Good army composition for broken terrain?

Field of Glory: Empires is a grand strategy game in which you will have to move in an intricate and living tapestry of nations and tribes, each one with their distinctive culture.
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Geffalrus
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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Re: Good army composition for broken terrain?

Post by Geffalrus »

shockk wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:25 am The issue is that with limited frontage, having the best unit for the job is the deciding factor in battle, and flanking is to rare to matter. Cavalry in this game is like a jack of all trades, good at nothing and decent at everything. In the battlefield it always better to have other units over cavalry, and its never effective to use them. If there are 2 equal size armies, one planned out, and other other has cav, well the cav army will most likely be at a disadvantage.

The higher move speed is nice, however it only matters in a pure cav army. Now a pure cav army can be very useful, however i expect it mainly to be used in multiplayer only. When playing vs the ai the goal tends to be more of destroying their armies rather then cripple their ability to fight.
Flanking would be better if it worked where if a cavalry unit wins by X margin in the duel, it can then flank a nearby unit. That would be closer to how we use them in FoG2, and ensure that the flanking value actually finds use outside of small scale battles. As shockk says, flanking doesn't happen with large armies because frontage is easy to max out.

Does the pursuit bonus from cavalry apply even if the cavalry are in support or reserve? That's usually where I find value from cavalry.
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Gray Fox
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Re: Good army composition for broken terrain?

Post by Gray Fox »

I fought a lot of battles in beta and light cav were the best support/ranged unit that are generally available. I don't pound nails with a screw-driver. The force structure I used was a line of heavy infantry equal to the frontage, with light cav in equal number and 5-6 units with the besieger trait as needed. The light cav exhausted the enemy and the HI did the rest. I can see the effect. This worked for Rhodus as well as for Rome.

An all cavalry stack gets mauled in combat against infantry. The stirrup doesn't get invented for another half millennium, so cav do not make head on charges. They were used to harass, flank and pursue. I do use a stack of 8 cheap light cav as a garrison for low loyalty regions, because you can shift them around quickly to other regions. However, the decisive role of heavy cavalry holding a place in the front line as shock troops did not exist yet.
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Geffalrus
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:06 pm
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Re: Good army composition for broken terrain?

Post by Geffalrus »

Gray Fox wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:29 pm I fought a lot of battles in beta and light cav were the best support/ranged unit that are generally available. I don't pound nails with a screw-driver. The force structure I used was a line of heavy infantry equal to the frontage, with light cav in equal number and 5-6 units with the besieger trait as needed. The light cav exhausted the enemy and the HI did the rest. I can see the effect. This worked for Rhodus as well as for Rome.

An all cavalry stack gets mauled in combat against infantry. The stirrup doesn't get invented for another half millennium, so cav do not make head on charges. They were used to harass, flank and pursue. I do use a stack of 8 cheap light cav as a garrison for low loyalty regions, because you can shift them around quickly to other regions. However, the decisive role of heavy cavalry holding a place in the front line as shock troops did not exist yet.
I mean, you can believe that, but the numbers don't back that up. Light cavalry have a lower ranged attack value than archers, as well as a lower damage value. So archers will be more likely to damage enemy units during the skirmish phase. Take Regular Foot for example. With a Stamina value of 2, a solid hit from an archer will render them exhausted, while the same hit from light horse will only render them tired. Exhausted provides an additional combat value penalty of -3, beyond the normal penalty to dice minimum that exertion applies. Regular Foot hit by light horse would have a minimum re-roll of 3 and a combat value of 3. Regular foot hit by an archer would have a re-roll of 2 and a combat value of 0. One situation is substantially better than the other.

On top of that, you still have the archers applying a support bonus of +3 instead of the light horse's +2.

Don't get me wrong, light horse is still a great unit, with superior flanking and movement values. But archers are a dedicated ranged unit, and so will be better when it comes to the skirmish phase. And theoretically they're better on defense with a combat value of 3, but that's not something I'd rely on too much outside of broken terrain (especially when you can combine that with something like the Mountainous trait that units like the Lydian Archers have).

As far as heavy cavalry is concerned, you're kind of wrong. Cataphracts were capable of frontal charges against infantry units as early as the Battle of Magnesia. Macedonian heavy cavalry was also plenty aggressive prior to that, which you can read in the sources talking about the deadliness of Macedonian horse against disrupted pikes, or of Pyrrhus getting unhorse charging Spartan infantry. Sending valuable cavalry composed of your elite and best against infantry was still a poor idea, but it wasn't automatically suicide. Cavalry was the decisive factor in many battles of the Hellenistic era in ways that went beyond merely harassment, flanking, and pursuit.
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