Unmovable ships ?

[Athos1660]

@ Cronos09 : Thx a lot for the info !

[rbodleyscott]

The problem is that:

a) we did not implement ship models firing from either broadside - they can shoot from either side, but the smoke will puff out on the side that is implemented, not on the side that is shooting. To make it work on both sides we would have to have implement "turrets", which we did not do.
b) There is no code to take into account wind, currents etc.

So it works OK for galleys, which fired from the front and could largely ignore the wind, but not for sailing ships.

[Athos1660]

@rbodleyscott : Thx for this explanatory reply
It totally makes sense.

Simulating wind, currents, weather gauge, type of ammunition (grape…), sail profiles (fore-and-aft riggers vs square-riggers) in Age of sail turn-based tactical combat game must be indeed challenging !

There are currently some interesting tabletop projects such as the Oak and Iron kickstarter. Hoping some day there’ll be also a video game in the same vein. I don’t know if some kind of simplified implementation is possible in a sequel to P&S. Landing/shore scenarios are so tempting ! How about a system with :
- unmovable sailing ships used as gun batteries (like currently in P&S),
- slowly moving galleys,
- and unarmed troop ‘boats’ sailing at a constant speed (1-2 squares per turn) that turns into soldiers when hitting the coast ?

As for this current thread, my objective was modest : dropping on a map a couple of slowly moving sailing ships as supporting gun batteries in land battles against soldiers, forts and other ships and find out if it was fun. P&S is so great !

Best regards

[Athos1660]

Thanks to Cronos' mod, the first Swedish landing in P&S with movable ships (WIP)



Turn 1

1) The ship shoots :



2) The landing boat approaches the coast :



Turn 2

1) The ship shoots again :



2) The troop disembarks :



... move :



... and shoot :

[Cronos09]

A cool idea, Athos! It reminds me of Panzer Corps landing missions.

[Athos1660]

Thanks, Cronos !

I saw such unit transformation in Order of Battle WWII, also by Slitherine. iirc it is automatic when the unit reaches either a land or a sea square.

Don’t repeat it, right now, the Swedish troops are willing to take a bath and build ships in the middle of the enemy countryside :





And smoke only appears on the left side of the ship type, even though the shooting works on both sides :



No big deal

As a possible project of developing a P&S landing mod, both types of in-game vessel could be used :

• the ship, moving only in deep waters (can’t move in shallows ('waters' in game) because of the size of their hull) slowly moving and used as a shooting platform, their 3D model being the current in-game galleon. Different flag textures depending on the nationality would have to be made.

• the boat used as landing boat bringing troops on shore, able to move in (shallow) water too, moving a bit faster (or not), unable to shoot (or only some %musket at max 4-square range), very vulnerable to enemy cannon balls but a small target. It would need to import a 3D model of a rowboat or a small sailing boat and texture it.

Galleys (able to sail in shallows/'waters') could also be added. And several types of units could land : Skirmishers, P&S, light artillery, even sometimes mounted infantry...

As for scenarios/skirmishes/MP, during P&S timeframe (1494-1700), there are several historical attempts/success of :

• island invasions : invasions of Lérins Islands (1635, 1637), invasion of Martinique (1674)...

• raids on enemy shores

• settlements (and attacks on enemy settlements)

[Athos1660]

In-game ships seem very (too?) vulnerable to the shooting of a single P&S unit, when within shooting range, to the same extent as artillery. The gunners were protected in the hull. And, as the ship had anchored, didn't the sailors of this period already use some kind of barricades, fence or nettings on the upper deck to protect themselves from enemy shooting (some of them also firing muskets) ?

[rbodleyscott]

In-game ships seem very (too?) vulnerable to the shooting of a single P&S unit, when within shooting range, to the same extent as artillery. The gunners were protected in the hull. And, as the ship had anchored, didn't the sailors of this period already use some kind of barricades, fence or nettings on the upper deck to protect themselves from enemy shooting (some of them also firing muskets) ?

Possibly, but why moor within musket range of the shore?

[Athos1660]

In-game ships seem very (too?) vulnerable to the shooting of a single P&S unit, when within shooting range, to the same extent as artillery. The gunners were protected in the hull. And, as the ship had anchored, didn't the sailors of this period already use some kind of barricades, fence or nettings on the upper deck to protect themselves from enemy shooting (some of them also firing muskets) ?

Possibly, but why moor within musket range of the shore?

I guess most of the time attackers' ships wouldn't, unless to get a better angle of fire.

Moreover, barricades, fence or nettings on the upper deck were certainly primarily made for ship vs ship fights and boarding.

But defenders' ships could be docked in ports when the attack occurred, sometimes trapped there by a blockade.
cf. Invasion of Martinique (1674) where the guns of the docked warship participated in repelling the dutch attack.

[Athos1660]

For the fun of it, The Revenge with (painted) arming cloths (or 'fights') made of canvas and obscuring its topsides, in action against a Spanish fort at Smerwick (Ireland) in 1580 (drawn by William Winter who commanded the fleet) :



Source (The National Archives) : https://twitter.com/UkNatArchives/statu ... 50/photo/1

[JohnWise]

Thanks to Cronos' mod, the first Swedish landing in P&S with movable ships (WIP)



Turn 1

1) The ship shoots :



2) The landing boat approaches the coast :



Turn 2

1) The ship shoots again :



2) The troop disembarks :



... move :



... and shoot :

This is a great idea but where would I find the Cronos mod with movable ships and beach landing troops or was this a minor tweak maybe ?

[Athos1660]

I've recently stumbled across a rather simple, fun and flavoured set of rules for 17th-century naval warfare (for sailing vessels) and started (again) dreaming about its adaptation as a mod of P&S or a module of a future P&S2 or a own game.
It'd require taking into account wind, wind changes and initiative though.

[Athos1660]

Discovery I didn't know, the Holigost : https://historicengland.org.uk/whats-ne ... identified

[Athos1660]

I guess the most difficult parts of a naval mod of P&S to code would be :

(1) Simulating the wind
Say a vessel having 5, 6 or 7 AP at start, moving it one square would cost the number of AP (in red on the pic below), depending on the direction of the wind randomly chosen at the start of turn 1 :



(2) Randomly changing the direction of the wind every say 3 turns.
(say 50% chance : non change ; 20% chance : 1 step clockwise ; 20% chance : 1 step counterclockwise ; 5% chance : 2 steps clockwise ; 5% chance : 2 steps counterclockwise )

so that, for example, on turn 3 :