Campaign Editor 7.1.4

[Andy2012]

Alright, guys - turns out DieterPegelow was/is another HBalck account and was swiftly banned. With his trademark mannerisms, he becomes very easy to spot and nuke by now.
Policy is here.
viewtopic.php?f=374&t=77956

[Horst]

Alright, guys - turns out DieterPegelow was/is another HBalck account and was swiftly banned. With his trademark mannerisms, he becomes very easy to spot and nuke by now.

So it's always the dude with the weirdest problems and questions?
I guess I should prepare myself to get banned sooner or later too then.

[GabeKnight]

You sure it's him? If yes, he usually asks a question while pointing out something that doesn't work for real. And he knows his stuff, so I have to assume that there's really something wrong with the cam. editor? I'm not using it myself, maybe Erik/Bruce/terminator can help?

[Andy2012]

@Gabe, Horst: Yep, pretty sure. Double-checked with Slitherine staff and they know their trolls (and him for years).
Strong verbal indicators are there (mannerisms) and a recent account always jumping into very detailed editor stuff right away. And complaining.
He is capable in a technical way, but also, uhm, odd and aggressive. Dont hand out your personal mail or you will get spammed with his stuff.
Right now he is whining on facebook that his mods are superior and you guys and the devs suck. Yep. True story.

[GabeKnight]

Right now he is whining on facebook that his mods are superior and you guys and the devs suck. Yep. True story.

You're right, Michael wrote:

"we overroll the vanilla shit yet and the ass-kisser slitherine forum modders"

Now this I consider personal. And at the same time he's stolen terminator's main screen pics for his profile. Not cool.

[Andy2012]

@Gabe: Yes, he is a special person. But very persistent - he pops up again and again. But he is predictable and quite easy to identify.
Also, the devs apparently began to hardcode him and his mods into each new patch, adding several tripwires. That's why he pops up here after each patch and DLC release to whine and stealthily find out about how to circumvent these countermeasures. And, as you said, he steals intellectual property and is a d*ck in general.

[Admiral_Horthy]

Real problem is that because of him everyone else suck, those who really want to do some stuff with good intent...

[Andy2012]

Real problem is that because of him everyone else suck, those who really want to do some stuff with good intent...

Modding is still possible and encouraged. And you guys dont suck.
Oh yeah, right after banning DieterPegelow, the topics he was pushing here popped up on facebook. Yeah. Also funny: The fake accounts praising his work.
On the one hand, it feels good to be right and spot him instantly. On the other hand, that doorknob is not exactly difficult to figure out. Easy target.

[bru888]

Thanks, Andy.

[VPaulus]

Also, the devs apparently began to hardcode him and his mods into each new patch, adding several tripwires. That's why he pops up here after each patch and DLC release to whine and stealthily find out about how to circumvent these countermeasures.

Actually I don't think we are "hardcoding" or adding tripwires. The issue is that he doesn't know what's doing. The devs don't care about him or his mods. There's no personal vendetta going on.
In spite being a good 3D modeler (although I've to say this is arguable), he just don't know how to program or adapt the editor to his "needs".
I'm sure he's a fine person if you excuse his flawed character.

[Andy2012]

There's no personal vendetta going on.

I'm sure he's a fine person if you excuse his flawed character.

Well, I guess there is a vendetta going on from his side for sure.

Also, "he is a fine person except for his character" is probably one of the most subtle put-downs ever. Nice.

[bru888]

So let's get back to the date functions in the campaign editor.

The scenario date:
1) Does it do anything or is it just for reference?
2) Is it picked up from the scenario settings or must it be entered manually?

The specialisations start date:
1) Does it do anything? I have changed it, saved the campaign, and returned to find the same available specialisations.
2) Is it meant to limit the pool of available specialisations according to the date? If so, it does not seem to be working.

The campaign start and end dates:
1) Do they do anything? Again, I changed them, saved the campaign, and returned to find the same available specialisations.
2) Horst said that the specialisations date and the campaign end date form the boundaries of specialisation availability. Was that speculation or observed effect?

Please inform me, guys. [EDIT: See next post.]

[bru888]

Ah, Horst was right. It's the "window" of specialisations that is controlled by the start date on the Specialisations tab and the end date of the campaign on the Branches tab:

Screenshot 7.jpg (222.18 KiB) Viewed 2729 times

Screenshot 6.jpg (177.15 KiB) Viewed 2729 times

Screenshot 5.jpg (149.2 KiB) Viewed 2729 times

So Horst had already answered most of my questions. Thanks, Horst.

Also, having looked through some other specialisation issue threads, it looks like the scenario date in the campaign editor is now the governor, interacting with dates in specialisations.csv to determine whether and when a specialisation is available. It has to be made available first in the specialisations tab of the campaign editor, that's all.

So here are my remaining questions:

The scenario date on the Branches tab:
1) Does it override the scenarios setting date if there is a conflict or error?
2) Is it picked up from the scenario settings or must it be entered manually?

And the campaign start date (on the Branches tab), does it do anything or is it just for reference?

[Erik2]

Bru

The scenario date on the Branches tab:
1) Does it override the scenarios setting date if there is a conflict or error?

I would rather label this a branch date since there may be several selectable scenarios in one branch with different scenario starting dates.
The scenario date should always be the correct one.
Which of course brings us back to the purpose of the branch date.

[bru888]

I would rather label this a branch date since there may be several selectable scenarios in one branch with different scenario starting dates.
The scenario date should always be the correct one.
Which of course brings us back to the purpose of the branch date.

According to what terminator wrote in the Current Bugs thread, errors in the branch/scenario date in the campaign editor ("44 A.D.") are causing the reported specialisation bugs. The ones he found, Anzio, Market Garden, Antwerp, Calais, are the scenarios that people were complaining about specialisations not being available.

Let's call it branch date, then, but with the thought that it controls specialisation availability from that point on regardless of the scenarios attached to the branch. That probably answers my question about whether it must be entered manually; your point about several selectable scenarios in one branch indicates that it is not directly tied to any scenario.

Allow me to don my Deja Bru personality for just a moment. This process would be so much easier if the person designing the editor would highlight and explain changes. It's as if he was creating this game for himself and his friends and the rest of us can struggle and guess to keep up. Just a few lines in "What's New?" would suffice.

But no. Silence bordering on arrogance instead. And we do the struggling and guessing for him, publishing our theories so that our interest and that of the rest of the community can be maintained to enhance sales. Strange, isn't it?

[GabeKnight]

Allow me to don my Deja Bru personality for just a moment. This process would be so much easier if the person designing the editor would highlight and explain changes. It's as if he was creating this game for himself and his friends and the rest of us can struggle and guess to keep up. Just a few lines in "What's New?" would suffice.

But no. Silence bordering on arrogance instead. And we do the struggling and guessing for him, publishing our theories so that our interest and that of the rest of the community can be maintained to enhance sales. Strange, isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, you know I'm with you on this Bruce, but let's give the "Bug Database" & "future update transparency" thang a chance first... don't you think?

...Hoping for a better world...

[bru888]

Don't get me wrong, you know I'm with you on this Bruce, but let's give the "Bug Database" & "future update transparency" thang a chance first... don't you think?

...Hoping for a better world...

We are in accord about the database, Gabe. Fingers are crossed. But what I said while momentarily succumbing to my Deja Bru personality is not merely related to interaction on bugs. It's about the prime developer communicating with the community on the nature of the game itself which, for whatever reason, ceased a while back.

[bru888]

. . . what I said while momentarily succumbing to my Deja Bru personality . . .

Heh, reverting to my bru888 personality, at least this process has allowed me to communicate and interact with you guys, Gabe, Erik, Horst, terminator, and a bunch of others as we struggle and guess together. That's enjoyable, at least.

[GabeKnight]

It's about the prime developer communicating with the community on the nature of the game itself which, for whatever reason, ceased a while back.

This may sound a bit naive, but how is it with other games, after it's been released for over three years? It's meant as a serious question. My activity here on the forum is quite unique, to be honest, I've never cared about social media much. Also, with most games, I don't ever start them again after the first complete play-through. There's about three games I play regularly, OoB being one of them; also the only one I care enough to mod extensively and participate on a public forum.

With other games, I've noticed a lot of communication with the community during the developent and starting stages of the game, esp. if it's a "Kickstarter" game. But a year and one or two DLCs later? They mostly all answer to game-breaking tech problems, which could have legal ramifications, I guess, but otherwise the devs are usually busy with follow-up projects. I don't know what's the case here, you've been longer with the Slitherine's forum? Is OoB the single only project of the Artistocrats?

[bru888]

If you are into baseball, I could direct you to Out of the Park Developments which is like night and day compared to here. I go way back with them, back to when they were the size of this enterprise here. They grew because they did the right things and were able to greatly improve and expand their products over the years.

Look, Gabe, I don't want to debate this. I've gone on too long already and I've been trying to suppress my evil Deja Bru half. I'll leave you with three things:

1) It's not Slitherine. It's The Artistocrats, in particular the chief honcho. Without Slitherine participating here, it would be much worse.
2) What goes on with other games is immaterial. What makes other games successful is listening to and communicating with their customers.
3) We are merely talking about the barest of minimums:
"Here is a new feature and how it works."
"Oh, I see the trouble. That's a tough/easy one that will take some time / be quick to fix."
"I'm not firmly promising anything, but we should have a patch in X days to address Y issues."

How hard is this? Even if this is just a glorified hobby for a few bucks/euros, they are selling a product for which people are paying money. Folks who see the value in this game, like you and me, are expending a lot of time and effort in it, both for ourselves and our fellow community members.

End of Deja Bru, for now. You may comment further, Gabe, but I don't want to go down there anymore.