42 west core choice, what and why would you choose?

[simcc]

Going west? Maybe I should too hahaha it's tempting as US GC is coming.

I do have a question maybe you can share your deployment style. GC 43 above I find it hard to keep up with the soft cap rules as most tanks, planes, artilery are over 400 prestige. Not to mention the red armor which is getting more and more over the campaign so deploying strong tanks is a must do for eg deployment of 30 units scenario how you deploy your force to keep up with soft cap rule?

I am considering of downgrading my special heroes unit to older equipment just to keep up with the soft cap rules as I think with more special attribute they can keep up without the best gear. Also I am considering to disband my 2 SS grenadier and hope I get tanks in future. I have 3 SS Tigers at the moment but against mass russian tank it's a huge risk, a few times I nearly lost them because of counter attack as I get over confident. I am using a lot of stu arty at the moment as they are cheaper than the big toe arty and they can keep up with my armor units. Should I invest more on AT stugs? Seems cheaper than tanks but I hate their spotting limitation and due to this they are very vulnerable to counter attack, I have been losing green AT a lot in the later campaign, I have even reduce my air force fighters to 2-3 per mission and use AA namely 88s are those are very good compensation to control air without much fighters. I usually only deploy around 6 armor including 3 SS just to keep up with the soft cap rules and it's very very hard now hahaha. My 88s are my only saving grace and once the tank soak up the punch 88 will finish the job.

Please share with me how you overcome the soft cap rules and still able to get DV without major lost, I use my AT as cannon folders now.

[captainjack]

The intent of the soft cap is good, but it's hard to understand and has some unwanted side effects (SE infantry anyone?).
You can get good challenge without the side effects:

1) Disable soft cap.
2) Set the prestige slider to below 100%

If it's too hard or too easy, adjust the percentage until it's tough but possible. For me, 85 or 90% is enough to start noticing the reduction, but if you can play on Rommel difficulty (which is currently beyond my skills) you will need it much lower.

The benefit of this is that the challenge is easy to see and is adjustable. You will also rediscover the pleasure of keeping your SE infantry, tac bombers etc rather than discarding them and hoping for tanks. Even a modest reduction in prestige percentage means that the increased cost of high overstrength and the consequence of losing overstrength when upgrading out of class will make you look at ways to keep the Panzer 3s going until the Tiger 2 is available, rather than upgrading to Tiger 1s first.

Fun, clarity and control. A good combination.

[Stephen1024]

Hi Simcc and CaptainJack

I agree with captainjack about sometimes disabling soft cap, adjusting prestige till its difficult for you, its good way practice challenges.

Secondly if your going do soft cap, make sure have couple of pads of paper, your going need it. I trian with soft cap under custom rules choose diffculty and give your self lot prestige. You want between 30-60,000 prestige for safety net by 43.

Tricks I learned that help with soft cap. Firstly build database on paper of units you use and there cost.

Infantry train them hard early war, aim for movement heros where possible, learn use para they often can with Oleh and co have great movement without transport. If those that don't get movement bonus, use truck max.

Arty 10.5 is your best friend in the whole world as he only requires truck and is cheap, add in 1x 17cm k18 to hit hard, I always add in rocket towed arty to help kill infantry. Then a mobile arty group with sturmpanzer, the upgrades for sturmpanzer not to heavy costing.

Strategic bombers are your very best friend to use them lot even early war you want lot training. With soft cap the biggest trick is to learn use arty and air to suppress and then go for surrenders, a) surrenders net you money, b) surrenders are more efficient then killing with weaker core.

SE all tanks, they will become your tigers as they don't count towards soft cap. Your own tanks will become mix panthers and III and IV

Mobile AT units are your new best friend, they are cheaper then tanks, train them well early they will hit hard and if you use them to bring down hit points of big tank and any damage you take cheaper to replace.

Fighters learn to upgrade couple max to best, use older fighters to attack bombers, once fighters done first lot damage kill off with tac Me110/410. In soft cap game I use Rudel as stuka to fast gain experience till 43, then Rudel will be best in Me410, with Rudels stats he actually makes good fighter/bomber can do lot damage in both the air and ground. Air force got be smaller as its very costly, you want strategic bombers 2x for helping create lots surrenders.

I will drop couple units out so if given 32 slots to deploy I deploy 30, I feel 30 units that are highly experienced and got better equipment work better then field extra couple units, having go with weak equipment.

Recon make sure use recon when playing for DV soft cap, you don't want walk into anything you don't know about or expect. Always 2/3rd move it. Recon especially for DV soft cap not about hitting anything, its your eyes and its good for grabbing cities, so your not wasting movement of tanks, infantry etc.

Anti-Air, I personally have 2 88s from very early as there great tank killers and will cover arty from air attacks, later on when they not hitting so hard, I keep best 88 as an 88 and the second unit becomes mobile AA, I do this as way protecting my slow task force most maps I use 2 task forces, the mobile one gets the mobile AA and the slow one gets 88. I keep the best 88 as tank trap as even late war still can take good amount out of a tank, can be life saver.

Other trick is during play throughs try different equipment and find out what the average damage each equipment does. You will learn what units are cheap hit hard, where each peiece of equipment works best etc. Plan upgrade paths for everything. Example with soft cap game I aim always to have my panzer III as N. I know the advantage to Panzer IIIN is very high close combat for tank with Stalingrad other maps in 42 the IIIN is perfect, also good scoring against troops. You don't want waste money pointless upgrades, you just can't afford it. On very challenging maps like Stalingrad deploy lots troops and deploy all possible slots, your going take beating don't make it worse. As for DV get your DV but don't push, not worth gaining couple cities at a cost of more prestige than your going make. During normal run through campaign make notes about each map, is it hard map, what things seemed work best on each map. Use that info plan best deployment/equipment for each map, if you do this you find you can save lot prestige and keep your prestige gains from each map as high as possible (Stalingrad I not going compromise it, so where else can I compromise and make gains to off set for maps like Stalingrad?)

Capture units are great asset, learn to disband all but most useful, you be thankful for prestige. I know that I going need heavy tank or 2 so I always aim keep KV-1B why better then KV-1A but come early enough compared to KV-1C. Early tanks like Char's they are all good to use see what hero they get if not good hero disband for prestige, if gets good hero, your laughing, its free so not cost you to buy train and then sell. KV-1B I keep by that point in war getting bit late to keep trying green units, its costly making repairs during mission and the more green a unit is more damage it will take, so I train up KV-1B hope they get good heroes. SE units late war there going be best tanks so been green not so bad, but try using new green units late as mop up so there not taking lots damage.

Heroes, learn what works best in what equipment. The heroes like Oleh, Rudel etc give them best equipment you can let them lead things, as they got higher stats and with experience they be your shock force, use your other core units as mop up there are exceptions if you get units with really nice heroes they will be part your shock force. Learn group units in to task force based on mobility, have slower force head for hard nut, let them take out that, use mobile forces to pincer and/or to make break outs for far distant targets.

Keep more units then you can ever deploy in any map. Your trying get best hero force with good experience, your not trying build slim super core. Soft cap your wanting maximum flexibility with strategy, your wanting best bonuses, if you get couple bad heroes sell unit off for prestige hence have more then you need to cover for bad heroes. By having such large force maps like Stalingrad you have experienced extra infantry you can use.

Make note the maps that are affected by weather, drop the numbers of air units and increase the arty for those. You can not afford have units doing nothing for large amounts of time, this doesn't mean don't deploy air power means don't put to much out. If you get good window of weather air power can swing DV that might not been possible without.

Most important points are wisdom fight wise not stupid, you and only you will choose if you can win all under the soft cap rules, your not aimming build super infantry unit or super anything, your not trying take every place possible, all matters is good heros good experience not how many kills not how many cities. DV is a DV. Maximum effientcy with min effort is your driving motto. No letting city spam units even if cheap, you can take loses and yes you might replace after that map at cheaper price but every out going less safety net for when the soft cap kicks in.

The whole point is learn play under different challenges soft cap, Rommel etc, it will teach you lot about best ways use things, you slowly realise that after while no matter what you come across you will naturally do best tactics with what you got, that is what your aiming for do without thinking, natural reflex, that will carry over into other parts your life. Maybe you be the next Deducer.

Don't forget check out lots post about things in the forum, people always see things as they choose see it, the more opinions you read more ways seeing will help you more then any one person can.

If you take the challenge of DV every map under soft cap, don't go fast through campaign mix it up bit with a fun play through, DV soft cap is mentally draining so break it up into managable bits, do it when you feel fresh and minds good. DV when tired your going do things badly you can't afford have to many maps cost you prestige cause mind tired or you got problem on your mind, its not efficient.

Most important have fun.

[captainjack]

Stephen 1024,
Your troop selection are very similar to what I am currently using and the reasons are pretty much the same.
The main difference is that without soft cap I usually have a mix of SE and normal tanks and other units rather than all tank SE units.
The 10.5 artillery is probably the most under-rated unit.

[Stephen1024]

Hi CaptainJack

I agree 10.5 not got enough love.

As for SE current play through without soft cap and I got 2 SE infantry (Gebirgsjager) and 4 Tanks (Tigers) 43 East.
My core for 42 West got 2 SE infantry 2 Tanks got choose rest.

[simcc]

Just to add on abit on the tactics as I read all my post and forget to mention that while selecting correct core is important but more important is during battle my style as below

1. Attack to finish it off
Try to plan attack that can kill enemy unit, 1 dead enemy unit is better than 2 wounded enemy unit as you can advance and also don't need to face their reinforcement the AI will bring to their damage unit. Also dead enemy do not see but I am abit unsure on this as sometimes I find the AI can find my para plane even when no other enemy spotted it. Also damage unit without killing means your ammo is not effectively use as you will have to resupplying ammo and still the enemy is standing. Hurts a lot in the long run of the battle.

2. Do not attack of the odds are not in favour
Needless to say getting an enemy unit down to strenght 2 and finish it off cost you 1 dead = don't do it unless you have no other options. Best use recon for finishing as I learn can hit and retreat back. Above GC 43 never assume you are safe there is always a counter attack somewhere. I ve suffer a lot because of this recklessness as I tot my strength 9 can survive counter attack so I chase the enemy down and turns out counter attack always kills it.

3. Try not to chase down enemy planes with enemy AA nearby
I know it's tempting to finish them off but the trade off is never worth it. Just let them return and resupply and reinforce. Side effect it less reinforce unit at last few objective. Planes are very expensive to replace especially elite reinforcement.

4. Never stop an armor in close terrain and infantry at open terrain
After 43, russian can hit really hard a simple mistake will cost a lot of prestige or worst a list of experience unit. Better to be slow than dead.

Thx

[Stephen1024]

Good points Simcc but

Late war better to shoot to damage as many airplanes as possible, as this cause them to disappear and when they return its not so many together. Then you hit each unit to kill. Damaged planes don't do much damage. This especially true in west campaign where allied air is a nightmare.

[goose_2]

1. Attack to finish it off
Try to plan attack that can kill enemy unit, 1 dead enemy unit is better than 2 wounded enemy unit as you can advance and also don't need to face their reinforcement the AI will bring to their damage unit. Also dead enemy do not see but I am abit unsure on this as sometimes I find the AI can find my para plane even when no other enemy spotted it. Also damage unit without killing means your ammo is not effectively use as you will have to resupplying ammo and still the enemy is standing. Hurts a lot in the long run of the battle.

Thx

Thanks for this detailed post which I found I agree with all of it except this part.

In watching Braccada videos I have caught on to the tactic of wounding not always killing, as this makes the enemy need to waste prestige on replacements rather than buying or overstrengthening units.

I also like to wound Conscripts as they are a great way to get your kill count up into the stratosphere as they are so easy to kill and you kill so many of their units.
My SE BA Inf finished 1942 with over 1800 kills, but still no 3rd hero.

However when playing mp kills are extremely important as they are so costly to replace.

Just my 2 cents

[captainjack]

1. Attack to finish it off

Most of the time I agree, but there's a few times when damaging appears to be a better choice.

I'm pretty sure that the AI always uses green reinforcements. Damaging aircraft not only means they fly back for repair so you get a few turns without them, but they often come back with less experience, which can make a useful difference.
However, if you are facing overwhelming odds (Mannerheim in MPC 35 to 39 springs to mind) then you have to kill off aircraft whenever you get the chance as they otherwise cause too much damage.

When defending, it can pay to leave a damaged unit in contact as they don't do you much harm and may act as a barrier to a much more dangerous unit (I'm thinking IS1 being blocked by a 3 strength infantry unit in 43 and 44 East).

[Stephen1024]

For those new to panzer corps if you damage unit and you got only one unit left with move don't hit damaged unit and force retreat, if its not in contact with your force it will fully heal.

You want to leave it in contact stop it fully healing or leave in contact as block between you and enemy good units.

Break this rule to force big enemy units eg IS-2 into close combat ground as there chance the AI will heal unit leave it on close combat hex. Tank in close combat got penalties applied so easier kill.

[simcc]

Thanks for the info Goose and Captainjack, I do agree when dealing with planes that you just force them to run away as I do not bring much fighters in late war after 43 as they are too costly hence I use the tactics you guys are suggesting. In the occasion of killing off unit I wrote is due to my play style as I plan to hit the strongest unit then slowly move to weaker units as in GC 43 above the mass soviet armor always comes first then only their pesky infantry will arrive and I always plan to knock out the pesky mobile AA, follow by recon, then T34 series, KV series then only AT it Artillery. I find that if I don't knock out units and use mass damage instead it's hard to achieve DV as the time frame is small and I would spend too much time reloading. I try to reload as little as I can as I always go for DV and capture every single flag but I have to say sometimes I regret it as the last few flags is always too costly hahaha.

Stephen also brought up the tactic I use hahaha. Always stay close to them so they can't fully heal and you save your ammo for the next attack. I always funnel the enemy into tight packs so I can force them to surrender and deny them the full heal. I use 4 strategy bombers in most games and I find it very usefull to force enemy to surrender and also to strip their ammo. Also those big tanks earn a lot of prestige if they surrender.

[simcc]

Guys I would like to ask your opinion on artilerry piece as well as most of you guys here have great advice. Which artilerry piece is the best and why. I notice all the mobile artillery options after GC 42 have disadvantage and I can't really pick one that I can use effectively. My toe artillery is still 10.5 with over strength of 14 as I find it very good and cheap but mobile artillery piece I find it very hard to choose.

Thx in advance

[goose_2]

I have just started using a couple of StuH42 that I find extremely useful.

I know a lot of people have suggested the Wurfrahmen, but I have found them impossible to keep alive.

[captainjack]

I quite like the Wespe as an upgrade for the 105mm. It has same ROF range and damage, reasonable ammo and is not too expensive. The armour is a bit rubbish, but no worse than the towed gun.

I agree Wurfrahmen is effective but it's very hard to keep alive, I spend about as much time resupplying as firing and it's very expensive for a two-range weapon. Also, though brilliant against soft targets it isn't very good against heavy armour (like most other mobile guns).

For a new unit late on, the Stug IV is very good. Unfortunately you can't convert artillery to a Stug IV, but with 2 range it's quite useful and as artillery it gains experience fast. In an emergency it switches to a passable AT unit, and I'd rate it better than a StuH for that and the 2 range. Plus you can upgrade to an Elefant and repeat the process to give the Elefant some supporting fire.

[simcc]

Wurfrahmen use to be my favorite back in GC 42-43 but on late GC 43-44 it's abit too expensive and you can't overstrength it as it will blow my soft cap. Standing at 510 prestige with +2 overstrength it will be 638 prestige and bombers are attracted to them and even a small damage of -2 strength it's a 128 prestige blow which is a lot hahaha. Not to mention 4 ammo and it needs reload too often as in GC 43-45 there is a lot of counter attack from soviet and I find that there is not enough ammo to keep up.

I like stugs version both AT and Artillery as they have good RoF and any artillery unit with range heroes have been turn to StuH 42 and at strength 12 they can really dish out a lot of damage only at the price of 427 prestige and bombers and fighters seems to ignore them most of the time.

But currently I am looking at mobile artillery with range 3 as my army lack long range mobile artillery and I can't really decide which is better Sig38, Wespe or Hummel. Wespe is cheap and I can over strength it a lot and not blow my soft cap. I assign my army to task force usually consist of 6 units and I average out the cost for soft cap calculating basis. My assault team name task force sturm is facing issue now as they do not have good mobile artillery to cover them when they advance. I use to have Wurfrahmen but in late GC facing a lot of armor Wurfrahmen seems not suitable for the job and using StuH42 I face issue that some position with AA and artillery cover I can't breakthrough fast enough as my artillery is out of range is suppressing their AA hence no air support.

Kinda love and hate the game as it is so hard to master it hahahaha. What's the mobile artillery you guys use on GC 44-45?

[Stephen1024]

I use sig 38t mobile arty got bit more protection and 4 ammo count. I find it not to bad. My only upgrade for sturmpanzer.

I love brumbar their useful takes good beating and not going blow to much of the soft cap. StuH 42 are useful as AT/arty.

Panzerwerfer 42 with 88 behind it for anti infantry on infantry heavy maps. Panzerwerfer 42 has anti-air capability and with 88 take planes out.

Towed arty 10.5 with odd 17, cheaper and don't kill soft cap and will do good supression. 21 cm Nblf for anti infantry. Again always some anti air protection.

[simcc]

Thx for the feedback Stephen, just got my army trash in GC44 Korsun hahaha bring the wrong army to the fight. Lucky I have enough saving (10,2000 prestige), might need to overstrength more unit and won't be able to keep up with the soft cap rules. With lesser unit to field I think overstrength is the only solution for every flag capture style (strangely I still aim for all flag capture, bad idea for GC44-45). Might need to change my artillery to panzerwerfer as I need as much anti air capability as I can as I am fielding very few aircraft from GC44 onwards. Also I have change most of my AT to stug IV for switchable artillery as I think switchable plays very important as they can be multiple role.

StuH42 is also very usefull but without range heroes the role is very limited, with a +1 range hero this unit is very very good and this is the only unit that can keep pace with my panthers and tigers. In GC44 also I find that I need to overstrength my Panthers or else they will need emergency reinforcement in field which is very expensive, strength 12 Panther can hold mass attack while strength 10 Panther simply will fail (really hate those fighters that strip away 1-2 strength). Well I am reorganizing my task force to keep the cost for soft cap rules but I think I will be blowing the soft cap in this campaign.

[captainjack]

I still aim for all flag capture,

When I last played 44 East I only aimed for MV (I had planned to get a DV for Poltava but forgot to check the campaign path and missed it) and would only take extra hexes when I knew there was a capturable unit I wanted and had enough forces to take it without taking excessive risks. Otherwise the return on prestige to repair damaged units was generally not worth it even without soft cap. More importantly, losing a 4* or 5* unit to a counter attack can be catastrophic (especially 4* AA).

[Stephen1024]

Capturing everything way to expensive and risky, I just get job done, and as captainjack said only go for equipment freebies.

You will find that if go for less you make more prestige, that in itself can be used to cover harder parts of each year Korsun been an example the hard part 44.

As for equipment over strength can be useful, but you got to use right thing in the right order, learn to gain surrenders. Strat bombers and arty are very important. If your after tank, hit with arty/air power, first strike Anti-tank like an elephant, then hit with your own tank. If no anti-tank then hit with tiger/tiger2.

Core needs develop from 39 see what heroes you gain and let that shape the development. Learn which maps from which years going be biggest challenges, on those maps forget soft cap.

With soft cap more important have a massive core, I got at least 15 infantry, Stalingrad there useful, but I don't want 15 in most maps. I also got reasonable amount of rocket arty for those types maps, but not much good against tanks. I keep larger then I need tank army as tanks are more useful late war, more anti tank then will deploy for most maps. Extra arty all different types. Lots of tac fighters like Me410.

Yes large core have little less experience then tight smaller core but I get flexibility of choice, having large core gives me benefits of getting more good heroes, that can change whole game. You suddenly get tank take off with amazing heroes he going become every map tank. If unit gets life sucking heroes, don't sell it to fast, might be useful here and their, as its an experienced unit. Don't sell something just cause you can, sell it cause your running short on prestige.

Don't worry about taking everything, don't worry about having units that fought every battle and got this or that.

Yes late war if you got choice example panther A D G 2 of those got anti-air I go for something with anti-air all helping clear skys if AI stupid enough to chase after anything, then going cost AI too. Those lovely 88 you been training since 39 make nice bigger Anti-air units yeah not switchable but it take nice chunk out anything stupid enough to go after your arty. My arty important, so I guard it and guard it well including mobile AA, why mobile AA because I don't want while moving arty that it gets hit by air, cause my 88 or bigger in transport. Yes its one unit less that can kill ground units but my arty probably most important part my core, it and mostly it alone will keep my core intact as it suppresses everything which stops me having 6-1 scores even 1 point off adds up. Can't know if you can use air power to suppress as rain can will spoil lot plans, thats why even early war I go out with less air then lot people. My air never that big, only big enough that I gain the air and will protect my core. If its not raining its bonus I use what I got.

[simcc]

Had to abandon GC44 hahaha US corps is out. I will begin to look into US corp this weekend and maybe we can share tactics and findings hahaha was hoping to seek Stephen, Captainjack, BNC and goose advice. Will you guys be doing US corps?