Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training

[Yrfin]

About Partisan units, I think they DESERVE a special move type, making them fast moving on swamp, mountains, forest, jungle terrains, but not on roads and clear-type terrains (in such terrain types they should move like a regular infantry unit, 3 hexes). Also, the recon move type for such units is a great idea...

Sounds interestingly.
Will be done later.
Type of movement #37 Partisan.

[AnalogGamer]

Sounds interestingly.
Will be done later.
Type of movement #37 Partisan.

Sweet! Russian players will thank you and German players will curse your name.

[Yrfin]

Sounds interestingly.
Will be done later.
Type of movement #37 Partisan.

Sweet! Russian players will thank you and German players will curse your name.

All players will be thanks on me becoz I did PzC World more complicated and interesting

PS. German Volkssturm can use this Type of Movements.

[guille1434]

Volkssturm... I don´t know, but what about the Werwolf (the supposed Nazi guerrilla forces trained to continue the war behind the Allied lines and after the capitulation of German regular forces)?

[Yrfin]

Volkssturm... I don´t know, but what about the Werwolf (the supposed Nazi guerrilla forces trained to continue the war behind the Allied lines and after the capitulation of German regular forces)?

Sure. In my Test Equipment:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 47&t=79363
"Brandenburg.Abt" Unit.
Switchable to Aircraft (Fi 156). Type of Movement "#33 Paratroop".
May be I will be change it to #37 Partisan
.

[AnalogGamer]

I have another question. Looked around and believe that I know the answer, but would like to be sure.

Regarding Gliders -

It seems that gliders must be coded as another form of any unit that I wish to be carried in a glider. One buys them as a glider, then flies them to target and deploys, thus using up the glider forever.

The only unit that I wish to carry is towed 105mm artillery, to augment paras. I want the German player to be able to drop them anywhere with the paras, instead of waiting for someone to take an airstrip or airfield.

However, it looks like they will be stuck on the ground for the rest of the battle, unless I make them air-transportable as well... and load them up at an airstrip.

This means the German player will only get one shot at dropping artillery with paras anywhere he wishes, in the same turn as the para drop..

Can I fix this? Can a unit get another glider, without buying a new glider/unit combo and then flying them out?

I can certainly adapt to this, and am already thinking of how that could be tailored into the overall picture. Initial artillery stays with ground units, while new artillery glides on to next para drop zone.

Am I incorrect in something? Any information or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

[dalfrede]

Regarding Gliders -

Gliders are transport like trains, the scenario designer puts them in, are thus free.

Or unavailable.

If enough gliders are available a unit can fly, land, take off from airfields many times.
Caucasus in AK to transport panzers over the mountains.

Note: only the Germans have heavy gliders that can carry heavy tanks like Panthers.
But since it is incorporated in the Usable Transport column a captured US Panther can use a glider but a lighter Sherman can't.

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks dalfrede, my prior reading led me to believe otherwise.

Another question for those old hands...

Can the "camo" unit trait be made into a hero that can be assigned or earned? It was in Panzer General.

I want to make towed A/T a little more useful. Hiding them seems to be the answer.

If not, that OK. I can just make a camo'ed version of the unit and provide it as an auxiliary, in small amounts.

[McGuba]

Heroes cannot have traits. They can only get bonuses (or negative "bonus") for initiative, attack, defense, spotting, movement or shooting range.

However you can add camo trait to any unit, but bear in mind that they will also remain "invisible" when being moved by their transport for example by a truck or train.

Even then I think it is an acceptable compromise and I did add camo to all towed AT guns in the latest version of the Battlefield mod and it made them significantly more cost effective, so I think it is a good idea to do so. Towed AT guns otherwise do not really worth their value, especially when it comes to using a valuable core unit slot for such and underdog. Thus most players seem to upgrade them to a mobile AT as soon as they can. Which is such a shame as historically towed AT guns were the main enemies of tanks. But the camo trait can nicely simulate the way they were concealed and used to ambush unsuspecting tanks.

[dalfrede]

I want to make towed A/T a little more useful. Hiding them seems to be the answer.

Open General gives towed AT a higher init, le I=9 or higher.
By shooting first they last longer.

Not perfect, but easy to do.

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I agree McGuba. Towed A/T is the backbone of infantry response to armor. It was very prevalent, and S/P was rare in comparison. The ambush factor is exactly what I was thinking of. Initiative is a poor man's substitute, especially when air power is present.

So that is another entire unit class that gets modded. This thing is taking on a life of its own.

Plus I am making new units. Partisans and 120mm mortars.

Here are my plans for the 120s...

Cost - 175. Ammo - 6. Soft - 10. Hard - 5. Naval and Air - 0. ROF - 12(better than 105).

Move - 2. Spot - 1. Range - 2. Init - 2. Ground D - 3. Air D - 8. Close D - 1. Soft target type.

Air-transportable without vehicles. Just like the 75mm.

The higher Ground Defense/Initiative/Close is due to the fact that mortars are quick to deploy and re-target, as well as having good short-range capability and high rate-of-fire. I wouldn't want to charge into 120mm mortars that have their butts on the line. Melt the tubes time.

The combination of 2 move and 2 range makes for some nice options in support of Paras. Which is why they are being designed in the first place. Something feasible to drop with them that can give proper support without a monster glider or unrealistic vehicular support.

Any unit-makers out there that have critiques on those stats would be welcome.

[captainjack]

I think I'd drop the ammo count for the 120mm mortars. You quite rightly give them better move and RoF than equivalent towed guns, but 120mm bombs are heavy, the high ROF means you use them up quickly and you have no equipment to carry them. I'd be thinking 4 ammo - same as the basic paras - would be more appropriate.

On towed AT, camo trait can be effective, but might be a bit over-powerful, especially as the AI isn't smart enough to scout for hidden objects in the way a player can. You could make a case for some lighter guns to have move 2 (French 25 and Pak37 were noted for being relatively manouverable) which allows them to get into combat more easily but that wouldn't help make a PaK40 effetive. I think the best fix would be increase base initiative to represent ability to fire first from cover by maybe 1 for lighter guns (up to 40mm), 2 for mediums and 3 for 75mm plus.
Increasing GD and AD would also help compensate for the fact that entrenchment rates for AT guns are very slow, when it should probably be about as fast as infantry. Maybe +3 for light guns, +2 for mediums and 1 for heavy would make enough difference.

[McGuba]

As far as I understand AnalogGamer works on a multiplayer scenario, so AI behaviour should be irrelevant. Nevertheless I did make some test plays with these towed AT guns with camo versus the AI: in some cases a well placed lone Pak 40 behind a river crossing could indeed halt an AI attempt for several turns, but only until the AI attacked with single units. As soon as it attacked with more than one unit only one of them could be killed in the next human player turn by the AT gun leaving at least one other alive next to it to "report" the position of the towed AT gun which usually resulted in the AI attacking it with air and artillery units in the next turn giving it suppression and making the surviving AI ground unit to destroy or push it back from the river crossing. It also depends on the unit class: most towed AT guns are not so effective against infantry or late-war heavy tanks and ISU-types, these can easily survive an ambush even when crossing a river and again in the next turn the AI usually sends them help once the AT gun remains visible to it.

And it worked both ways: even though I created the scenario I was often surprised by an enemy towed AT gun (as I did not remember all of them and the AI can also move them) which made me more cautious when advancing. So in fact the ever present threat of running into an AT gun ambush had a more negative effect on my morale and tactics than the battle damage that these occasional encounters actually did. Which, I think from both a gameplay and historical perspective, is a good thing, however weird it sounds. In reality, even today it is impossible to completely reconnoitre an area from the air or from a distance and so troops will always advance with due caution and it should be like that in a wargame, too.

And we also tested it in multiplayer scenario and I can tell it was a lot of fun to orchestrate these AT ambushes and it gave some headache to the player on the receiving end - which only made him eager to make revenge and give it back at another occasion, lol. Anyway, I think it gives another depth to the game and in a positive way.

[captainjack]

I think it's a sign of a good design if you get caught out by your own scenarios. One of my best moments was suddenly being attacked by Belgian tanks and tank destroyers in Albert Canal, a few months after I had added them into the equipment file and then forgotten about them.

I often use some element of random deployment for obstacles such as minefields and well entrenched AT guns, so I know they are somewhere around but not quite sure where which keeps me on my toes and makes careful scouting more valuable.

[AnalogGamer]

I think captainjack is correct that the ammo should drop to 4. "Para"ty is best.

And yes, I am working on a multiplayer mod/campaign. Neither the AI nor my scripting skill is up for this particular mission. Too many on-the-fly train/plane/ship destination decisions required.

I am considering making camo A/T guns "nopurchase" units that would be sprinkled in sparingly, like an SE unit. Not quite sure that I want EVERY gun to be hiding that well. Possibly use the initiative boost that has been suggested for all other non-camo A/T guns.

I live to be surprised by my own work. It means I did it right. With multiplayer-only projects, it is almost a guarantee.

Thanks again for the help and input.

[AnalogGamer]

Another basic question...

Used the Easter sale to get PC Gold.

My map came right up in the editor, so that is good.

Are there changes in the editor from vanilla to Gold? Will I blithely wander unaware of something that I could use?

[dalfrede]

Are there changes in the editor from vanilla to Gold? Will I blithely wander unaware of something that I could use?

The editor is the editor.

Gold is the 'I want it all' bundle.
All the DLCs, all the campaigns.

Copied from a VPaulus post:

Panzer Corps Wehrmacht
Grand Campaign '39
Grand Campaign '40
Grand Campaign '41
Grand Campaign '42
Grand Campaign '43 East
Grand Campaign '44 East
Grand Campaign '45 East
Grand Campaign '42-'43 West
Grand Campaign '44 West
Grand Campaign '45 West
Operation Sea Lion
U.S. Corps '42
U.S. Corps '43
U.S. Corps 1944-1945
Afrika Korps
Allied Corps
Soviet Corps

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks for the info dalfrede.

Here is another newb question.

Can I give the "Pumping Station" unit the ability to generate income? I was thinking of 5 prestige per-turn per-unit, as long as they are alive.

No one captures oil fields. They always get destroyed and that has immediate costs for the defender.

At the same time I didn't want the defender just disbanding them, denying the chance for the attacker to get them. They define a resource zone for bonus prestige upon occupation.

Unless there is a way to transfer the modified pumping station .png that I have into a terrain overlay, I am stuck making it an owned unit. So it may has well have a reason to stay on the map.

Possibly some script to check for survival?

[dalfrede]

Can I give the "Pumping Station" unit the ability to generate income? I was thinking of 5 prestige per-turn per-unit, as long as they are alive.

You can add a script in the Scenario Params . It would look for units in a zone, and add prestige.
Set run count to 99. There a number of options for identifying such units.

I have not tried this, I looked in the Battlefield Europe mod [Kusrk scenario].

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks dalfrede. I am looking into various scripting options now. I will have it check for population per turn and reward accordingly.

Ran into another bit of confusion regarding movement.

Was looking at the movement tables, and saw that there is a difference between river and river "feature". Like the difference between moving and not. DOH!

I presumed that the "feature" "underlay" was just for designer assistance in looking at major things without clutter. Oops.

So, unless I am reading this incorrectly, I am going to have to go erase a LOT of underlayment of river and major river "feature".

I was confused as to how to make a river "impassable", and now I know. Significant parts of my river systems are designed to be impassable, so that helps in a backhand way.