Later Crusader - First Time Attempt

[SirGarnet]

The Skirmishers are mainly to interfere with attempts to interfere with your Knights, which can include engaging enemy skirmishers, and shoot their targets to disrupted pre-charge, if possible.

I agree your ally commander is stretched with those knights. Skirmishers place light demands on commanders - they rarely need CMTs so mainly are there to give a +1 on shooting cohesion tests, accompany a BG in the back rank for close combat CTs, or rally troops. I don't include fighting in the front rank since his other duties are usually more important and it normally wouldn't come up anyway.

My guess is you'll probably end up happier with lights than with an extra Kn BG. And you would be better off with all the Kn in the main army rather than an ally.

Looking at the options, consider a Bedouin ally. You can get one BG of archers, LF or MF, average or poor, and a number of mounted with choice of Lancer/Swords in LH at 8 pts or in Cavalry that can be unprotected, protected, or armoured.

L/Sw LH can skirmish and are good LH/LF hunters plus somewhat more threatening if thrown into other troops. The cavalry are shock so can't skirmish, but a BG of the protected ones can be useful for flank/intercept cover for the knights or delivering a disruptive flank charge if you can get it into position. It gets 2 Impact POAs vs. MF in the open, and a + on Impact, though - in Melee against Armoured Ghilman types.

Like any unArmoured cav, it doesn't like to be shot at. At 32 or 36 points though it's not that much more than a single Knight base, and worst case it can shift around giving rear support to your average troops. Since they don't skirmish, one could buy 6 for more weight, at 54 points.

Plus throwing some decorative camels into the Bedouin mix is cool.

Mike

[Omar]

I didnt notice them, wish I had, I can see how that would work out pretty well. LH with Lancer cant skirmish?

We already put in the order, so if he ends up having trouble with the Byzantine allies, I will suggest he pick up Bedouin instead.

[Ghaznavid]

Just noticed that Byzantine Ally is illegal anyway, you may bring 0-4 Latinkon, but you have to include 4 Byzantine Cavalry... average, drilled, armoured Knights? Not what I would want in that army. Actually I think the Syrian Ally would work best (maybe add the Bedouin LH to it as well). I use a Seljuk ally with my Latin Greece and found it works very well. Having some Cv to support the LH is something I found rather useful.

Oh and to answer your question, all LH are Skirmishers so they can skirmish despite the lance (that restriction only applies to lance armed Cv, due to them being shock troops). I do like some shooting capability for my light horse though. One lance, swordsmen LH is ok, but several?

[Omar]

Just noticed that Byzantine Ally is illegal anyway, you may bring 0-4 Latinkon, but you have to include 4 Byzantine Cavalry... average, drilled, armoured Knights? Not what I would want in that army. Actually I think the Syrian Ally would work best (maybe add the Bedouin LH to it as well). I use a Seljuk ally with my Latin Greece and found it works very well. Having some Cv to support the LH is something I found rather useful.

Oh and to answer your question, all LH are Skirmishers so they can skirmish despite the lance (that restriction only applies to lance armed Cv, due to them being shock troops). I do like some shooting capability for my light horse though. One lance, swordsmen LH is ok, but several?

Actually, the list is post-1150, so the Latinikon is mandatory, the Byz Cav is optional. That was the idea, of the two (Syrian/Byzantine) one has units I already need more of (heavily armored knights) as mandatory.

I like the Bedouin as well, but I just dont get any warm fuzzies about the Syrians.

Can you explain the cavalry supporting the knights?

[Ghaznavid]

Gah, missed that 1150 split while glancing over the list... well I blame it on being a late night posting.

As for that Cavalry. It's more like the Cv is supporting the LH in supporting the Knight. It mainly scares away enemy LH or assist your LH vs. enemy Cv. It also lends considerable extra firepower. You can also try to hit enemy flanks (particular after the knights engaged), which LH isn't to useful for, but that tends to require a somewhat cooperative enemy. Granted armoured Cv is a bit pricy for that job, protected would work just as well in most cases, but you can't have everything. And being armoured at least helps if facing enemy Cv.
At any rate I often wish I could upgrade one of the three LH BG's in my Crown of Aragon army to Cv.

[Omar]

So we played last night, and it was as everyone said it would be. The fact that half his army was allies was a big problem for him, and caused a breakdown in his line (we called it half way in due to store closing.. but he was winning when it was called, for what its worth).

So, he decided to go with Bedouin allies and we are going to try and modify the order.


Thanks for the help folks.

[SirGarnet]

So, he decided to go with Bedouin allies and we are going to try and modify the order.

With Bedouins you can throw in some camel mounts for the troops (though they are not camelry) for extra chic!

"Supporting" is their tactical/doctrinal role rather than a technical term like rear support - the supporting troops' mission is to help the Knights do their job. This can include rear supporting them as well as covering their flanks directly with intercept coverage or by threatening potential flankers, shooting the target enemy, or pinning or engaging adjoining enemy to keep them tied up.

One thing I like about FoG is that having a doctrine, troop drill, and some preconceived concepts for battle plans is rewarded much more than in some other games that make it easier to wing it and react on the fly. You can see the long tips post cited below for more on that and other tactical topics which may be a helpful read through.