prestige gain, too, but i don't want to see the base level prestige hit.

Agreed. I'm playing generalissimus on my 1st run through and am not focusing on captures (except Kiev - made a chunk of change there!) Mainly trying to balance how much prestige I need against earning xp for my troops. With an end goal of making sure I have enough for the winning the war path.

[o_t_d_x]

Since i am capturing often, i dont have to care about prestige. I even gave elite replacement to auxilarys, because it doesnt matter. Won Moscow 43 in fst. try on field marshal and i dont think that it would be a problem on generalissimus. Liberator and double capture boni, combined with killer anti air makes the game super duper easy. The last trait takes the allied air force out of the game completly. 3 elite 88s kill everything, most of the time the planes dont even dare to attack. And on smaller maps, when you have 2 88s on hills, so they can fire at the same target, they kill them all completly. Anti Air trait is a sure nerf candiat.

From now on these 3 traits are illegal for me.

Very astute observation.

I don't play with Liberator or Trophies. On low difficulty, it's not needed. On high difficulty, it just takes away the whole point of high difficulty...

Try combining your 3 88s with 3 flak-4lings

I tested the flak 4lings, and wasnt impressed. Then i tested the 88s (without Anti Air trait) and wasnt impressed. Seems like anit air without trait is useless and expensive. (88 guns)
Now i have 5 fighter squadrons, which is expensive too, but they do the job, and KILL the enemy.

Regarding capture boni: It should be free to change under options, so everybody is happy.

[nexusno2000]

Aa is completely useless without aa veteran. Utter rubbish. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

[ErissN6]

Assuredly not the philosophy of the Wehrmacht or the Red Army. Takes away a lot of the immersion imo.

Their philosophy is to kill civilians, slavic or freed people (surviving russian partisans were killed by red army), sure it's not the one of the game, so it should take away immersion anyway for you. I'm here to play "cowboy and indians", not to simulate their slaughters of families.

[Horseman]

Assuredly not the philosophy of the Wehrmacht or the Red Army. Takes away a lot of the immersion imo.

Their philosophy is to kill civilians, slavic or freed people (surviving russian partisans were killed by red army), sure it's not the one of the game, so it should take away immersion anyway for you. I'm here to play "cowboy and indians", not to simulate their slaughters of families.

I was assuming that comment was made in jest - sometimes dry humour doesn't translate well in text format

[sIg3b]

Assuredly not the philosophy of the Wehrmacht or the Red Army. Takes away a lot of the immersion imo.

Their philosophy is to kill civilians, slavic or freed people (surviving russian partisans were killed by red army), sure it's not the one of the game, so it should take away immersion anyway for you. I'm here to play "cowboy and indians", not to simulate their slaughters of families.

I was assuming that comment was made in jest - sometimes dry humour doesn't translate well in text format

Your assumption is about 50% correct.
As to the other 50%, WW2 was a life-and-death struggle. "Just do it your way and have fun" is too campy for my taste. ErissN6 got me upside down. Precisely *because* WW2 was a real life horror movie, a game should *not* trivialize the war by treating it as a kind of fun vacation.

[kverdon]

Yes WW2 was a horror but so, in some ways, is the world we live in right now. Yes, I know the history, very well thank you very much, but I also work with a clinical laboratory right now fighting a different kind of war so somedays I just want to end my work day, pick up my Panzer Corps 2 troops with their 20,000 5 star prestige (on general difficulty) and blow some stuff up.

There needs to be room for both. You don’t like it, nerf yourself, there a plenty of General Traits to do that and no-one is forcing you to assign those heroes. Each to his own.

[ErissN6]

because WW2 was a real life horror movie, a game should *not* trivialize the war by treating it as a kind of fun vacation

So, since old Panzer General it was wrong at start, as the game armies were not "in their true philosophy".

[sIg3b]

because WW2 was a real life horror movie, a game should *not* trivialize the war by treating it as a kind of fun vacation

So, since old Panzer General it was wrong at start, as the game armies were not "in their true philosophy".

The old Five-Star-Series from SSI? IIrc, I found the hard difficulty level rather frustrating, so that did fit with a grimdark setting.

[superman81906]

Since i am capturing often, i dont have to care about prestige. I even gave elite replacement to auxilarys, because it doesnt matter. Won Moscow 43 in fst. try on field marshal and i dont think that it would be a problem on generalissimus. Liberator and double capture boni, combined with killer anti air makes the game super duper easy. The last trait takes the allied air force out of the game completly. 3 elite 88s kill everything, most of the time the planes dont even dare to attack. And on smaller maps, when you have 2 88s on hills, so they can fire at the same target, they kill them all completly. Anti Air trait is a sure nerf candiat.

From now on these 3 traits are illegal for me.

Well ya, if you pick all the cheating stuff then you will make the game too easy. Don't act like you are beating the hardest settings legit.