Andy2012 wrote:@Erik: Cheated through Crete with #igotnukes, still minor victory. Is that correct?
Also, would prefer if I could deploy my paras in Minsk right from the start (let them start in the plane, not next to the airfield).
Also, briefings dont fit the OoB screen after Crete. Minor thing.
Keep up the great work.
I think you only get a minor victory by default using the nuke cheat.
Did you purchase paras for Minsk? The only way to have them start in their Ju52s is by setting up a trigger in the editor.
yes, there are probably a few scenario and victory briefings that don't fit. I have asked for a scroll bar in those screens.
Yeah, purchased paras because I thought they can fly ahead and knock out airfields. Saw this in a walkthrough video on youtube. Ulver Gaming and Elverking Studio are his usernames - Danish dude playing Panzercorps. Dont understand a single word (all I hear is Muppet Show's Swedish Chef, Borkbork... ), but useful. Still doesnt seem to work that way. Will report back on this. Doing your new Crete version now.
Erik wrote:Updated campaign with a totally revised Crete scenario.
Note that the Allies start first. Most of the ground troops are using a 'local defense' script with a 5-hex radius. This to create some random defense unit placements at start.
Played five turns, works a lot better now. Soo much Luftwaffe. Thanks for your efforts.
Still a few points:
1. Around Buttercup AF, the enemy is way too strong and my forces are too weak. Three paras and whatever Luftwaffe I deploy are not cutting it. Especially with RAF swarming in around Turn 5. AA in the red and light arty in the red are useless.
2. Generally (around Buttercup AF, too), the major problem is supply. This is made worse by the support units which are supposed to help me. Everybody is in the red, cannot reinforce or make a dent in the enemy. The supply in the deployment areas where they show up or my paras land should be increased. I know, this is supposed to be a race against time before my para's ammo runs out (historically, this was always the problem with paradrops behind enemy lines). But it is just not really working this way in a gameplay sense. Also, maybe add another supply ship?
3. I would reduce the amount of units directly around the airfields for balancing and reduce the amount of turns. Those superlong missions were always a pain for me, 30-35 turns max is good. But those are just my tastes.
@Erik: Played a few more turns in Crete. Waaayyy too many units around - both on my side and on the enemy's. I think the way the mission is right now, it is not a tactical, swift strike as it ideally should have been. Rather, it is an overcrowded slogfest: It feels like half the Luftwaffe, the Royal Navy and ANZAC squeezed into Crete. I am not writing this to be mean, I appreciate everything you do around here. You are still awesome. But Crete is just crowded like a rock festival now and my core units are in the mosh pit. Less is more, sometimes.
I would suggest the following: Massively reduce units on both sides. Have some paras start on the ground, increase the town's supplies around their starting positions massively. This way, my support units are actually useful. Also have viable landing areas for my naval force. Make the mission waaayyy shorter, around 25 turns. Right now, this is just plowing through reams and reams of enemy lines, never an end in sight. Slogkrieg, kind of.
@Erik: Sorry, but I am giving up on this version, too. Around Turn 10, I sent my floatplane recon to the southeast and the Royal Navy had a carrier, 6 cruisers, two battleships moving into position. Plus 4-5 from the west and northeast each. My bombers dont make a dent in them. Sorry, but this is botched again, unwinnable. I tried to move my infantry through Crete, slow-mo. I was getting places, but the pace was so slow and frustrating and the map so overcrowded with units in some areas and too few in others (especially around Buttercup AF) that this was not fun at all. The idea that I might have to endure this for another 38 turns was just too much. And the map crashed, btw. I guess there are just too many units on it. Will cheat again and try my best in Russia. Suggestion: Cut out the Royal Navy, Coastal Batteries, those tons of units the enemy has and the resupplies he gets (or give me some more supply) and let some paras start on the ground. And the mountaineers and support units just make this worse, cut them down, too. Crete right now is just overcrowded with units, objectives, triggers and shenanigans. Give me some room to breathe. Did you actually manage to win this once?
Currently Crete is using mostly battalion sized units.
Going to regimental means reducing units to about 1/3, that will be far to few on the large map. Maleme is the only sector that is crowded, this is where most of the Allied units were stationed and the Germans committed most of their Fallschirmjägers.
What I could do is combine the support units on both sides; AA, Flak, tanks, converted art to inf-units, Greek units (they were very under-strength) and maybe some more.
Most opf these iunits are at Maleme, so that should help. I'll look into it.
When an airfield is captured, 10 supply is added to all surrounding hexes. This is to simulate Luftwaffe supply transports. I could increase this to 20 supply.
I already increased supply in all villages from 3 to 5, but that of course means the Germans need to actually capture them.
Remember, Crete was not a swift strike. The Germans really struggled on the ground. 'Half' of Luftwaffe was present along with most of the Royal Navy Mediterranean fleet.
Each Luftwaffe unit represent about 13 aircraft, similar to the Allied squadron.
Thanks for reporting back.
Edit: Have reduced the number of land units a bit on each side. Links updated.
BTW, I can't do much about the poor German air units' stats re naval attacks. I hope the launch of the Kriegsmarine campaign will rectify these.
It is frustrating when only the Stuka is able to scratch the paint off RN vessels.
So, there is no fault with the scenario IMO, not regarding the air vs ship combat anyway.
Erik wrote:Currently Crete is using mostly battalion sized units.
Going to regimental means reducing units to about 1/3, that will be far to few on the large map. Maleme is the only sector that is crowded, this is where most of the Allied units were stationed and the Germans committed most of their Fallschirmjägers.
What I could do is combine the support units on both sides; AA, Flak, tanks, converted art to inf-units, Greek units (they were very under-strength) and maybe some more.
Most opf these iunits are at Maleme, so that should help. I'll look into it.
When an airfield is captured, 10 supply is added to all surrounding hexes. This is to simulate Luftwaffe supply transports. I could increase this to 20 supply.
I already increased supply in all villages from 3 to 5, but that of course means the Germans need to actually capture them.
Remember, Crete was not a swift strike. The Germans really struggled on the ground. 'Half' of Luftwaffe was present along with most of the Royal Navy Mediterranean fleet.
Each Luftwaffe unit represent about 13 aircraft, similar to the Allied squadron.
Thanks for reporting back.
Edit: Have reduced the number of land units a bit on each side. Links updated.
Well, my flu is gone, so will go back to work soon. Wont be able to test and post that much.
But some points:
1. A large map and few units does not have to be bad.
2. Maleme is crowded, but so are all other sectors except for Buttercup AF.
3. I captured the villages and airfields, but two or three turns waiting for supply to kick in is not that much fun.
4. Gameplay is more important than historical correctness. I mean, with all these air units and Royal Navy, it really taxes the OoB engine and already made it crash on my desktop (which is pretty powerful). I mean, you dont need to plaster units all over the island, just around the major towns and objectives and the airfields.
Erik wrote:BTW, I can't do much about the poor German air units' stats re naval attacks. I hope the launch of the Kriegsmarine campaign will rectify these.
It is frustrating when only the Stuka is able to scratch the paint off RN vessels.
So, there is no fault with the scenario IMO, not regarding the air vs ship combat anyway.
Agree, the ball is the dev's court to correct this. However, you could just reduce the RN presence.
Another thing - in Russia, you get an aux heavy mortar to knock out Brest fortress. Doesnt have a transport, which makes it mostly useless. I know, in Panzercorps, you get that Karl mortar unique aux unit. But that does not exist in OoB and when I got it around turn 5 (?), I was already past Brest with my tanks. You might want to tweak this one (add transport, leave it out, tweak stats...).
Also, you might want to add in the briefing that exactly around turn 9, the Russian airforce begins to scramble. Kind of gives you an idea how many turns you have left.
@Erik: I tried 11 turns in Minsk now. This is a lot more fun than Crete, but I still think you seriously need to tweak this one, too.
My observations:
1. Generally, as in Crete, the AI (Russians here) is too powerful. It has too many units and I have too few. I can keep them at bay, but I cant meet my time schedule.
2. Without transport, the heavy mortar you get as an aux unit is useless. Dont need it this way.
3. The secondary "knock out Russian airports" needs to modified, too. The idea is great, the devs had it in Blitzkrieg, too. However, the Russians are too powerful. They have waaayyy too many airports and I do not get enough air supply to get there and knock them all out before turn 9. (Should announce which turn in the briefing, too.) Suggestion: Reduce to three airports close to the front. Or better yet, do it as in Blitzkrieg: Let me knock out the hangared planes instead of the airport. This works a lot better, the airports are quite sturdy: Right now, I had two FW 190s, rest Stukas (five, I think). They were not supporting my troops, but rather just going for airports. Even with all them concentrated on this job, there were still four airports left on Turn 9. Also had my infantry and tanks prioritising airports over everything else - still no chance.
4. I get too few air supply - and too few land supply. Either cut the Russians down or give me more supply. Cant hunt the Russian tanks in the southern flank / protect the southern flank and still be in Minsk around Turn 15. All under air pressure, too.
5. Add a paved road between the objectives, not just a railway link. Helps for that Blitzkrieg tactic. And is also realistic.
Summed up: Fun, but kind of impossible to win in a straightforward manner. (Or am I missing things?) This is no way as frustrating as Crete, but some alterations are definitely needed. Most important to me are 1. fewer airports to knock out, 2. fewer tanks for the Russians, 3. paved road to advance along towards Minsk. Another option would be to increase my army as you did in Crete, but that would just again tax the OoB engine to the hilt. 4. Oh yeah, no resources to the AI to reinforce. I mean, I brush them aside, need to push on for my timetable and after 2 turns, they pop up in my flank again and I have no units to cover there.
Still, great work. Looking forward to your comments. (going for the airports with paras doesnt work either)
1) Since these scenarios are (mostly) conversions of the original PzC scenarios I'd like to keep maps, units and victory objectives as close to the originals as possible. But Soviet resources can be reduced to help the Germans. OOB combat algorithms are a bit less destructive than PzC's, which is a good thing but tend to leave surviving 1-2 strength enemy units that should be eliminated. otherwise they'll return and bite your ass.
2) I'll add a transport to th heavy mortar, that's an oversight.
3) I'll see if I can change this to 'knock out a certain number of hangared air units'. I'll check the briefing/objective rewards/notes.
4) Normally players complain about too many German resources, nice change . I'll add some more income.
5) I'll add dirt roads between objectives that need them.
Reduced Soviet resource income by half.
Increased German resource income by half.
Added 5 turns.
Changed secondary objective from destroying all airstrips to destroying at least 6 Soviet fighter units while their in their hangars. Added briefing in the objective 'reward' field.
Added a dirt road between several towns etc.
1) Since these scenarios are (mostly) conversions of the original PzC scenarios I'd like to keep maps, units and victory objectives as close to the originals as possible. But Soviet resources can be reduced to help the Germans. OOB combat algorithms are a bit less destructive than PzC's, which is a good thing but tend to leave surviving 1-2 strength enemy units that should be eliminated. otherwise they'll return and bite your ass.
2) I'll add a transport to th heavy mortar, that's an oversight.
3) I'll see if I can change this to 'knock out a certain number of hangared air units'. I'll check the briefing/objective rewards/notes.
4) Normally players complain about too many German resources, nice change . I'll add some more income.
5) I'll add dirt roads between objectives that need them.
Thanks for the feedback
Hi, thanks for your quick work. Will check it out ASAP. (Can be a while...)
Your remarks:
1) Can you make routed, low-strength soviet units retreat off the map? That would be awesome and ease the burden.
2) Thanks
3) Yep, that would work a lot better.
4) In Turn 11, I had more than 1200 credits. Thought I might have to save them for later. To be honest, I dont need more income. Rather, less Soviet units on my flanks or their retreat when routed. Still thanks.
5) It would be kind of weird to not have roads leading towards Minsk from Brest, wouldnt it?
Reduced Soviet resource income by half.
Increased German resource income by half.
Added 5 turns.
Changed secondary objective from destroying all airstrips to destroying at least 6 Soviet fighter units while their in their hangars. Added briefing in the objective 'reward' field.
Added a dirt road between several towns etc.
I thought: Maybe my army composition is too low on tanks for this to work? I mean, I have two Stugs as mobile arty, two Panzer III and two Panzer IVs. Rest is light infantry, two engineers, light AT and light arty plus two heavy K18s for the extra kick. Does this mission work better with a tank-heavy core? I kind of kept my OoB Blitzkrieg lessons in the back of my head: Balanced force structure, not just tanks. But the Grand Campaign is explicitly more tank-centered than the rest of Panzercorps. What kind of core did you have in mind?
Oh yeah, there actually is no road between objectives in Panzercorps Minsk. You were right.
The PzC Mibsk used this core OOB, the command points should reflect this.
2 x inf in trucks
3 x hvy inf i htracks
2 x eng in trucks
2 x SdKfz 232
2 x PzKw IIIG
1 x PzKw IVD
2 x PzKw IVF
2 x Panzerjäger 1B
2 x 15cm FH18
1 x Nebelwerfer
1 x 8.8cm Pak
2 x Bf109E
1 x Bf110D
2 x Ju87B
1 x Ju87R (not in the OOB roster)
1 x He111
GiveWarAchance wrote:In Panzercorp, I kinduv remember the roads seem much less useful than in OOB which has realistic road movement. In Pzrcorp, my tanks always left the roads and went on direct routes.
And I feel Panzercorp needs a little heavier tank to infantry ratio than in OOB but I still had about 3 times more infantry units than tanks in PzrCorp but I think I tend to use more infantry than other players.
I will try this Erik campaign too when I get through the original Blitz campaign. Hopefully Andy's suffering & grief will have evolved this campaign into a flawless work of art. I'm so selfish.
Yep, that is true. On flat ground, nothing could stop you in Panzercorps. In OoB, I kind of always push along roads to be fast and keep the enemy off-balance.
Also, in Eriks campaign I feel like more than the tank force I sketched (two Pz IVs, two Pz IIIs, two Stugs) is not possible. At least up until now. In my core, light infantry rules too.
BTW, its okay to be selfish around here. Apart from Erik, who does all the work, we all are. I mean, I whinge and complain and he rewrites everything.
Love that division of labour. (Kidding, Erik. We all love your work.)
), but useful. Still doesnt seem to work that way. Will report back on this. Doing your new Crete version now.
