charging into a gully

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:49 am

So if the LF don't shoot at the MF (thus not revealing their position) are the MF able to walk up to the LF and forced to stop at 1MU when they suddenly see the LF?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:59 am

I don't believe shooting is optional which presumably makes this moot. (NB not resolving shooting because it cannot inflict an outcome is not the same thing)

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:09 am

nikgaukroger wrote:I don't believe shooting is optional which presumably makes this moot. (NB not resolving shooting because it cannot inflict an outcome is not the same thing)

No, but Fred the LF with bow is able to shoot further than Michael the LF with javelin, so it's not always going to be moot.

Ian

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:16 am

True, for some reason I read the question as choosing not to shoot

Off the top of my head a short move is short move and the visibility of the enemy is not considered.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:41 am

Going back to the original question, is it actually the case that a charge target has to be visible to the charger ? Is it specified in the rules for charges ?

sagji · Post by **sagji** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:53 am

nikgaukroger wrote:True, for some reason I read the question as choosing not to shoot

Off the top of my head a short move is short move and the visibility of the enemy is not considered.

I agree, but I think there may be an issue.
What if the MF are undrilled Offensive spear. Here they are blocked by the LF untill they either fail a CMT to charge without orders, or pass a CMT to move short. It is even worse if they are HF OS or HF IF, as these won't charge without orders into the gully.

Lycanthropic · Post by **Lycanthropic** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:57 am

Nothing to see here.....move along.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:01 am

Polkovnik wrote:Going back to the original question, is it actually the case that a charge target has to be visible to the charger ? Is it specified in the rules for charges ?

It is - in the declaration of charges bit of the Impact Phase section of the rules IIRC.

EDIT - Checked -page 52 "... there must be a visible enemy base that can be "legally" contacted ...".

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:03 am

sagji wrote: I agree, but I think there may be an issue.
What if the MF are undrilled Offensive spear. Here they are blocked by the LF untill they either fail a CMT to charge without orders, or pass a CMT to move short. It is even worse if they are HF OS or HF IF, as these won't charge without orders into the gully.

Well you move up knowing what may happen so it is a risk you choose to take.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:25 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
sagji wrote: I agree, but I think there may be an issue.
What if the MF are undrilled Offensive spear. Here they are blocked by the LF untill they either fail a CMT to charge without orders, or pass a CMT to move short. It is even worse if they are HF OS or HF IF, as these won't charge without orders into the gully.
Well you move up knowing what may happen so it is a risk you choose to take.

When you are outside 6 MU do a short move so you are a whole number of full moves plus 0.5 MU away from the edge of the gully.

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:27 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
sagji wrote: I agree, but I think there may be an issue.
What if the MF are undrilled Offensive spear. Here they are blocked by the LF untill they either fail a CMT to charge without orders, or pass a CMT to move short. It is even worse if they are HF OS or HF IF, as these won't charge without orders into the gully.
Well you move up knowing what may happen so it is a risk you choose to take.

Especially seeing (unlike SOME rules

) you KNOW that there is something there. SOMETHING. It's one of the following:

1 - Nothing at all - you know that because the gully is empty.
2 - Nothing at all - but you're not sure because there is an ambush marker in there.
3 - A BG of troops - but you don't know what it is because they are hiding behind an ambush marker
4 - EXACTLY what troops you're advancing on because they are on the table.

Really, there is only one example of the above that can prove slightly problematic (or at least catch you with your pants down) and really, you only have yourself to blame.

Ian

bobm · Post by **bobm** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:13 pm

Surely you can advance a "full move"...but such a "full move" has to stop short (by a fraction of a mm) once you see an enemy...it's still your full available move...just not as far as usual.

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:28 am

p37 = both sides MUST shoot with eligible troops, not optional except for the order

As for p132, I don't see how troops which “become visible” can then “become invisible” absent a sudden fog or cloaking spell.

I suppose we can imagine historical stories explaining the MF's hesitant movement toward an ominous gully, but it seems odd.